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CD9 both updates, when I choose color seps the Always Overprint Black is greyed out. I have very close registration for t-shirt and printer has problems with this. Background is black and I need the knockouts so printing diff levels won't work with this one. Any suggestions?
Marie
CD9 both updates, when I choose color seps the Always Overprint Black is greyed out. I have very close registration for t-shirt and printer has problems with this. Background is black and I need the knockouts so printing diff levels won't work with this one. Any suggestions?
Marie
The feature you're trying to use is only available when printing to PostScript printers (as is overprinting on the color level). However, you can still cause overprinting at the object level. (Right-click on the object and select "Overprint Fill" or "Overprint Outline.") Of course, this can take a long time on a complex document.
Or, you can provide a color-separated PostScript print file for outputting at your screen printer or elsewhere. Select "Device Independent PostScript File" from the list of printers and the "Always overprint black" button will be available.
Thank you Ziggy,
The printer needs hard copy so I'll try your suggestions. Fortunately the HP4500 has ps driver included so I'll try that too.
why didn't the 'help' topic tell me it was for ps printers only??? Bummer
But I forgot one other problem. I need to print out the file in 300 or less dpi for the t-shirts. I can do this with HP4 Driver PS? But when I download drvers from hp's site they never seem to install properly anymore. Can't get lower resolutions to print even though I can select 300 or less dpi.
Marie
[This message was edited by inphoenix on October 08, 2000 at 01:32 PM.]
I think you and/or your screen printer are confusing two different terms.
One is the "resolution" at which you print your art. There is only one reason to print at anything less than the highest resolution, and that is to increase the speed at which your laser printer outputs a page. Obviously, this is not an issue here and so you should print at the highest resolution possible.
The other term is "screen frequency," which must be matched to the printing surface, and which is only variable on PostScript printers. For instance, National Geographic magazine is printed at 150 lines per inch on highly coated paper. The sunday morning comics are printed at 85 lines per inch on newsprint. Tee shirts are usually printed at 60 lines per inch on cloth. The frequency goes down as the surface becomes more coarse and therefore more likely to absorb and blur adjacent blobs of ink.
If you DO have a PostScript printer, this latter perameter is controlled globally at File/ Print/ PostScript/ Screen Frequency, and can also be controlled per color and per object (but only on PostScript printers).
Ziggy,
Yes I need to print at the lowest resolution possible for the t-shirt screen printer on hard copy. I've contacted HP and got a 'run around' and finally someone who will research less than 300 DPI printing. I am trying to figure out how to change one object in a color separation printout to the lowest possible (60 dpi) as it is a 40% black and need low resolution. If you can help me with steps to take to accomplish this I would appreciate it. I've selected the object and gone to help re: lpi and am looking at help on 'halftones' that's as far as I've gotten.
20 minutes later - I tried the lpi thingy and took it down to the minimum and still prints out in 600 dpi. I'm so frustrated at this whole mess. HP as much as told me I should not be using a $3000 printer to do such low resolution "Driving a Ferrari to do grocercy shopping" I say the Ferrari should be able to go to the grocery store for what I paid for it!!! So do I have to go out and buy some low resolution post script printer? If so I'll do it if I knew what to buy.
Marie
[This message was edited by inphoenix on October 16, 2000 at 04:01 PM.]
Please look at your last post: You say, "I tried the lpi thingy and took it down to the minimum and still prints out in 600 dpi." In other words, you adjusted the lpi and you're upset that the dpi didn't change. Why should it? It's as if you changed the idle speed on the engine of your mythical Ferrari and are shocked that the number of tires stayed the same!
The core of your confusion lies in the unfortunate fact that discussions of lpi often use the word "dot" to describe those 60 dark blobs in each inch at 60 lpi. (I just checked in the PhotoPaint 9 manual, and they do it in there.)
In a graphic design class, those blobs are not called dots. They're called "half tone cells" and they are very different from the microscopic dots involved in the "dots per inch" measurement. A half tone cell is actually a REGION visable under a loupe in which a cetain number of microscopic dpi-type dots live.
For instance, on a printer printing at 600 dpi and 85 lpi, there will be 600/85=7 dpi-type dots living in each cell horizontally and 7 vertically for a total of 7x7=49 dpi-type dots in the entire cell.
When you look at the array of blobs in a half-tone image, you are actually looking at an array of these cells. A large blob means a large number of microscopic dots are turned on in that cell. (For 50% black in the example above, about 25 of the 49 microscopic dots would be turned on.) A small blob means a small number of microscopic dots are turned on. If no microscopic dots at all are turned on, the cell is white. If all the microscopic dots are turned on in a cell, then that cell is pure black.
Are you beginning to understand? You know that a halftone consists of little spots. But you apparently did NOT know that those spots are THEMSELVES composed of even tinier spots! "Lines per inch" specifies the larger spots, while "dots per inch" specifies the much smaller spots inside them.
Notice how incredibly confusing this whole issue becomes if one starts to use the word "dot" to indicate BOTH the microscopic dpi-type dots and ALSO the much larger half tone cells. It is for this reason that you are confusing dpi (a measure of tiny microscopic dots of which you, Marie, shold always want as many as you can possibly get) and lpi (a measure of the much larger half tone cells of which you want only 60 in each inch on a typical tee shirt, but you want 133 if printing on glossy card stock).
Marie, I have invested quite a bit of time in trying to explain this because this is a very widespread misunderstanding. You are certainly not the only person (or the only visitor to this forum) who suffers from the sort of incredibly unprofessional drivel contained in such documents as Corel's PhotoPaint 9 User Manual.
Indeed, you are to be commended for keeping your cool as well as you have done.
Now, please, so that I won't feel that I've wasted my time, write back and tell me that you understand that lpi and dpi measure two different things, so that it is quite possible for a printed document to have BOTH 1200 dpi AND 60 lpi.
Your screen printer needs you to accomplish 60 lpi, not 60 dpi. I will be happy to help you accomplish 60 lpi, but you will never accomplish 60 dpi and there is no reason why you would want to. It would be like trying to drive on three wheels.
[This message was edited by Ziggy on October 16, 2000 at 08:05 PM.]
I plan on printing that out for use in my Graphics for tech writers class. It is one of the best and clearest explainations I have ever seen.
Now I know why you are a moderator and I'm an observer.
Pat Gibson
You may be in the same boat as I, not all 'post script' printers are capable of changing the LPI. I have an Epson 3000-CPS and have access to all the settings in the print menu to change halftones but still nothing changes on output. I contacted Epson and asked why my injet post script printer could not change LPI and got a royal run-around, they told me I shouldn't be trying to change LPI on a desktop printer and that I needed an image setter to do what I wanted. Funny, my old desktop 300 dpi laser (until it died) would change LPI from 1 to 90. We occasionally need to print seps for T-shirt screen printers so I've learned to fill objects with 'post script' fills that will work within 40 to 55 LPI for the correct dot size for their screens. Lots of trial and error but it can be done. Still waiting on an informed reply from Epson, thanks Ziggy for the in-depth explaination on DPI/LPI.
Larry Elliott.....
Pat... Thank you for the flattery but what I offered up above is merely some of the stuff that a person must know to get a degree in graphic design.
Incidentally, I just checked the manuals for Illustrator, FreeHand, PageMaker, Quark and PhotoShop and believe it or not every one of them uses the term "dot" for both dpi and lpi! Only PhotoShop even mentions halftone cells, and only in the very confusing definition, "Screen frequency: the number of printer dots or halftone cells per inch..." By using the word "dot" in that way, Adobe has succeeded in confusing every novice that reads the manual.
Elliott... Since PostScript fills are another feature unavailable on non-PostScript printers, the fact that you're able to do the one but not the other implies an incorrect setting somewhere. If you like, you could list for me all the settings you're changing and also all the pertinent settings you're leaving alone and I could try analyzing that information.
Ziggy,
You are so wonderful to spend so much time helping me and I feel like such a blob...
I understand the difference between lpi and dpi now but do not understand how this is affecting what I'm trying to accomplish. I was taking a 'shot' at adjusting the 'dot' lpi in the postscript options of a fill and it didn't work at all for me.
My main problem is I'm trying to print a hard copy of a color separation that requires overprinting the black outline. The t-shirt screenprinter has a very old time shop and does not use computers, only hard copy to burn his screens for actual printing. They are complaing that the resolution is too fine for shaded areas (anything less than 100% black) and could I make larger 'dots' for them. Now I know their 'dots' are not what you were talking about in the halftones. I guess I'll not be able to accomplish the required output for them. This is so frustrating. My mythical Ferrari is NO GOOD for me. What a bummer.
if the 'cells' of lpi is less then why don't I see a difference on the printed output? Or have I lost it again? LOL
Marie
Please perform the following test:
1) Draw a rectangle on a new document and give it a fill of 50% CMYK black, no outline. (It's important that you use CMYK black so that there will be only one place to set the line screen.) Do NOT use Pantone Process Black.
2) Go to File/ Print and select the PostScript tab. (If there is no such tab, then you do not have a PostScript printer and you will need to have your file output by someone who does.)
3) Double-click on the Screen Frequency box and enter the number 5
4) Click "Print." Do you get huge halftone cells, about 1/8" across?
If you do, we will move on to test #2.
Ziggy,
Appreciate the offer to help me in trying to change my screen frequency output, I'm usually able to research and conquer problems on my own but this has me puzzled especially after contacting Epson and getting their reply that I could not make these changes. With the Epson 3000 CPS you have to 'print to file' and then send the file to the StylusRip software to spool it to the printer.
Here's the menus and options I have for this printer that are related to screen frequency and angle,
Main print menu I can choose the type printer (printers) I have installed, Epson 3000 (non P.S.), Epson 3000 CPS and a 'device independent P.S. file'. The Epson 3000 CPS is a 'print to file' driver, when this is my default printer I have options for Properties. Under properties I have Paper, Graphics, Device Options, Post Script and Watermarks. Under Graphics I have options to use 'Printer Settings' or 'Use settings Below' (where I can change Screen Frequency and Angle) I make changes to frequency and 'Apply'. Under Post Script menu I can choose PostScript, ADSC, EPS or Archive Format, should I choose other than PostScript?
Now under Main Print Menu I have options for General, Layout, Separations, PrePress, PostScript, Misc. and Issues (conflicts). I choose Seps and have opts for 'Advanced' under this I can choose screening technology for Standard Default, Balanced, RT Screening and HQS Screening. I can highlite a plate color to output and can change the frequency and the angle (I match this to the settings in the 'Graphics' menu I used in the 'Properties' menu). Now under this PostScript menu I can choose either Level 1, 2 or 3. and can choose frequency and angle again, this is set to the same as in the other menus. Hopefully there is an easy answer to this as it is beyond my ability, after changing every setting I still either get default screening or I crash the rip.
Thanks for taking time to look at my problem.
Larry Elliott,,,,,
The Epson "ESR-Stylus RIP," as you probably know, simply converts your entire page to a big bitmap which a non-PS printer can then print, but it purports to do so while reading PostScript instructions. If it works, I would have to classify it as a small miracle. If you want to get discouraged, you can read about how poorly it works for other users at
http://www.driverguide.com/forums/printer/epso/
Do a search on the two words Stylus RIP with the Boolean thingy set to AND, and read some of the dozens of frantic posts.
Other than that, your post doesn't indicate whether you've tried setting the frequency on the object level (using only Pantone colors and the "Options" button at the bottom of the Uniform Fill dialog box). Then, leave every other setting at "default." You can also afix linescreening within Draw as follows: 1) Select an item, 2) Convert to bitmap as grayscale, 3) Change mode to B&W, specifying "halftone," "dot," and "60" per "inch" and the object will become permanently "screened." This latter may impart moray patterns, which are mitigated by varying the screen angle.
Failed... did not get huge thingies,,, but do have a postscript printer.
Marie
Thanks Ziggy for the confirmation on what I had become to take for granted that the Epson 3000 CPS IS NOT a true post script machine. The 'tech' at Epson argued with me that it was but I was just trying to doing something with it that a 'desk top' printer was uncapable of. I've been well pleased with the output of the printer in all other ways, the high res color on good paper rivals that of offset. According to Epson, 'the use of non-Epson inks WILL CAUSE CLOGGING of the heads' and the heads will have to be replaced or sent to factory for repair, B.S., I fell for that while the printer was still under warranty and paid around $60 a cart for their proprietary inks. I've since used 'compatible' inks and have not had a problem and have saved several dollars! Lots of diff when you compare $240 for a set of Epson inks to $80 for the same stuff in a 'plain wrapper'. Makes me wonder if I'll ever buy another Epson product, their tech support is not technical, their ad hype is more like lying and their consumables are WAY over priced.
Larry Elliott...
(As a moderator in this forum I'm becoming an expert in the strangest things.)
Marie, I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but the HP 4500 is NOT a PostScript printer. (I feel like I'm breaking the news to people that there is no Santa Claus.) Instead it is the same thing that Elliott is wrestling with, which is a non-PostScript printer which comes with "PostScript emulation software" which is imperfect, at best. To quote from hp.com:
"The HP Color LaserJet 4500 Family printer will not recognize or accept custom LPI settings. The firmware does not allow for custom LPI/halftone commands. This constraint allows customers to get the best possible print quality in as many different printing scenarios as possible."
In other words, this is a printer that is dedicated to giving you the highest possible quality photographs and it will NOT let you interfere with its divine destiny by lowering the lpi. Obviously, it's rather EVIL on their part to give you places to change these settings and then disregard them, isn't it?
I'm afraid this boils down to the following: If people clammor for a six-legged dog, someone will find a way to manufacture and sell them one, no matter how lousy a pet it turns out to be.
And in this respect, I would answer Elliott's disparagement of Epson by suggesting that HP is swindling people in the exact same way, but doing a rather classier job of helping people feel good about it.
(Did anyone say, Macintosh?)
Ziggy, I know I can always depend on you for the TRUTH! What a shame. I'm so disappointed I could just spit! Well, I'm glad I don't have to bang my head against this printer wall anymore. Thank you so much. Now here's a tricky question:
Can you recommend a printer, not necessarily color but laser that would produce what I am trying to accomplish?
As always most faithfilled in your responses/help
Marie
Marie, until about a month ago, I was happily using the same printer for ten years at home, until my little brother accidently killed it. It was an HP 4MP, which was only 600 dpi but which came with "true Adobe PostScript." So far, I haven't been able to find another HP that makes the same claim (and since my needs have changed, I bought an Epson Stylus for use at home).
I do know that the 4MP was replaced by the 5MP and then the 6MP, but I don't know what replaced the 6MP. The "M" stands for Macintosh because most PostScript printing is done from Macs. To find a true replacement for the 6MP, you may need to be careful and find a Mac-compatible printer.
If you go to hp.com and go to the bottom of their search lists, you will find a designation, "Discontinued Models." If you then look for the 6MP, it says that the 2100se is its replacement. However, the 2100se has the dreaded "PostScript emulation," which, as we all know by now, probably only means partial emulation. You won't know for sure until you get it home, and if you complain about it, they'll tell you that the only way to get true PostScript is with a $50,000 imagesetter, which is (hopefully) nonsense. However, the 2100se is only $700 list and I suspect that true PostScript is going to be at least $1000. My 4MP was $1500 ten years ago.
Incidentally, at work I use the excellent, true-PS 1200 dpi tabloid Xante 8300 (discontinued), as well as an AGFA imagesetter, a Xerox DocuColor and a Xerox Docutech.
Every November, PC Magazine does a printer issue. Since PC Magazine comes out twice a month, it may not be the first issue in November. If you can wait until mid-November to purchase a new printer, you may want to do so. I found the info at pcmag.com kind of unfulfilling, just now, since they don't really cater to people who need PostScript and tend to test printers with MS Word.
I will research this further and let you know what I find. It may be that the recent release of PostScript 3 (which you don't need) has made "true PostScript" no longer available to the masses. If so, you may be able to find a refurbished 6MP somewhere.
Ziggy I'll wait for your research and should I keep checking back to this post?
Marie
Marie, I mis-read something at HP's site. The replacement for the 6MP is the 2100M, not the SE. The good news is that the resolution has gone up from 600 on the 6MP to 1200 on the 2100M. The bad news is that they now qualify their PostScript as being "emulated" rather than "true." (You can still read the specs there on the discontinued 6MP.)
After searching numerous other sites, I have yet to find any other manufacturer selling "true" PostScript in anything less than an imagesetter.
If you have either a computer superstore or a Mac store in the area that sells an HP 2100M, you can probably take a PostScript file in there generated by the Corel "Device Independent File" option and see if it yields varied lpi. Keep the fonts simple.
I've written to Adobe about this issue and I'll post here whatever they tell me.
Marie - maybe a small stone for your/our PS emulation mosaic... I have HP 5000 N for about a year now. It has emulation of PS also and is not able to print at different lpi's - unless I turn off "enhanced" option under greyscale menu (Printer/properties.../). With that option turned off, my HP can print at all lpi's I want, despite PS emulator. This emulator caused big price drop for "PS" (...) printers at HP - Adobe charge about 1000$ for their Postscript rights on every printers sold - so I've heard. My A3+/1200 dpi printer cost me about 2000$ and is well worth it. Do you have that option present in your's printer settings too?
goran
Marie - I have HP 5000 N for about a year now. It has emulation of PS also and is not able to print at different lpi's - unless I turn off "enhanced" option under greyscale menu (Printer/properties.../). With that option turned off, my HP can print at all lpi's I want, despite PS emulator. This emulator caused big price drop for "PS" (...) printers at HP - Adobe charge about 1000$ for their Postscript rights on every printers sold - so I've heard. My A3+/1200 dpi printer cost me about 2000$ and is well worth it. Do you have that option present in your's printer settings too?
goran
FWIW, I am using an off the shelf HP4000SE which supports both Postscript (emulated) and PCL and have had nary a problem setting line screens or anything else Postscript for that matter. It's fast, swallows a whole ream of paper at a clip and doesn't eat toner cartridges like my old HP4M. I love it!
Adobe's response so far is to send me several tech papers. One of them includes the following: "If you are having problems printing to a PostScript-emulation device (e.g., LaserMaster printer, LexMark printer, or newer HP LaserJet black-and-white printers)..."
Notice the use of the word "newer." I think my theory is correct that HP as a company has lost its "true PostScript" compatibility for some strange political reason and should henceforth be stripped of its formerly royal status among graphics professionals.
The question remains: Which other companies, if any, are still worthy of our attention? Since we have two 1200 dpi tabloid-size Xante Accel-A-Writer 8300 printers here that are discontinued but work flawlessly with all sorts of software coming out of several different operating systems, I thought I'd visit their site.
Marie, if you've got $2000, I've got a solution to your problem: The latest version of the 8300 uses true Adobe PostScript and I can highly recommend it, if you can afford it. It's the Accel-A-Writer 3N and it's available at microwarehouse.com. (Or, there's a 600 dpi version for $300 less.)
And I'll keep looking.
(If anyone else out there is happily using a printer with true Adobe PostScript, we would all love to hear from you.)
I will treat my HP 4MP printer with the utmost respect on learning how difficult it would be to replace. I promise to keep it out of drafts, direct sunlight and filter its power supply. The machine cost $2,000CDN 8 years ago and continues to work like a charm.