I was at The Register, reading an article about DDoS mitigation, and did a double take when I saw Charle's photo on the right hand side promoting this article:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/01...n_anniversary/
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I was at The Register, reading an article about DDoS mitigation, and did a double take when I saw Charle's photo on the right hand side promoting this article:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/01...n_anniversary/
Interesting article. It reveals, somewhat, why Xara isn't a household word among graphic designers.
Magix and "International exposure" seem totally at odds in the last few paragraphs. Magix itself isn't well known in the US (you know, that place that is only about marketing BS). Unfortunately the US was, and remains, the largest market segment for either company's products.
Hoping that Magix will become better at communicating with the world concerning Xara is itself a folly at best. And it is a pity. XDP could become a 2nd place illustration application. Second place? At least over the next decade. Adobe is too entrenched to take much of their market share in the span of ten years. CorelDraw would be easier to unseat and they are currently in the second seat.
I also suspect Serif, which comes up far easier in the US using Google or Bing searches is likely holding third place. (Aside from the Opensource InkScape.)
Speaking of Serif, both companies (Xara and Serif) have opportunities to take market share with Adobe's new licensing model that takes over towards the end of 2012. The time is ripe for promoting alternatives to both Illustrator (XDP) and InDesign (PagePlus).
I believe Xara's XDP needs some fundamental changes in order to move forward in the US (and elsewhere) in order to be taken seriously in design circles even with Adobe's stupid decisions regarding licensing. Like it or not, there is too much product overlap in Xara products to endear itself to designers accustomed to Illustrator and CorelDraw. Web stuff (with some exception here) needs removed. Web stuff related to interactivity in PDFs and eBooks should stay and be enhanced. But a web site creator? Nah. That's what Xara's Web Designer stuff should be for.
I do hope that minds change at Xara and Magix concerning Xara's offerings and how they integrate into the larger whole of print, interactive communication and web work. XDP *is* a great design application that is capable of so much more. And it decidedly deserves a greater market share. XDP currently does have a slight identity crises and that needs refined and strengthened. Then promoted with single-minded purpose.
Take care, Mike
interesting article, thanks :thx
Yes, thanks for an interesting read.
Wonderful article Anthony. I used to own a BBC so I'm familiar with some of his software.....
I have to agree with Mike on several points. Both the Macintosh and Adobe communities have expressed outrage at Adobe's new licensing policy, which is just a logical extension of corporate greed. Which will indeed create an opening, which I really hope Xara can fill.
It's all about marketing, period, forget the false sense of security in the ivy covered walls of pure academia and research. Xara has the goods, now it's time for a successful marketing strategy. Does everyone realize how Illustrator became the #1 vector drawing program? More than 10 years ago, CorelDRAW had almost 90% of the Windows market for vector drawing programs. They stumbled as their CEO had some dirty deal accusations to answer for, and never regained to this day the momentum they had. Adobe, on the other hand, at the same time, saw 54% of their Photoshop revenue coming from Windows, and decided to give a truly anemic Windows Illustrator some serious attention. Since 1996 or so, Illustrator has been basically equivlant on both the Mac and the PC for features, and the company is so serious about the product they recast the code a few years ago to get rid of legacy code crap.
I'd like to see Xara taught in higher education, like Illustrator is, and CorelDRAW isn't these days. That was one monumentally sound move that Adobe wangled: to get courses taught in Illustrator at universities. Because this creates generations of users.
A good place to start with this might be to request a course in Xara at Lynda.com, no? If enough people ask for something, eventually smart merchants get the idea.
My Best,
gary
Lynda.com is only interested in doing work for technology used by people willing to shell out their subscription fee - essentially professionals and serious amateurs. I don't think that Xara's market penetration would make it something that Lynda.com would see as being of interest to their subscribers.
Xara is seriously flawed for working in the existing professional pipeline dominated by Adobe. Established agencies have no interest in a single software product that does a lot of things well, but none very well. Xara software does great static website creation, but is useless for large sites or serious CMS integration. The drawing capabilities are good but seriously falling behind their competitors (and not just Adobe competitors).
Magix's heart is in the consumer/semi-professional market, not the professional market. They couldn't even capitalise on the notion of bringing Xara to the resurgent Mac market where there is less competition.
You are entirely right about people being less than happy with Adobe these days.
I agree. I need to tread a careful line on my comments - I worked at Xara, and of course am still involved a bit (hence TG) and I do that because I like the products and many of the people there. But working in marketing at Xara was frustrating because, well, there wasn't really any when I was there. And Charles' disdain for marketing in the article really explains a lot. But I guess if your first product sells bucketloads by word of mouth alone, the value of marketing must be harder to appreciate. Sadly, products rarely work that way! Particuarly in such a competitive landscape as the PC market.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gare
I think anyone that uses is it hooked - I still use it every day. But there's so much potential to get the word out there and make it bigger. An autocratic company can achieve brilliance yet also be limited.
have a look here:
http://www.talkgraphics.com/showthre...ble&highlight=
so far [20.22 GMT 16 jan12] no reply - ok that's maybe because it's a known issue - but nobody in the true professional market is going to put up with c**p like this, but the 'consumer' market just might - nuff said
Heh heh, haven't spent much time on the Adobe InDesign or PhotoShop forums lately, have we? The number of stupid issues and work-arounds is astounding.
But I do agree. I just came on the forum and saw the other thread and responded. To add to that post because it is more pertinent here, I don't generally copy multiple objects across multiple layers and don't know if I would have ever noticed the issue without that post.
Xara isn't alone in its issues. While I do not experience many of the problems that are recurring issues with InDesign the Adobe forums that show up everyday, I suspect one day I will. At least if I purchase a Mac. Seems many of the recurring issues are ironically related to the Macs.
Take care, Mike
I don't believe it's any sort of consolation that, "Oh, you think it's bad, just look at Adobe!..."
That mindset reminds me of Microsoft's bumper stickers after Apple did some unusually, above average, trashy commercials. The bumper sticker? "We suck less."
Once I'm done laughing about it, I'm left pretty empty and wondering what ever happened to the pursuit of excellence.
My Best,
gary
I use CS5 photoshop
I have yet to discover anything as basically crass as this - if you have examples [windows - I don't use mac] I'd love to be forewarned..
Gare, I didn't mean to express a caviler attitude about the state of software today (or any other day). It isn't any consolation, I know that and didn't mean it in a conciliatory way, either.
I guess all I was meaning to express is that Xara is not alone in having faults, and that it is not a "professional" versus "consumer" software/user issue. Plus I suppose I was reacting to the phrase "nobody in the true professional market is going to put up with c**p like this...".
It is amazing what the "true professional" market puts up with every day regardless of the vendor. I find issues I need to work around on a too consistent basis with Corel, Xara, Adobe CS products (ID, PS, Flash, DW), Serif, PhotoLine, etc. They all should fix the stuff.
Heck, I just posted a message regarding a long-time Xara user asking about exports of JPEGs at 150 dpi not being the same dimensions as the file. What one needs to do to obtain their desired results shouldn't need to happen, either.
I want all the software that I use fixed to the point of being accurate according to what it says on the tin. Being the pessimist (or perhaps realist) that is not going to happen.
In handrawn's example of the copy/paste across multiple layers cropping up in the 7 series, I think the software just wasn't vetted during its beta phase in all scenarios. Some of the people on this board have likely done some complex programming. I have. After making changes in code, especially extensive changes, it is darn easy to overlook something being broken that wasn't previously broken.
Please note that I am not trying to make excuses for Xara. I can find plenty of faults with how Xara makes decisions and how that affects the software (aside from bugs and regressions)--I already posted some of my opinion in this thread.
Take care, Mike
1} the 150 dpi 'issue' is one of the prerson concerned not understanding how xara software works - for you to to say that shouldn't happen is to rather imply you don't either [no offence]
2} but that a software company cannot even get a basic cut and paste operation to work without loosing user data beggers belief - what is more fundamental than this? [[handrawn has done some programming too :p]
apologies to Antony - we are drifting.... :o
[Gary raises hand to confess he, too, is going O/T]
Didn't mean to cast aspersions, Mike.
I think we took our passion about the product, and turned Charles' interview into a Feature BitchFest because we're human, designers tend to get as passionate about our tools as our craft, and forums are natural targets for "differences of opinion". :)
My Best,
Gary
No offense taken.Quote:
Originally Posted by handrawn
Here's the thing in my opinion--and I knew how to answer the OP because I guess I do understand how Xara software works. If Xara allows me to define a pixel "blank photo" page based on pixels, then I don't think it should change those dimensions when I opt to up the dpi resolution of said "page." While math isn't my strong suit, I can run a calculator. I just don't think I should need to if I am offered to create a pixel-based page size.
I understand that Xara is at its base a vector, pixel-independent, application. And so in that way, it makes sense that it doesn't take into account any intentions on my part about the eventual export of said pixel-based "page." However, like an image manipulation program such as PhotoLine or PhotoShop, perhaps it would be more intelligent for the resolution to be needed when one chooses "blank photo" or one of the other image-based pixel dimensioned options. Then like any other pixel-based editor, perhaps it would create a file of those dimensions at that resolution.
And your point #2? Nothing is lost per se. An operation didn't work in the expected manner--which because it works in previous versions as expected, is a regression. Have you made Xara aware via the support ticket system? I suspect you have because you work in this manner and need it fixed. But they are not going to magically fix something they may not even be aware of.
Best regards. I'm done with the thread.
Mike
Hi Mike
I am not getting at you, sorry if it seems that way.. :o
on import, xara displays all bitmaps in the page/paste-board area at 'print-size' [relative to imported dpi] - its as simple as that
the only reason to have a page [area] was for print in the days before HTML export and 'blank photo' document type
maybe these days that should change in some respects - but it is not a defect, it is actually a very useful feature and really simple to work with once this basic fact is understood - and yes, you do need to know the maths of ratio, but working with bitmaps generally this is so I think
The Cut and Paste issue - well I put it in the Dear Xara thread - I am sure Xara are well aware of it, I'm just 'bumping' it because it recently caused me a significant degredation of workflow
Perhaps my take on it is a bit strong, but remember if you cut and paste in this fashion, forgetting it does not work, you could indeed loose things -and mess things up good and proper - when you are pasting across layers you cannot always see the result of the paste straight away, this could really trip someone up
perhaps these last posts should be split into a seperate thread?
I'm with Mike's suggestions above. When I read this quote, " "MAGIX are very good at the whole marketing and distribution thing... that's one of the good fits because we are strong on engineering and technology side"... I think, what? I live in California and never HEARD of Magix before it bought Xara.
About Xara -- it's a very good program. But I went nuts getting it approved for my workgroup at a major US corporation. As a manager, I wanted the production speed Xara delivers. But it wasn't on the company's 'approved' purchasing list (all Adobe products were), and my workers didn't want it, because it would move them off the Adobe upgrade track and make them less employable if laid off.
Magix: focus on Illustrator. PDFs and ebooks, as Mike suggested. Simple sound for Flash... Flash isn't going away... take the time to look at HTML 5 and you'll understand how absolutely useless it is for interactive simulations. Go after elearning, particularly DOD simple military simulations. Approved-supplier time! And go after the $141 BILLION/YEAR US advertising industry. If you're in the game, play to win!
I think if instead of "very good" he'd have said "a lot better" that would have been fairer.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon404
From my view point (limited as it is) Xara seems to be doing a better job of marketing MAGIX products. I receive emails promoting MAGIX photo apps and movie editors from Xara on a regular basis. I've been on MAGIX email listings since 2007 and have not received any promotional emails for a Xara product.
Since Magix owns Xara, isn't it just Magix communicating to you via the Xara brand?
[edit: the other thing I was going to say - the Magix mailshots include Magix products that are rebranded Xara products, so it doesn't make sense to promote competition between brands owned by the same company, does it? ]
Of course it is Paul, the point is they are not promoting Xara apps.
I would imagine - and hope - they know you're a customer, so you're "deduped" - they won't email you and confuse you when you're already dealing with Xara. Common practice in marketing. Or maybe I give them too much credit. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Soquili
Why would they when they have their own rebranded versions? I think the Magix Brand is more consumer focussed (brash) than the Xara brand which is a little more refined and (I think) professional.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soquili
I practically live in the state of confusion. :D
It would be nice to think they cross reference the database information and know I am a Xara customer. :)
I'm sure that's the case.. ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Soquili