NSA bugging phones, e-mails, EVERYTHING

Technology. You can't ever put the genie back in the bottle, can you? Quick-firing cannon, and 20,000,000 war dead in the 20th century. IBM Hollerith punched cards, following each Jew into Auschwitz, and every SS-man into Russia. And now computers. And again, always for the best of reasons, as each society sees it, a loss of personal freedom.

This time, the freedom to communicate in privacy. Since 9/11, the FBI with project Echelon, and the NSA with their taps on Verizon and other cellphone companies. And today, it turns out, the NSA's 'Special Source Operations' group running their Prism operation -- harvesting the internet with the cooperation of all the large companies. See NSA slides below, courtesy of the Washington Post.

The numbers are curious. In the US, we have a 50,000/year body count on our highways. And we don't even blink. That's 500,000 dead during the ten years, compared to 6,000 lost in Iraq and Afghanistan. Terrorist-caused deaths during that period, not just here but around the world... what, maybe 4,000? All up, the wars and terrorists combined are only 10% of the car deaths. And we're not even counting civilian deaths by gunfire, about 12,000/year in the USA.

But. All you need is just one stupid bomb, like Boston, or one stupid hatchet murder, like in London recently, to set off this whole industry of counter-terrorism activity. A lot of people are making a living at this. A very good living. And God forbid anybody suggests breaking their rice bowl, by doing the obvious thing of deporting all young men from the Middle East here as visitors or students, and not letting any more enter our countries. And deporting any other people here as visitors or guests who advocate violent social change.

So maybe the takeaway is that the 'war on terror' is actually propping up our economy, during very rough economic times. Somewhat like how the threat from Germany and Japan got our factories working again during the Depression. But maybe the threat this time around is being artificially amplified... again, for all the best of reasons... like jobs and profits?

Jonathon Donahue, San Diego, California

Statistics might seem OK unless either you or one of your family form part of them. Would you have the same view on those statistics if one of your family was blown up by a stupid bomb or hacked to death in a stupid hatchet murder? Would it still be a case of "Ah, that's OK, we're all statistically a lot safer from terrorist deaths than we are from dying on the roads".

Also, I think people do blink at road death figures. Aren't efforts made in your country to try and reduce road deaths? No concern at Government level? I know there is in UK and from what I see/read, there is in yours too. A death for any reason is taken very seriously in UK and always investigated to the full.

Welcome to planet Earth!!!

Mart -- of course any death, from murder, or in a car crash, or war... is terrible. A tragedy. That goes without saying. I'm not trying to minimize the suffering and pain and despair, like of those people recently in Boston and London.

But I AM trying to point out that the probability of dying in a terrorist attack, or for that matter in one of our recent wars, is extremely low. And if we want to reduce the pain and suffering, we should focus on how we kill ourselves the most... like on the highways, and, in my country, by gunfire.

Technology -- because we want the rewards, like being able to drive in a warm little box at 60 mph in a winter rain, we just ignore the downside. Oh well. I guess it's like Jim64 just posted, "Welcome to planet Earth!"

[attention NSA Special Source Operations group, Prism project -- this web post contains contextually sensitive codeword EARTH derived from NSA/CSSM 1-52 TOP SECRET/SI/ORCON//NOFORN]

It's hard do ignore the harsh realities of life my friend.

"So my book was only off by 29 years, big deal" - George Orwell

Though this just now came to light, I'm sure it's been going on Longer Than you would think, Governments are scared of the People.They are addicted to power and will take any steps to keep it. Its like being addicted to a drug, They are drunk from their power and are paranoid they will loose it.

I'm thinking that with some they may have a point

I know that this is an off-topic forum but what I have found is that subjects such as this can lead to some idiotic comments, which can lead to even more idiotic comments and a general feeling of being peeved off at each other, all resulting from having brought politics onto a graphics forum, but that's just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by skech

I know that this is an off-topic forum but what I have found is that subjects such as this can lead to some idiotic comments, which can lead to even more idiotic comments and a general feeling of being peeved off at each other, all resulting from having brought politics onto a graphics forum, but that's just my opinion.

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Agreed Skech

but that's one of the things it is for

TalkGraphics is a graphics forum. And yes, off topic chat is good for off topic things, such as some much of the interesting stuff Paul and Rik post which by and large relate to graphics and science. But this is not the forum for hot button political discussions.

Were it up to me, I would close this thread. But it is not up to me.

Looks like the "the Off topic " thread needs to be Explained better Off topic means just that. It doesn't Say "off topic but with limitations " does it? Though ,I agree Off topic about graphics maybe or a Media type discussion. A little debate is a healthy thing, So far, it has been very Civil.

Personally, I wouldn't have thought that any explanation was needed, that discussing political or religious topics is not recommended.

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Originally Posted by jim64

Looks like the "the Off topic " thread needs to be Explained better Off topic means just that. It doesn't Say "off topic but with limitations " does it?

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Familiarise yourself with the forum guidelines, Jim.
Best policy is to know the rules of the house you're visiting :)

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We ask you to refrain from volatile subjects such as religion or politics and keep the intended spirit of TalkGraphics.com in mind.

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FORUM RULES ► http://www.talkgraphics.com/misc.php?do=showrules

Hey, this one's my fault. Hadn't read the TG forum rules; only saw the 'Computer problems, or landing on Mars. Here you can go off-topic...' at the top of the topic area.

Apologies!

Jon

That's all good, I understand, my mess .Sheesh dude Chill out.

As the Administrator of TalkGraphics I believe that this topic does fall into the "volatile subjects such as religion or politics" category so I am closing this thread.

I believe that this is absolutely a topic that is important to discuss on forums that specialize in privacy or other political matters.

But if you want your your voice and viewpoint on this subject to actually matter, to actually make a difference, you need to contact the representatives and in your local and national government and tell them how you them to handle these privacy and security issues and tell them where you think the balance point between privacy and security should be. Voters can influence public policy in much more direct and measurable ways by communicating directly with representatives rather than hoping that policy makers will read and be persuaded by forum posts.