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My current web design application allows the website structure to be defined and viewed. See below.
Attachment 128656
Does Xara Web Designer have this facility, or something like it?
My website has 164 individual pages.
Having to scroll through a single level list in the Page & Layer Gallery to find them looks like it could get both very annoying and tedious.
Yes. It is the Page & Layer Gallery. Pages and Layers can also be repositioned by dragging and dropping the title bars.
That isn't what I meant. What you're showing me is the structure of one page; I want to see the structure of the site.
The image I posted shows a tree view of every page in the site, with branches that can be expanded and collapsed.
The Xara Page & Layer Gallery just seems to show all of the pages in one long list.
For my site this would be a list 164 pages long. That's a lot to scroll through to find the page you want, and not easy if you want to see the overall organisation.
What I would do is Create a number of Horizontal NavBars.
1st-level for those with no sub-structure.
Then at 2nd-level those, e.g., Documentation expanded.
Make both repeating and place off-page above the page so they are visible but not published.
Elaborate as you choose with a 3rd-level or key links to a region of your design.
Acorn
OP: What is the name of your current program? Are you wanting to construct the site in an hierarchy or flat?
To create the same in Xara (not the site map) I'd use sub-sites. You could easily transfer your WebBuilder pages into a Xara site.
As you're discovering sorting through a 147 page site is a nightmare. So cut them up to sub-sites.
If you'd like further info please let me know.
You're solving the wrong problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Acorn
It's only a nightmare if I were to go with Xara. In my present editor, it's easy-peasy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Egg Bramhill
My site organisation is hierarchicalQuote:
Originally Posted by DanFelix
Don't think so.Quote:
Originally Posted by JWellbelove
I did not say publish. When you click on any link in the design you can then follow the link to the required page.
You can make the NavBars are layered as you like.
One day Xara will decide that hierarchical sites are useful. Until then consider what might be possible and accept suggestions as not other Forums would just have answered "No."
Acorn
Mmm, Thanks for thinking up a workaround, but it feels too much like an ugly hack, rather than a practical solution, to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Acorn
It looks like I'll have to give Xara a miss for a while until it has proper site management facilities.
to follow what acorn said:
that may well be a while; xara's current philosophy appears to be that any site requiring such an overview is better done in other software anyway, they are all for quick solutions for the less technically minded...
Definitely an ugly hack. By throwing it out there, Xara might slap-head itself for overlooking what real users need.Quote:
Originally Posted by JWellbelove
Acorn
we can but hope :)
I'm technically minded (I've been programming in C & C++ for nearly forty years), but for web design I need something non-technical. I don't have the time (or inclination) to learn the intricacies of CSS and HTML.Quote:
Originally Posted by handrawn
Moved to Dear Xara for bug reports and feature requests.
I used FrontPage for years before coming to Xara and that was only because Micro$oft dropped it, probably when CSS was on the rise. You could view your whole site in a searchable, navigable block diagram that showed all the links between pages. FP was very good at updating the whole site on- and off-line when you made changes. Your web host absolutely had to support the Frontpage extensions and not all of them did. FP was not as nice as Xara is to design in - tables in particular were tricky - and exact placement of objects was primitive by comparison. Xara has a lot of graphics effects built in and things stay where they're put. I used Xara 3D for many years to make funky titles to use in FrontPage :D My sites were pretty straightforward and logical and not much bigger than 50 pages tops.
. Just an aside - my wife watches the American house renovation programs where they say "Back-splash" where we Aussies say "Splash-back". We also say "Head-slap" ;))Quote:
Originally Posted by Acorn
In my neck of the woods, a 'Slap Head' is a slang word for a totally bald man.
If I might step in here. I have used Xara since 1996. And I have been a moderator for TG since Xara took over the forum from i/us many years ago. And during this time, I have heard over and over again, complaints because Xara does not work the same as X program. That it would be swell if Xara had a such and such feature.
Every software program has its pluses and minuses. Every single one. And every software program has its own way of doing things. My advice is always learn the program, learn how it works, how it flows, and get into the flow of the program. After a while things become more familiar and your work goes more smoothly.
My 2 cents. Unsolicited.
That's probably why Serif have not added a web design progie into their graphics suite. They used to have one years before they gave birth to Affinity, but dropped it long ago.
what you say is true Gary, but you can also look at it another way - life is short, worthwhile programs usually have learning curves, users who 'know what they are doing' will be looking for certain key [to them] features in a program before they jump in
they willl ask questions, it's what you do...
..... for instance:
https://www.talkgraphics.com/showthr...773#post632773
:D >:)
Mia Culpa - This is what happens when you try to do the first suggestion and then after 20 years....
you are quite correct about webp it is firmly established as a format and not having it makes xara look a bit 'quaint'
xara does not have a timeline for animations - sure you can do animations without a timeline in the good old fashioned x-sheet-esque way but for me, outside of a 1990's style gif, life is too short - the animation part of my brain thinks in terms of timelines and struggles vwithout them
although I don't build websites, if I did, I would want what the OP wants I am fairly sure....
I did a web search today for "Xara Web Designer Site Management"
I found a thread from 2010 asking "Does Xara have a site management view?"
10 years later...
I think the view "That's just how the software works, so live with it!" is just letting them off the hook.
For any non-trivial website, a site management view is such a staggeringly useful addition to the UI I can't understand why Xara have refused to add one.
Every other web design software I've tried has this feature. It's the only major reason that caused me to decide not to buy the product. I imagine there any many like me that download, try, and go elsewhere because of it.
The one thing this forum delivers is persistence. 10 years is small beer. In the interim, many have managed and handled larger sites; the trick is to work to the strengths and cherish the weaknesses.Quote:
Originally Posted by JWellbelove
The Page & Layer and Name galleries could be so much more with nesting folders/chapters that either publish flat or into a hierarchy. At the same time, at the object level, the attributes need to be exposed fully, including the built-in assets.
For your large documentation site, I personally would use Markdown and GitHub as a repository. If sticking with Xara, perhaps you could consider it as a PDF document instead.
Acorn
I 've been using xara for creating vector graohics for over 12 years - not as long as acorn has been using their product, but what ever you use it for, and whichever software you use, software companies design their software to be used in certain ways and they make trade offs in design, some of which work out and some of which come back to bite them... bit like life in general you might say
no it's accepting the situation as it isQuote:
I think the view "That's just how the software works, so live with it!" is just letting them off the hook.
if you are really sure you want to persue it you are wasting your time here - you should be lobbying xara directly with good solid examples of why you think it would make commercial sense for them to do this
that is also the way it is
Quote:
cherish the weaknesses
I will have to respectfully disagree very strongly with viewpoints such as those.Quote:
no it's accepting the situation as it is
Products should evolve to the needs of current, new and potential customers. Any company that ignores that risks slowly disappearing into obscurity.
I've learnt this as a software developer of 40 years.
I'm reminded of an old joke.
"I'll tell you, like I've told hundreds of other people; There's no demand for that!" :D
Well, I'd say that Xara is attached to several hooks and this isn't one that has much traction in the user community.Quote:
Originally Posted by JWellbelove
It is really useful and they haven't refused anything - it's a company that lets people request stuff and quietly (and slowly) adds new features and goes down new avenues pretty much as they wish.Quote:
For any non-trivial website, a site management view is such a staggeringly useful addition to the UI I can't understand why Xara have refused to add one.
You will have plenty to choose from then!Quote:
Every other web design software I've tried has this feature.
Personally I agree with you that it's definitely useful. Very few people actually request it.Quote:
It's the only major reason that caused me to decide not to buy the product. I imagine there any many like me that download, try, and go elsewhere because of it.
Xara has another omission that you didn't mention - Master Pages - that many have requested and still hasn't been implemented.
Personally for a documentation based system I'd be going for some form of CMS based system.
Returning to the site management aspect, there was one programme that did that beautifully - netobjects fusion - but don't even go there these days, it's at the end of it's life I think.
Attachment 128705
In the meantime:Quote:
Originally Posted by JWellbelove
:pointAttachment 128706
The Xara Desktop Application is a Tool, you just have to be creative enough.
Acorn
totally agree with the evolve bit - but one thing everyone has to learn sooner or later is that their own point of view is only one drum beat in a very large marching band - evolution has a nasty habit of not being unidimensional, it can branch out in many different ways.. that's rather the point is it not ?Quote:
Originally Posted by JWellbelove
and remarks like 'letting them off the hook' are not going to endear them to you
they are a commercial entity - no doubt as a software developer of 40 years you will uderstand exactly what that means