-
3 Attachment(s)
Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
I've been using Xara X for I don't know how long, but I guess it started around when Windows XP was released and I wanted to do these nice new drawn-with-vector icons. I was introduced to Xara X by a friend, who was a professor in computer science and (like me) impressed by well made small applications.
Xara X enabled me to create icons not only fast and with great ease, but it also enabled me to adjust them with pixel perfect precision and with great control over the outlines and shadows. It was very useful when it came to icon creation.
However, as the computers and software evolved, Xara lagged behind. Inventions like mesh fills, live tracing and live colors (enabling hue shifts etc) made it easier to perform advanced operations, which more suited the more and more complex tasks I received as my work responsibilities was also evolving.
A few years ago Xara added photo editing capabilities, something that will never ever be up to Photoshop's standards, and my tool of choice. Later, Xara added extended page layout editing capabilities, something that will never ever be up to Indesign's standards, which is my tool of choice for that. Now, Xara has added web editing capabilities, something I am not even interested in.
My conclusions are that if I ever need to create a Windows XP icon again, I will turn to Xara. But for all other tasks I have to do, I have better tools and on top of that, I'm a Mac OS X user these days.
So, thank you for these years, but I must reiterate what I said in an old thread I posted: I've moved onto the professional world with large corporate clients, and Xara has remained in the small, hobbyist sphere.
For reference, here is the actual project which made me transition from Xara. The layer palette with the grouping and isolation mode editing made these kinds of mock-ups so much faster to produce with Illustrator:
Attachment 62261
My latest work also could never have been completed in such a fast time using Xara. I had to scan several drawings and composition them together. Done with the live trace and live paint of Illustrator which enabled me to swap colors on the fly and quickly make corrections to my lines with a Wacom tablet:
Attachment 62262
I'll say good bye with this selection of my past Xara work:
Attachment 62263
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
Sorry to see you go but Xara Xtreme is not for everybody.
Good luck.
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
I understand entirely. For many of us, it does seem like Xtreme has been standing still for some time now. Clearly their priorities, for whatever reason, are not what they once were and they have chosen to concentrate on low-to mid-level web capabilities. Those of us who don't use such tools feel somewhat neglected, but we have to live with their decisions, they owe us nothing.
That's life.
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
I totally disagree with your post. It makes no sense. I have been using xara in the commercial industry for years. I love it. Sure it is not photoshop and it is not meant to be, but i can tell you that it is for me better than illustrator.
Xara is a great compliment to adobe products. Professionals use a number of different products to create their work and you really don't make much sense.
The addition of the web features does not take away from what xara already has. Sorry but good luck.
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
" Quand on veut noyer son chien, on dit qu'il a la rage"
Soit Photoshop est hautement supérieur, mais au prix stupéfiant où il est proposé, il faut faire partie des nantis ou alors économiser sur la nourriture et les vacances. J'exagère, mais à peine.
Je vous trouve un peu mesquin de nous présenter vos logiciels professionnels hors de prix alors que Xara vous a contenté le temps que vous l'avez utilisé.
Pour moi, Xara reste le must: simple d'emploi, accessible et malgré tout fonctionnel et polyvalant.
J'imagine que la multitude de logiciels professionnels dont vous avez accès, vous trouverez un programme qui sache traduire le texte d'une conscrite qui se plaît dans la "cour des petits", que vous n'hésitez pas à traiter par dessus la jambe.
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
@ eobet, Does this mean you won't be buying version 5?
@ Dominique, un peu sévère! :)
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
Ok, one final note, because I want the discussions here to be constructive:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
behzad
I totally disagree with your post. It makes no sense. I have been using xara in the commercial industry for years. I love it. Sure it is not photoshop and it is not meant to be, but i can tell you that it is for me better than illustrator.
You can't just say "it's better for me" without providing an example, otherwise you aren't adding anything to the discussion.
For example, in my middle drawing above, I used the live trace (with tweakable levels of tolerance) to instantly convert a scanned drawing to objects, and then I used my wacom tablet to correct a few lines (Illustrator intelligently reconstructs any line you draw near) and finally the live trace to color it (again, Illustrator intelligently finds gaps in the drawings which prevents color from spilling over into other areas if you've missed a small gap, and I can just fill any object like a paintbucket tool in Painter and even do hue changes to the entire drawing like in Photoshop).
That's at least five examples of features Xara lacks, which makes this process several orders of magnitude faster in Illustrator, and in your comment you chose to ignore commenting on any of those. That is not how you do constructive criticism or have a meaningfull discussion!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
behzad
Xara is a great compliment to adobe products. Professionals use a number of different products to create their work and you really don't make much sense.
Again, that's the second time you said that I didn't make any sense, and you can't say that without properly explaining why.
I'm a professional and as I explained I do use different products, and that is my point, not yours! That is why I argued that in the little niche where I find Xara useful, not much has been done for me in all these years. Instead, Xara has branched out to many other areas, instead of trying to be very, very good at the one thing it started out as: a very slick and fast object editor.
You are arguing directly against what Xara seems to be trying to accomplish. With the photo editing, page layouts and web editing, Xara clearly appears to be going for an all-in-one package, rather than a compliment to anything else. And on top of your logic being flawed, you don't even provide any evidence of the contrary!
-
Over the years, I've tried to hold rational and structured discussions on this forum, but the blind fanboyism of some Xara users have sabotaged this, and I have to admit that that is also one of my reasons for saying good bye.
EDITS:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dominique
Soit Photoshop est hautement supérieur, mais au prix stupéfiant où il est proposé, il faut faire partie des nantis ou alors économiser sur la nourriture et les vacances. J'exagère, mais à peine.
If Google translate has this right, thank you for reinforcing my view that Xara is mainly for hobbyist users.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kinetica
@ eobet, Does this mean you won't be buying version 5?
I didn't buy version 4 either. I managed to succesfully argue that the company I was working at should provide me with a license. I don't think that would work for version 5.
Personally, I just bought Adobe CS4 because the GPU accelerated realtime rotation of the Photoshop drawings is something I could really use.
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
behzad
The addition of the web features does not take away from what xara already has. Sorry but good luck.
Actually, the point is that, for non web designers, little, of note, has been added for quite some time now. Sure there have been more tweaks, but from my point of view these have made almost no impact. The 3D extrude is nice, if limited, the object gallery is long overdue and very good, but these amount to small beans as far as I am concerned.
Where are the floodfills, the (proper) masks, the natural media brushes, mesh fills, mesh distort, extrude along a line, live vector effects, actions, (I'm sure others can think of much more)? A lot of this stuff is fast becoming standard in vector software. For vector illustration, Xtreme is leading the way in speed and lagging behind in most other aspects. Even then the above mentioned productivity improving tools really eat in that advantage.
Personally, I think the shape editor is vector graphics best tool for clean linework (which is 90% of what I do in the program), though this is not a universal view, it is an added draw for me and I will use it for linework until something better comes along, but I would be reluctant to create large and complex full colour work in Xtreme (I have tried), regardless of it's speed.
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
Quote:
I totally disagree with your post. It makes no sense.
It makes sense because Xara is still not available for the Mac. If it would be, I'd go for it.
The Mac is a very important platform for illustration and art work, so I really wonder why Xara is leaving this opportunity for others who can't even get close to what Xara can do.
I could cross upgrade most of my Win applications, in most cases with the identical serial number. ArtRage, PhotoLine, Photomatix Pro, Adobe Acrobat, LZ, VueScan, etc. Some are not (yet) available for the Mac, like Rhino (but the beta is already running), NoteTab Pro (I'm using Text Wrangler now which is close), Cinema 4D XL (version 7 doesn't run on Mac OSX and an upgrade to the latest version is too expensive and doesn't make sense to me for my purposes) and - you've guessed it - Xara.
Worst of all: I can't even open or convert the Xara file format to any other format like PDF <sigh>.
So I'm currently using Intaglio which is more finger cracking than something you can work with. Except for Acrobat I refuse to install any Adobe products because I don't like to adopt my work flow to that of some weird software engineers.
A life without Xara leaves a huge gap. But obviously that's the price you have to pay if you switch to a superior OS.
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jens g.r. benthien
A life without Xara leaves a huge gap. But obviously that's the price you have to pay if you switch to a superior OS.
I think not.
http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/guide/windows
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
Paul I totally agree, I have moved on to MAC and the first thing in my briefcase was XARA!
I do believe the the greatest thing a man or a company can do is to broaden the horizons of the "common" person...
all of the "professionals" that can't do "miracles with artwork" are few and far between... but us the "hobbiest" the people who are improving our media with a powerful simple to use and AFFORDABLE program like Xara, these are the people that by the thousands are making a difference...
so to those who moved on I say good bye, there a 1,000 new ones who will replace and enhance our lives with their contributions...
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
Next week I will have owned my iMac for 1 year now. I really enjoy my Mac and I see no reason to switch back to a PC or own a companion PC.
Currently I'm still using Xara on my Mac by running the free VirtualBox with Windows XP.
But this has been a year now for me doing this and I would like to stop the need to boot up XP in order to run Xtreme. Just as I made the switch from PC to Mac, I'm starting to look at other options out there in graphic software. I still love Xara Xtreme, but other Mac users aren't going to install Windows XP on their Mac in order to run Xtreme.
Apple software is easy to use and designed that way. Bundled programs like iMovie and iWeb, make it very easy for the home user to edit movies or create web sites. To me, Xara Xtreme is very much like a Mac program but created only for the PC.
The number os OS X users is smaller than Windows, but still that's millions of potential Xara users being turned away.
I'd like to see Xara Xtreme succeed, but I too like to succeed. If Xtreme can't venture to the Mac, I may look in seeing who else is out there and then my turn to the dark side would be complete. Come Xara. Join me. Together we can rule the galaxy!
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pauland
I've already mentioned it in another post: why should I install a superfluous operating system on a stable and reliable system? Even Windoze XP Pro for which I have a licence needs more space on the hard drive than the highly performant OS X.
I wouldn't build a shabby Ssangyong engine into a Ferrari - would you?
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
@EOBET Good luck... I wish you well - there are lots of things I prefer illustrator for, and lots xtreme, but this ground is trampled flat, no need [for me] to revisit
I really like the drawing - the style is one I know well, and am very fond of :)
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
I don't think Magix is the right kind of company for the Mac - they clearly have an agenda to chase the mass market and that doesn't really fit with Mac development, nor are they chasing the design professional, which would again score for a high percentage of mac users.
Running windows on the Mac is a second-best option, but it is there and seems to work perfectly. I think Xtreme 5 is a bit of a watershed in Xara development and continues the mass-market strategy that Magix is following.
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dominique
" Quand on veut noyer son chien, on dit qu'il a la rage"
"When one wants to drown his dog, say it has rabies"
Very apt, Dominique.
eobet,
Xara Xtreme is just a tool. You can choose to use it or not. If you want to continue using Xara X and it has the tools you need, by all means, carry on... or don't. If Illustrator, Photoshop and InDesign enhances your work flow and produces the artwork required by your clients in a timely fashion you'd be remiss in not using them.
I've used several versions of CorelDraw through the years and jumped ship when I discovered Xtreme 3.2. I find myself cursing at the monitor a lot less now :D. That's not to say that I don't ever use CorelDraw X3 anymore. I also use several other graphics applications because Xtreme cannot easily create, or recreate, a number of effects.
Personally, I don't see anything in the cherub graphic that couldn't have been done using Xara Xtreme, CorelDraw, InkScape, or a number of other graphic editors. Use whatever application(s) you like and feel comfortable using. I doubt very much if there will ever be one of anything that satisfies everyone.
Good luck to you,
HayTay
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
eobet voices many of my thoughts and I wish him well. As the content of the program has changed, so has the content of this forum, such that I have very little to contribute any more.
I continue to use Xtreme but I'm not upgrading any more.
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
What I don't understand about this thread.... is this actual thread's purpose.
The message I took was "Xara isn't for me anymore.". Not only did I get this by the subject, but I wasn't even sure why I, or anyone else, needed to know at all.
Isn't this like going to a party where everyone you know leaves, and then you yell out to all the other people still there, that you don't know - "All my friends have left - so I'M LEAVING AS WELL!!!"
Just wondering.
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
Bobby I think it is more a last hope that someone from Xara will post and say they are working on a Mac version of Xtreme. Which would not happen even if it were true.
Xara is well known for not leaking any information about any future versions.
Programs are tools and as people's needs change so do their need for a specific tool. Good luck Eobet.
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dogbertbh
What I don't understand about this thread.... is this actual thread's purpose.
I see it as customer feedback. A lot of programs change and evolve based on customer feedback. Knowing how your current users are changing and evolving, in order to keep them, you'll need to change too.
Of course to other users - who cares when you hear someone say, "I'm not using this program, because this other one works better for me..." Use what you want, we don't care! The ones who should care about statements like that, is Xara.
If users didn't care about Xara, they would simply find the program they like and not bother posting their thoughts on TalkGraphics. The reason comments like this are made is that they like Xtreme and want to continue using it, but point out things that hold them back.
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
I understand the need for customer feedback - This just didn't have that feel.
Seemed more like a final FU
That's not feedback, that's the old Seinfeld 'Leave on a high note'
-"GOOD NIGHT EVERYBODY!!!!"
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
I agree, it's just another thread for having a general moan about Xtreme not going in the direction some of us would prefer. Unfortunately, we already know, from replies in other threads, that our moans are not going to change that direction and, no doubt, many will be finding such whining somewhat irksome, so I, for one, will try and curb my whinging about this.
If any spots me indulging in this again, feel free to give me a metaphorical slap!
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
nice drawing eobet
good luck with your mac and illustrator which i tried to get used too but i still love the ease of good old ugly xara.
FLy
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
I never minded anyone asking for things not in the program now. I'm sure that's how it got so good. I'm sure everyone wishes Xara could do everything they want to do as well as every other program they've seen with the speed and ease-of-use we've come to expect from Xara.
I do agree with one thing said earlier in this thread. There has been a change in the people on the boards. It feels like there is this growing divide between the professional and the non-professional.
Whether you get paid for what you do or not, the fact that you paid the same as me for the software means you are entitled to the same amount of input and opinion as me as a user.
We've always been a community of sorts. I'd like to keep it from becoming US VS. THEM
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
It's just a bit of frustration following a release that was not much of an event for some users. It'll pass.
A lot of users here have wanted Xtreme to move in a certain direction (which won't happen) and it's sad to move on. Xtreme is every bit as good as it always has been, but the world is moving around it and users needs change and the target demographic is changing. That's life.
Paul
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
I feel Eobet was only demonstrating how the software relates to his work flow/software tools ... and probably, as Bill Taylor mentioned above, making a plea for Xara to consider their development direction.
Good luck, Eobot and please continue to share with the us when the opportunity presents itself.e
Regards, John.
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
Perhaps these topics should be linked together. :rolleyes:
http://www.talkgraphics.com/showthread.php?t=27642
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
Mike, that link is truly scary - it took me a few moments to realise how old it was. I certainly didn't remember it.
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
That's the problem with internet goodbyes, you never hear the door slam.
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
I prefer doors not to slam. Eobet articulates points that a lot of people feel, even though they still love Xtreme.
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
We all love things that we got used to, it's human nature. That's why we often neglect new things and shut our eyes because nothing can be as good as the old thing we love.
I fully understand eobet and certainly with his workflow and chain of tools he's better off with adobe.
Illustrator gets better by every release (no, really!), it now has fill tools similar to xara (still not as sex*y to use but no one is perfect). You can see a difference with each version and improvement here and there.
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
Illustrator is $599 - Why does everyone have to compare the two and say Xara is falling short. if they added new vector tools to Xara and charged $599 then maybe they could pay for the extra development. However, I for one wouldn't be buying the latest Xara version.
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
ss-kalm, well it's simple:
Xara (old statement! *)
"Xara Xtreme, the fastest vector graphics program on the planet".*
Illustrator
"Adobe Illustrator CS4 software is a comprehensive vector graphics environment that is ideal for all creative professionals, including web and interactive designers and developers, multimedia producers, motion graphics and visual effects designers, animators, and video professionals."
People compare everything (not only software) to find a ranking and see what value things are worth.
Illustrator is based on postscript, Xara has their own custom engine - so there will never ever match.
Don't get me wrong, i love Xara and always will! Illustrator can simply be not be compared to Xara. I can see easily how people like to compare since the broad word 'vector' is the only thing in common.
*this is the statement that has made Xara popular (on so many reviews on the net) - so it's branded in people's head as a vector tool.
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
I found the problem with adobe CS4 stuff was that they are too big and take up too many resources. but by sticking to the old CS3 stuff and using Xara to use as my drawing program things work out fine. we all have to admit that Xara is the better drawing program don't we ?? but I do agree that for someone like me that as no interest in the website stuff the update was disappointing.
Compromise seems to be the keyword here.
just my 2 Cents worth LOL
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jonnycross
I found the problem with adobe CS4 stuff was that they are too big and take up too many resources.
Not disagreeing there. It's because (like microsoft) every 2 years you need to buy a brand new, kick ar*se machine to be able to use the latest Adobe updates and the latest Windows OS.
I just bought a brand new computer (spare the details), all the latest Adobe CS4 Software is working smoothly as(!), no complains there - but the money i've spent is beyond Xtreme (no pun intended) ;)
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
Good Luck Mate ... and I know how you feel. Calls for vector improvements have just fallen on deaf ears for too many years. I'm slowly learning Illustrator myself and will make the switch at some point.
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ss-kalm
Illustrator is $599
and?!
An upgrade from Macromedia Freehand to Adobe Illustrator CS4 is $199.
An upgrade from Macromedia Freehand to Xara Xtreme Pro 5 is $159.
That's not such a great difference (in price).
An upgrade from Adobe Illustrator CS3 to CS4 is $199.
An upgrade from Xara Xtreme Pro 4 to 5 is $69.
That's a much greater difference, but like you said...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ss-kalm
I for one wouldn't be buying the latest Xara version.
Me neither. It's the first Xara upgrade I'll have ever skipped.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ss-kalm
if they added new vector tools to Xara and charged $599 then maybe they could pay for the extra development
If only they would!!
Keep Xtreme for the Noddy templates, Fisherprice wizards and introduce new features for family tree drawings, webpage export and maybe frilly lace designing, funny face photo editing or wallpaper designs. Charge $79 or even $9.99 at petrol stations - heck, compete with Serif for the quickest turnaround of products with the least difference between them. Then charge the rest of us $199 in upgrades a year for some serious updates to Xtreme Pro... my credit card is waiting, I know JokeArtist's is too, and suspect that there are plenty others as well.
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Daniel
... my credit card is waiting, I know JokeArtist's is too, and suspect that there are plenty others as well.
Damn right ... I've not upgraded since 3.2 but I've put my hand in my pocket for Illustrator CS4 ... just to have a play with it. When you're a professional design then $600 is the earth to get new tools to do your job better when it equates to a couple of days work.
-
Re: Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Xcellent
Illustrator can simply be not be compared to Xara. I can see easily how people like to compare since the broad word 'vector' is the only thing in common.
For the price between Illustrator and Xtreme when buying new, it is unfair to compare the two.
Xara themselves demonstrates Xtreme's graphics performance to Adobe Illustrator, complete with visual aids. Of course this is only based on speed. But once Illustrator's name is brought in, it is easy for people to start comparing the two on other aspects as well.