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Fellow painters,
If you've ever worked with real watercolor, you know that Painter's default brushes lack in feel and result. Well, I've been toying around with Painter's Watercolor Brushes and I think I've got real, real close to the real thing.
Attachments don't seem to be attaching, so take a look at the result here:
http://www.inmidia.com.br/carpen/sictransit.jpg
E-mail if you want this one. Sorry, PC only.
Best strokes,
Paulo
[This message was edited by paulo on June 08, 2001 at 13:11.]
Fellow painters,
If you've ever worked with real watercolor, you know that Painter's default brushes lack in feel and result. Well, I've been toying around with Painter's Watercolor Brushes and I think I've got real, real close to the real thing.
Attachments don't seem to be attaching, so take a look at the result here:
http://www.inmidia.com.br/carpen/sictransit.jpg
E-mail if you want this one. Sorry, PC only.
Best strokes,
Paulo
[This message was edited by paulo on June 08, 2001 at 13:11.]
paulo
the forum is updating slow as of late. i inadvertantly posted twice the other day thinking that my first attempt didn't load.
stecyk66
[img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
paolo,
Very nice! I'll write to you privately to ask for your brush recipe.
Thanks for offering it. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Jinny Brown
http://www.pixelalley.com
________________________
Jinny has sent me a Brush Recipe Template and I'm using it to share the Real Watercolor Brush with you.
Please be sure to send me anything you do with it!
My website shall be up soon with most of my work and some new brushes.
I'll let you know!
Thank you again, Jinny!
Paulo
REAL WATERCOLOR BRUSH RECIPE
_______________
GENERAL
Dab Type: Circular
Stroke Type: Single
Method: Wet
Subcategory: Grainy Wet Abrasive
Opacity: 29%
Grain: 90%
SIZE
Size: 10.3
Min Size: 23%
Size step: 5%
SPACING
Spacing: 36%
Min Spacing: 1.0
Damping: 50%
Continuous Time Deposition: box unchecked
Cubic Interpolation: 2 points
ANGLE
Squeeze: 100%
Angle: 25%
Ang Rng: 0
Ang Step: 0
BRISTLE (greyed out/not applicable)
IMPASTO
Draw to: Color
EXPRESSION
Size: Pressure
Jitter: None
Opacity: Pressure
Grain: Pressure
Color: None
Angle: None
Resat: Pressure
Bleed: Pressure (invert box checked)
All others greyed out/not applicable
Direction: o
WELL
Resat: 100%
Bleed: 100%
Dryout: 122,1
Brusj Loading: box unchecked
AIRBRUSH (greyed out/not applicable)
RAKE (greyed out/not applicable)
RANDOM
Jitter: 0.00
All others greyed out/not applicable
WATER
Diffusion: 0
Wet Fringe: 34%
CLONING
Clone Color: box unchecked
All others greyed out/not applicable)
MOUSE
not applicable
Paulo,
You're very welcome. I'm glad that you used it. Here's part of a message I'm sending to you privately, just to let you know what I've done with the brush so far.
I've got it saved as a variant and have been playing with it. It certainly is different from the default Water Color brush variants, and I'm finding it does some surprising things. For instance, when I first put down the brush and begin to paint, it paints with full color. Without lifting the brush, if I keep painting, the opacity decreases and it blends colors. Sometimes it won't do this lowered opacity and blending thing, though, and I haven't figured out why. All I've done is change paper textures and move the Grain slider. Oddly enough, paper texture seems increased when I move the Grain slider to the right (normally it works in the reverse, moving to the left increases Paper texture). The only thing in the settings that I can think might be the cause is that Bleed is set to Pressure/Invert, but I can't see how that has anything to do with Paper texture. Does it? Hmmm.. there is so much to learn about brushes... always!
If I get something done that's presentable, I'll post the image.
Thanks again! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Jinny Brown
http://www.pixelalley.com
________________________
Hi Paulo,
I have followed your recipe for this brush and am having a bit of a problem with a typo, I think.
The Well: dryout value you have is 122,1. Should it be 122.1 or 1221 or 1,221?
WELL
Resat: 100%
Bleed: 100%
Dryout: 122,1
Brusj Loading: box unchecked
Thanks
Greg
Hi Greg,
I noticed that too and decided it was supposed to be 122.1 since Painter seems to want to jump in increments and that's one of them.
Now that you bring up the question, though, I'm going to try the other number and see what happens. If you don't hear from me, it may be that my house blew up. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
Happy Saturday!
Jinny Brown
http://www.pixelalley.com
________________________
Ok,
My fault. The correct value is 122.1
I live in Brazil, and we few countries of Portuguese language use commas instead of dots to separate decimals. I sometimes forget that when writing in English.
Keep painting, and please send me (or post) what you're doing with the new brush! I'm curious!
P
I've received a message of someone saying that the Real Watercolor brush seem to be losing color too fast. She asks me if the recipe is right.
Well, the quick brush drying up is meant to emulate a real watercolour brush. In real watercolour painting, when the brush dries up you may keep using it to mix colors or to fade hard edges. That's why this brush is supposed to be "real." Try keeping the pen pressed after the paint dries out. You may get some interesting results!
If you're working with larger file sizes you may try to increase the DRYOUT setting in the WELL tab, to, let's say, 300 or 500.
Keep painting
[This message was edited by paulo on June 09, 2001 at 19:21.]
Obrigado, Amigo.
I will post something when I get it done, thanks again.
Regards,
Greg.
Paulo,
Thanks for the additional information and explanation. I've posted your brush recipe in the Painter Forum at IDD and Cris Palomino has tried it. She had some questions about it and I suggested that we post samples there of what we're getting. Mine is posted, and I'll also post it here. It's not a painting, just something to show you how the brush is working for me (today, as yesterday it was different with no changes made by me except to reset Brush Tracking and move the Opacity and Grain sliders). Yesterday, I got a short full opacity stroke then the rest of the stroke was lowered opacity. Today, I could get a long stroke at full opacity and only when I lightened my (hand) pressure did it go to a lighter opacity. You'll see this in the sample below. I think you'll see that my brush stroke is quite different from yours and I wonder if you can tell me how to change what I'm doing with it to get something more like what you have. Yours is lovely, soft and natural looking.
(By the way, I'm enjoying this brush a lot, just want to use it the best way.)
Also, may I have your permission to post your explanation in the Painter Forum at IDD? I think it would help people there to understand how to use the brush.
Here's my sample:
http://www.pixelalley.com/painter-li...les-to-IDD.jpg
[This message was edited by Jinny Brown on June 09, 2001 at 16:01.]
Jinny, Cris and all
We seem to be before a real mystery here. I could never imagine the same brush "recipe" would produce so different results!
Let's begin, Jinny with your sample strokes. My Real Watercolor Brush (from now on, RWB) looks quite different from those! First and foremost, I almost never get those spacing artifacts (overlapping circles) with my RWB, and they are clearly visible in the sample you posted. Second, your strokes don't seem to be variable in size; the ones I get are evenly proportional to pressure (the strongest the pressure, the bigger the size). And third, with my RWB opacity decreases fast with the slightest decrease in pressure, and it never comes back before I lift the pen off the tablet. That's how it's supposed to work!
Well, let's write down some technicalities before we continue:
I'm using:
Painter 6.1
Windows 98
Wacom Artz II
As for my technique, here's how I use the RWB (default settings, please):
1.For filling large areas, I use strong, even pressure. I get with that large strokes with full color and hard edges.
2.If I start with firm pressure I get the same hard-edged strokes, but as soon as I decrease the hand pressure a little I get continuous decreasing opacity: the brush becomes a blending brush. I use it to soften hard edges (see sample).
3.I may use the RWB as a blending brush indefinitely, as long as I don't lift the pen off the tablet. If I increase the hand pressure while RWB is in the "blending mode," I get a larger blending brush, that's all.
4.When I lift the pen off the tablet I got a "newly replenished" watercolour brush. If I press it hard on the tablet, I go back to (1) as a result. If I use little initial hand pressure, I get a smaller size brush with little opacity: it becomes, almost immediately, a blending brush.
http://www.inmidia.com.br/carpen/circle.jpg
But, what to say of the rest? How come, Jinny, your brush behaves today differently today than it did yesterday? How come it behaves differently in different machines? We may be talking gremlins here.
Maybe it'd be interesting if other people who are trying the brush would post samples of their own experiments. We could learn a lot with it each other!
Keep painting!
Paulo
[This message was edited by paulo on June 09, 2001 at 19:45.]
Hi Folks,
Paulo, I think this brush is great. I have been playing with it for a while and I think it is a Keeper. I am attaching a test image as per your request.
Regards,
Greg.
Greg,
Thanks for participating! We all seem to be getting different results but the RWB basics are pretty much the same. I'm beginning to think my difficulties have more to do with my pen settings changing on their own (in the Wacom Controls panel). Also, my blending opacity and brush size are very erratic and not controllable. While I have the brush in blending mode and it's going along nicely, all of a sudden it will revert to either or both of the following: full opacity and/or a larger brush size. This is without my having changed physical pressure at all. I've tested over and over to make sure it's not me and, though practice would probably improve my control, it's obvious that something is amiss with the pen pressure (or possibly it's that I'm still using Painter 6.0.3 and Paulo's using 6.1 ??).
What system are you on, Painter version, etc.?
Paulo,
Thanks for the nice samples. I tried reproducing them and came close but still have problems with pen pressure that result in not being able to keep lighter opacity for blending and sometimes not being able to continue the brush stroke (the latter is a new development in the past few minutes).
I still love the brush, I just don't love the way my pen is acting.
Win98 SE
Wacom ArtZII, driver 4.52
Painter 6.0.3
Greg,
If you're interested in seeing some more samples, rather good ones, done by Cris Palomino, and another one posted by me today, they're available in the Painter Forum at In Depth Discussions:
http://www.critical-depth.com/cgi-bin/idd/default.asp
The trip would be worthwhile for even more than this topic and IDD is a great community of really decent people.. many of whom are very talented and all of whom are generous with their knowledge.
Happy Brushing! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Jinny Brown
http://www.pixelalley.com
_______________________
[This message was edited by Jinny Brown on June 10, 2001 at 11:18.]
Hi Jinny,
I am using Painter 6.0.3 on a Win 98 PC. I use an Intuos tablet. I don't seem to be having the problems you are having. I might be facing East or holding my chin differently than you are. So far I am getting a hell of a kick out of playing with it.
I hope you can get it sorted out soon.
Regards,
Greg
Jinny, Cris and All
A. SIZE MATTERS
---------------------
We're finally close to reach common ground here. Our first problem is probably size related. You all must have noticed from previous Painter experiments that increasing the Brush size may result in a less-than-smooth stroke: you get those overlapping circles, the dreadful spacing artifacts. A common solution is decreasing the Spacing percentage in the Brush Pallete.
All my samples were made using low resolutions and a brush size within a 10 to 25 pixels range. I had never tried a bigger brush size until now.
Let's experiment a little:
http://www.inmidia.com.br/carpen/size.jpg
Brush settings for 1-3:
Brush Size: 10.0
Other than that, using the default Real Watercolor Brush settings as in the RECIPE above.
(1) I am able to maintain a steady color flow until I release a little hand pressure.
(2) When I release hand pressure in mid-stroke the color fades and (3) I may use the brush as a blender, provided I don't lift the pen from the tablet.
Comments on 1-3:
This is the Real Water Brush as I've been using it. Soft, real-like. For comments on color fading, see below.
Brush settings for 4-5:
Brush Size: 50.0
Other than that, using the default Real Watercolor Brush settings as in the RECIPE above.
(4) I try a steady pressure stroke as in (1). Now I finally get a result similar to what Jinny and Cris seem to be getting. The overlapping circles are here, and they are as visible as in Jinny's post. The increase in size seem to ask for a decrease in the spacing setting. Note that when I release hand pressure at the end of the stroke the color fades. If I keep the pen pressed (5) I may keep using the brush as a blender, even with the presence of those dreadful spacing artifacts.
Comments on 4-5:
This is probably the kind of result that Jinny, Cris and others are experimenting. Notice you may use the RWB as a blender (after opacity becomes 0) even with such an uneven stroke result. For more on technique, see below. For a possible solution to this issue, see 6-8.
Brush settings for 6-8:
Brush Size: 50.0
Spacing: 14%
Other than that, using the default Real Watercolor Brush settings as in the RECIPE above.
(6) I try a firm, steady stroke as in (1). With the lesser spacing value, the stroke is soft again: the spacing artifacts are gone. The color remains flowing until I release hand pressure in the end.
(7) When I release some hand pressure in mid-stroke it behaves as in (2) and (3). With the saturation gone, it enters the "blender"mode, and I use the invisible brush to soften hard edges and
(8) to mix colors.
Comments on 6-8:
This is how I suppose one should use the RWB in higher resolutions. Tell me if it is working for anyone else.
B. BRUSH DAB
---------------------
Jinny, I guess that the right brush dab was what your brush (and your template [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]) was lacking. Yes, my RWB uses the Brush Dab Center Bottom Icon. Now that you changed it, your brush looks exactly like mine. Congratulations!
For more on results, see below.
C. A QUESTION OF TECHNIQUE: Drawing Clouds
---------------------
The remaining part of the problem is probably related to differences in our painting techniques. In the samples Jinny and Cris posted in the forums, none of the two seem to be using the brushes as I'm using them in the samples I'm posting (except, maybe, to Jinny last post in IDD). In fact, the "look and feel" of Cris' brush strokes isn't much different than my own. Her use of the strokes is quite different, though. Her strokes are short, precise, oil-like. Mine are long, convoluted and overlapping.
Let me show what I mean with another example:
DRAWING CLOUDS
http://www.inmidia.com.br/carpen/clouds.jpg
Brush settings for Drawing Clouds Example:
Brush Size: 20
Other than that, using the default Real Watercolor Brush settings as in the RECIPE above.
(1) The orange line traces my original RWB stroke. As you see, it is one long, convoluted, overlapping stroke. Here I used steady pressure until the end. The result isn't what I want, though. I don't want those hard edges for my clouds. Let me try again.
(2) Once again, one long, overlapping stroke only. With one difference: I release some hand pressure at some point (x) so that opacity decreases to almost 0, and I begin to use the brush as a blender. Note that I don't lift the pen off the tablet after the color is gone: we're talking the same long stroke here. THE WATERCOLOR-LIKE APPEARANCE OF MY POSTS ISN'T THE RESULT OF PAINT DISPERSION. IT'S THE RESULT OF RETOUCHING HARD EDGES WITH THE BRUSH AFTER IT LOSES OPACITY. I keep using the RWB in this "blender mode"until I get what I want:
(3) soft looking clouds. Then I may begin again, with a new color or pressure (4), depending on the results I want.
Some final suggestions:
1. Please check in the Size tab of the Brush Pallete if your RWB Brush Dab is set to Center Bottom Icon. It's where it's supposed to be.
2. Use long, convoluted, overlaping strokes to with steady firm hand pressure cover large areas with color.
3. Release some hand pressure in mid-stroke, without releasing the pen off the tablet, to use the brush in its blender mode. Note that it's the use of the RWB in this "blender mode" that will make your watercolour look real. Suppose you're painting with real watercolor: the paint in your brush is gone quickly after you touch the paper, but you may keep using your "dry" brush as a color blender, and to soften hard edges. When you lift the RWB off the tablet, you're actually replenishing it with paint. Before using it as a blender again, you must ged rid of the paint in the brush. Do it with a long, natural stroke... and don't lift the pen off the tablet if you want to soften some hard edges.
Cris, you say in your post, "the color is gone quickly and does not return until I start another stroke." Well, that's how it's supposed to work! Keep the pen on the tablet and use the RWB to soften some hard edges. Remember: long, natural, overlapping strokes. Think water here. Think Japanese painting gestures.
And keep painting. Hope some of this actually
helps!
Greg, glad you're enjoying it!
[This message was edited by paulo on June 10, 2001 at 12:48.]
To further illustrate my watercolor technique as described above:
Each of the six elements in this simple landscape were painted with one long stroke each.
http://www.inmidia.com.br/carpen/onestroke.jpg
If you pay attention, the same principle (one stroke for each block of color) was used in this other one:
http://www.inmidia.com.br/carpen/sictransit.jpg
Peace,
P
Paulo,
This is a sample of my use of your brush. I t is taking some getting used to after not working in Water Colors for a while.
Regards,
Greg
Jinny,
In your last post you ask what was the original brush I messed up with until I got RWB. Frankly I don't remember! I only remember it wasn't originally a watercolor brush.
Another idea has just crossed my mind. I'm posting the Real Water Brush, the Original, as an attachment to this post (realwater.brs). Let's see if it works in your PC!
It's a pleasure to be of any help!
P
Greg,
I love your image! The pavement and the bricks are really great, but it's in the window where you show everything you can do!
I tend to use more yellow in my foliage greens, but guess it depends on taste and choice.
Please keep me updated! I'd love to know more about the use you're giving to RWB.
Peace,
Paulo
Wow it has been amazingly weird following this thread. For me it shows that none of you guys feel that my "do it yourself" tutorial was useful.
All this confusion about this very ordinary brush variant shows what little effort has been made to understand this application.
I suppose that it was thought that my tutorial was for beginners. Au contraire.
Do it dilligently and you will gain a real understanding of how to modify an existing brush to behave exactly how you want.
The confusion was inevitable. Paulo didn't understand that his brush recipe was not complete.
Seeing as we are dealing with a grainy variant which will ineract with the currently selected paper we need to know what paper is used.
More importantly Paulo had neglected to mention the brush profile which was used.
Let's do some reverse engineering, it is obvious by the 29% opacity and the 23 min size, the spacing at 36% and 0% diffusion that Paulo has started with the standard simple water brush.
The first thing I notice about this RWB brush is that it is not that different from the standard simple water brush.
If you start from a water colour brush you will automatically have the right profile but if you try to build this brush from a different source you probably would have it on the wrong profile, which is why Jinny's brush was so different.
Also the circular artifacts which are immediately apparent should instantly be recognised as requiring a small spacing adjustment. Not really hard to solve and it is not the sort of thing that will change the essential character of a brush anyway.
The only *real* difference between this brush and the standard simple water is that the resat has been wound all the way up and this has been somewhat compensated by knocking the dryout down.
No big deal. It would be far more useful to share the discovery about how dryout and resat affect a watercolour brush, and in what way. Thus encouraging a deeper understanding of the controls. So that one can immediately focus on the important controls. Which in this case are resat and dryout.
Let's see a posting of an interesting brush that has some real unique qualities that are unlike any of the standard brushes. Now that would be news.
Thelonious your friendly nieghborhood curmudgeon.
[This message was edited by Thelonious Hink on June 11, 2001 at 20:09.]
[This message was edited by Thelonious Hink on June 11, 2001 at 20:13.]
[This message was edited by Thelonious Hink on June 12, 2001 at 14:46.]
Paulo,
Thanks for the brush! I downloaded it at In Depth Discussions. Before trying your brush, and after replacing my Painter.brs file, I rebuilt the RWB based on the Water Color brush's Broad Water Brush variant, then changed the Spacing to 15%.
Side by side, my newly built RWB and your RWB look exactly alike. They both perform the same way and I'm now getting some beautiful blending. Actually, and I didn't mention this at IDD, the brush I rebuilt based on the Broad Water Brush variant now works well with your 36% setting for Spacing.
It looks like basing it on the Broad Water Brush variant was the answer for me.
Thanks again for all your generous instruction, samples, and for sharing your great brush in the first place. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Jinny Brown
http://www.pixelalley.com
________________________
Paulo and Greg,
Greg, I must be facing East now.. too. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
Paulo,
I downloaded your brush and it works beautifully on my PC. I double checked all of the settings against what you posted in the recipe and there was only one tiny difference. In the recipe Size is 10.3. In your Real Water brush, Size was set at 10.9. Surely that couldn't make any difference.
Now I've tested your brush and my newly built brush side by side and they seem to be working exactly alike. I still get a little of the sudden return to full opacity while in blending mode but if I move the pen more slowly and carefully it doesn't happen so often and I'm learning how to pick up lighter areas and blend over those spots to make them disappear.
I'm getting some really beautiful blends now. This may be the best thing that's happened to Painter's Water Color brushes ever! I think Corel should give you a nice fat check for inventing this one and then incorporate it as one of the Painter 7 defaults!
It's working for me now! Yippee! [:D]
Jinny Brown
http://www.pixelalley.com
________________________
Hi all, or mostly all,
Sorry for posting basically the same message two times. I didn't realize we'd gone to two pages for this thread and thought that somehow my first one didn't get posted. Oh well.. now I know.
Thelonious,
We're happy. Is that a problem? Paulo's efforts, and his new brush are appreciated by a lot of people.
Quit complaining, and cheer up.. if possible.
Jinny Brown
http://www.pixelalley.com
________________________
the powder magazine.
well you people have finally got me thinking about watercolour. 98% of painter's brushes i never touch! hopefully now it will be more like 97.5%.
this thread has been extensive and should be seen by more people since it illustrates painter's very convincing watercolour effects amazingly. great work jinny, paulo and greg.
in some ways every brush effect should be shown like this, up close and personal, so people can really grasp the power of painter's technology. especially for those who are really interested in using software for serious art creation. the airbrush is spectacular. far superior to photoshop's. and no other program exploits the wacom drivers as thoroughly as painter does. geez Corel should have this kind of stuff you've presented here plastered all over their site!?
again, good work. you guys 'ave blown me away.
hey paulo. wait 'til you get your hands on P7. you'll be in heaven...
hmmm. maybe i should do a tutorial on 'How to Paint a Sexy Girl With Painter 6'. yeah, like Fritz Willis in a Walter Foster book!
[img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
stecyk66
[This message was edited by stecyk66 on June 10, 2001 at 23:09.]
Stecyk,
Happily, it is being seen by more people and the coverage of this brush is even more extensive due to extra samples posted by Cris Palomino in the Painter Forum at In Depth Discussions. I haven't checked since Sunday, and there may be more by now. If you'd like to take a look, the address is:
http://www.critical-depth.com/cgi-bin/idd/
I'm glad you like what Paulo and the rest of us have been doing. It's been a lot of fun and I hope you'll join in. With your painting skills, that should be a very productive addition to this exploration.
Thanks for the nice comments. Most of the praise, though, is deserved by Paulo for sharing his brush with us. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Jinny Brown
http://www.pixelalley.com
________________________
Jinny,
First, I want to thank you for mentioning this forum in the Painter list. I doubt I would have found it otherwise. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
I noticed you mentioned your Wacom drivers as version 4.52. FWIW, there are newer drivers available. I have 4.55 on my system and for all I know those might not be the newest. As you seem to have gotten the brush working as it should it's unlikely that drivers on your system were the culprits in the aberrant behavior you were seeing.
Martye
Hi Martye
hope you're enjoying the forum.
By the way you don't exactly have to be Brain of Britain to go to wacom.com and see that we are up to version 4.6.
Regards T
Hi there!
It's great to see you here, Martye. Thanks too for the reminder that I probably need to upgrade my Wacom driver. This seems to be upgrade week for me. First Netscape, then I finally gave in and upgraded to Painter 6.1 (Painter was misbehaving terribly and I got fed up!), and now the Wacom driver.
I hate all this upgrading stuff. I'd rather be playing. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
Hope you check out the IDD Painter Forum too.. as I said in an earlier message, there's more info there on Paulo's Real Watercolor Brush that's worth seeing. (Also, IDD has some other great forums and it's a wonderful community.)
I'd hate to miss out on all the great stuff found in the many Painter related communities... so I spend way too many hours reading all of them each day. The latest I've found is at Sijun.com. Though there's not a specific Painter forum, a good many threads under Digital Art Discussions are related to Painter.
Hope you'll be sharing some of your tips and techniques here. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Jinny Brown
http://www.pixelalley.com
________________________
jinny? you've been hanging around the Sijun forums?...funny [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]. i think the average age there is like..12 [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] . but there are some really talented people posting who make good use of painter in their work.
s.
Stecyk,
I have noticed some rather juvenile (delinquent) posts there, but also some pretty decent ones from people who try to be helpful and squash the worst of the trouble makers.
Anyway, I'm so ancient, what's a decade or two deeper into youth? (Besides, some 12 year olds are pretty neat. I have 5 grandchildren and they're all neat.. of course.)
Really, I see plenty of "adults" who behave with just as much immaturity in a few of the Painter related groups. If people are interested in learning and sharing what they know, that's all that really matters.
I'm probably old enough (and then some) to be your mom. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Jinny Brown
http://www.pixelalley.com
________________________
... okay i confess. i still like checking out the toy sections of department stores and check out the newest Legos! and the action figures and stuffed animals and toy guns...
[img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]
stecyk66
Been hang out there for over a year. Most of the posters are art students or artist employed in the computer gaming Industry. Really heavy into digtal art in there . Quite a few talented artists. It is always best to watch your step there is you can get flamed rather well.
One of the best forums on the net for digtal art though nothing else really comes close. web page
speaking of forums, another very good one is http://www.shaneglines.com
there is a very dedicated group of artists, illustrators and cartoonists (mostly cartoonists) that post there. and very talented too!
painter is one of the common digital tools used.
'66