Does anyone know why this was dropped in Xtreme? This is a necessity for pro users.
I love the program...but this was NOT a good idea.
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Does anyone know why this was dropped in Xtreme? This is a necessity for pro users.
I love the program...but this was NOT a good idea.
This link may answer your question. http://www.talkgraphics.com/showthre...ht=separations
Post #5 is from Charles Moir, the CEO of Xara Ltd.
Unfortunately, it does answer my question. I'm a Screenprinting Graphic Artist. I started a long time ago with CorelDraw 3 (long, long time ago) and eventually became a Freehand user. Within the last year or so, I discovered Xara X1 and then upgraded to Xtreme. I find that I really LOVE using Xtreme...but without the ability to print seperations to burn screens...dissappointing. I really thought I found MY perfect program. I'll just keep wishing.
Thanks!
Hey GF, You need to find the last version of Xara called XaraX1. It has spots & CMYK printing. Nice to know there are others here at TG working in the textile print industry. Thanks for stopping in & posting.
For now you'll have to use layers to do your Xtreme seps. With X1 I've been able to use CMYK seps about 50% of the time, substiting print colors with CMYK. Other jobs are better done using the layer technique for print (1 color black, the rest white). Less than 10% of Xara created work (that I do) has to be channel seperated in PhotoShop. This percentage of using outside programs is going down, as I tend to design with Xara Sep in mind.
If you can't get hold of X1 then you'll have to wait for the Xtreme Pro version to be released. Don't know the timeline for this but my guess is that it'll be sometime next year (2007). Perhaps someone from Xara Group Ltd will step in give us a time frame.
Ok, I need some clarity! :)
I've thought of Xara Xtreme as the upgrade to Xara X1. I realize that Xara dropped some features and added some features from Xara X1. As this thread shows, the CMYK feature set of X1.
I followed Soquili's link to a thread discussing the imagesetting options of X1 and how Xtreme would be missing them.
After reading Charles response I'm more confused about X1 and Xtreme.
So, I have a few questions:
Is Xtreme the upgrade of X1? (I have both X1 and Xtreme and I thought it was.)
Charles mentions in the post from Soquili's link that "This does not rule out us bringing the feature back in future versions of Xara X." Does this mean that X1 is still a Xara product in development and not a previous version of Xtreme?
Then, based on my confusion, is there a chart of features of X1 and Xtreme with a simple check box by the features that each has? Much like this example of Corel's?
I would really like to see something like this. If there is one, just let me know where.
:)
Thanks,
XaraX1 is the previous version of XaraXteme. They changed the name because the code was completely re-written. Basically, Xtreme it's a new program that does what X1 did (almost - yet more). Xara Ltd re-wrote(streamlined) the code on one of the CorelXara upgrades years ago. If X1 is the grandson of CorelXara. XaraWebster would be the cousin that not many had heard of.
Xtreme is written in or with OpenSource code, X1 used C+ (me thinks).
RedWombat, I wanted to clarify further. The order of products is:
CorelXARA
Xara X
Xara X1
Xara Xtreme.
Collectively you may hear of these as the "Xara X family". When someone talks about future versions of Xara X, they mean post–Xara Xtreme.
Therefore Xtreme was an upgrade of X1, even if some features did go away. We've moved it to a much more general purpose everyday app, and dropped the price. To do this we had to make some removals such as Pantone support (which cost us for each copy we sold).
I think a lot of people would have appreciated the chance to pay a bit more for that support as an option. As things are now, you've cut away the feet from some of your userbase - probably the most important part of the userbase to boot.Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonyF
Thanks for the post. It helps a bit to understand. When I found some features removed I began to wonder if it was the upgrade, especially since the name changed.
Is there a chart like the one I posted before that shows the main feature sets of each so I can compare?
Thanks,
Yes, definitely, at least for the print options! Anyone can purchase Pantone products if he should need them.Quote:
I think a lot of people would have appreciated the chance to pay a bit more for that support as an option.
But you can't change 'mainstream' - more features the crowd not **really** needs, but less features for the serious user. I mean we all could use PS plug-ins with X1, but with the kinky plug icon in the tool box of xtreme only half of them are functioning now.
Too bad how things develop.
Maybe we should start a poll:
01. Would you spend US$ 10 for a patch that re-enables the print options of x1?
02. Would you spend US$ 60 or more for a patch that brings back Pantone colors?
But as I said: IMHO only 2% would be willing to pay the extra US$ 10, 98% of the users didn't even realize the print options are gone.
Mainstream. Political correctness. Soft society. Maybe the developers of my favorite CAD software will remove the third dimension (the Z axis) in the next release to be able to offer the software somewhat cheaper?
just my two cents for a few eyes and ears :D
I can't find the original post now, but I remember reading on this forum that someone posted to say that if you copy the contents of C:\Program Files\Xara\Xara X1\Palettes to C:\Program Files\Xara\Xara Xtreme\Palettes, that Pantone is once again available in Xtreme.Quote:
Originally Posted by jens g.r. benthien
I just tried it - I works, at least to look at. Perhaps users who rely on Pantone use more often can confirm.
Yes, it works, but I remember as well some copyright issues. However, IMHO, if you have created a template with all pantone colors and re-use it in xtreme: who will blame you?
And if you have x1 - which most of the users do - you have already paid for the pantone color system, so it shouldn't be a problem to continue using the pantone palette(s).
I didn't even notice the pantone colors are missing, because I've copied all templates to the new template folder - first task!
I don't know if Corel uses pantone colors, but if so, you can even copy the *.pal file to the xara directory.
I'm not sure if the licence explicitely excludes/prohibits this process...
Id really like to see a demographics breakdown of the "Xara" user and how they are using it. If indeed so few people actually used the Pantone palette and made seperations, then is a web design tool? If so, then is Xtreme really a "graphics" program? I can't imagine Illustrator or CorelDraw without those features. But yet they are the competition.
It was mentioned that no one would pay extra for those features. But yet I'll bet that most X1 users "upgraded" to Xtreme. X1 sold for $149, or at least when I bought it. And I thought that was a reasonable price (not that I don't like $79 better).
So is it really a cost, or a target marketing issue?
I suggest creating a VERY slimmed down version of Xtreme like utility program (sold seperately) that would work as a plug in, or on its own and allow you to open Xtreme files, and print seperations that way.
I continue to make the argument, that to be a contender, a graphics program must have these features.
GraphicsFactory, the slimmed down version is called XaraWebster. Not sure if XaraLtd is still developing it though. Why would they need to now?
Jens-I'd pay 10.00 in a heartbeat for CMYK! Heck I'd pay alot more if Xtreme gave us the option. CMYK is a must, - I can live without spots.
If I have a large graphic that needs sep'n (say 8 colors) I'll put 4 colors each on 2 layers, substituting on screen colors for CMYK. Each plate is printed black & as long as you have a color label (spot name) for the each plate, everything works fine on the presses. Once thing that Xara could use are some "STOCASTIC DOT" print option, as a gradient transitions, all the X1 dot options are band when approaching the 25-0% range. TOO MUCH BANDING! Have you noticed this GraphicsFactory?
Jens - What printer are you using. We have an Epson Sylus Pro 7200 & it's slow, plus the software is a ripoff. What are you using for your large format printing? You mentioned it the other day but I don't think you listed what it was.
wW,
We are using a modified HP inkjet and a Calcom (no longer available). If we need a surface coating like uv protection or glossy finish we send the files (hi res *.tif or *.eps) to a shop in the next city. They can print up to 3 x 4 meters - seamless at high resolution. They always keep telling me that they print @ 100 dpi, but you can squeeze your nose to the print without seeing one single dot. It's an amazing quality, and the process is their best kept secret.
I'd even churn out 100 US$ for a CMYK option or plug-in :DQuote:
Heck I'd pay alot more if Xtreme gave us the option. CMYK is a must, - I can live without spots.
Yea Jens, those that used CMYK print options took a hit with the new release. Shouldn't be too long a wait for the fix. (relative to other xara releases). For now, X1 is working fine.
I couldn't in good concience let my boss order any more versions of Xtreme without CMYK. I did however purchase a personal copy (as yet -unused-) to support Xara. The least I could do as I'm sure many others have done. Got a manual out of it. Glad they made one for the program. More a collectors item as I have a couple original manuals from CorelXara as well. I'll dig it up & post it on e-bay if anyones interested. First let me check to make sure they have'nt disappeared on me.
Now that I think about it (very dangerous=me thinking). There are some holes that need to be addressed with the XaraCMYK print dialog. I hope the've taken note of some of things we've listed on past list regarding fixes for CMYK print dialog.
The CMYK in X1 works, but it could work much better with a few changes, additions & or improvements. Basically it needs some tweeking & re-work.
I agree - like in Freehand MX!
As mentioned before, but just because we removed CMYK print separations from Xara Xtreme does not mean it's missing forever for all versions.
(We removed it partly because it's not an appropriate feature for a more mass-market, easier-to-use, lower cost product that Xara Xtreme is. Few professionals understand the complexities of colour separations, let alone the mass majority of normal users. It was one of our most costly features in terms of customer support, because of the complexity of concepts.)
In the meantime Xara X1 can accept most Xara X files and will separate them. Also Xara Xtreme can create separated CMYK files (practically the same thing as producing separated print files) by exporting as TIFF with the CMYK option selected.
I think the Xara product positioning is becoming a real mystery.
Facilities used by high-end users are removed and still the product is described as an upgrade.
You explain that users can still have separations by using X1 a product no longer available through Xara, so separation is only available for existing customers, not new ones.
Finally, the ultimate confusion by saying that in the future, the removed facility may come back.
It doesn't look like a coherent marketing position to me.
If you want to chase a less sophisticated market and give up some high end users, so be it, but it seems to me that Xara gets it's support mainly from more sophisticated users who have the patience and the will to know how good it is and to use it properly. I don't see it or it's marketing as that of a low-end program which seems to be where you want to take it. I would suspect that for the existing userbase, price isn't such an issue. What is probably more of an issue is not extending the product except by way of trying to chase a market share (where there are already many competitors) using bitmaps.
The inclusion of bitmap support seems to have happened at the expense of anything else. I wish the focus had remained in keeping the software as a vector based product - the best that could be bought, rather than try and make it a swiss-army knife.
Personally, the most interesting thing for me has been PDF support - which has been frustrating - it goes so far, yet stumbles because it doesn't support multiple pages and is hampered by it's interpretation of layers.
OK, I've already said enough. Perhaps I don't understand the market for Xara well enough.
Paul
Understood. Anxiously awaiting the Xtreme Pro Release. Timeline? A year(more, less?)Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Moir
Is CMYK going to be upgraded & revitalized or put back in as it was? We can start a CMYK "print option upgrade request" thread if needed. Hopefully it won't be needed as most ideas will have been logged. Yes?Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Moir
I could seperate Vectors in Xtreme as well. But I'd have to use the layer technique, 1 for each color. Which works but isn't be needed with every sep. I don't recall Xtreme giving any dot size print control (default of 120 line perhaps - not sure the default angle). So each layer would have be cut & paste back into X1 for printing. It's easier to stay in X1 if ya have to go thru that. Plus the lack of Dot size, Dot choice & or angle. The Xtreme print dialog is good for basic printing only.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Moir
Yes Bitmaps can be exported as CMYK. In X1 I've used this in conjunction with RGB for help with pulling channels in PhotoShop.
Thanks for popping in Charles. It's re-assuring knowing that your here.
I spent the past days working with Xara Xtreme on a quite complex drawing which is to be used in a printed flyer, just to find out now that Xara Xtreme seems to be missing the level of CMYK support I need to complete my task.
Being a long time user of Xara products (in fact, I already used Artworks, which isn't strictly a Xara product) I am somewhat used to this, but nontheless it is very frustrating, especially with all the noise Xara is making about "enhanced PDF export", which then turns out to only produce RGB colours (at least I wasn't able to produce anything else).
By searching for a solution to my problem I stumbled over this thread. Now I do know that I wasn't just unable to find the right options, but that they are simply missing in Xtreme. Which is a real shame. As others already mentioned I too would be willing to pay considerably more for a Xara X version which would better address the needs of professional users. Full CMYK and spot colours support simply is a must there. I realy don't like the idea to be forced to use Freehand or Illustrator instead of Xara X...
The hint to use CMYK TIFF export to solve the problems is a joke to me - to say it kindly. If I use a vector graphics tool to generate graphics, this happens most of the time because I want to make use of the superior quality this gives over pixel graphics. Thus this definitely isn't a solution for me.
But I don't want to end this post this negative, so I'll add two additional points to it:
- I also use Xara Xtreme to create graphics I use on web sites and thus I do love the new features of Xtreme.
- I have found a solution for my particular problem: I just print the whole thing to a file using a (colour) PostScript printer driver (a generic one from Adobe in my case) and import the result with either Acrobat (not the Reader) or Illustrator (for further "optimisations"). As long as I make sure that all colours used are defined in CMYK mode this works quite well. The only point still missing in this process is the support for overprinted colours (i.e. those are defined in Xara Xtreme but aren't cared of in the printout - to me this is "just" a bug of Xara Xtreme).
This is very close to the point I was trying to make earlier. It seems to me that with the removal of such features as CMYK and Spot Color support and printing, that Xara Xtreme is now only suited for "web graphics". But that is not the way it is marketed. The claim is that it is a "replacement" for Illustrator, Freehand etc., but it is NOT. If you work in the print world, in some way or another you still these programs. If so, than what is the point in using Xtreme? Is that not a little self defeating? Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Xtreme...but I need the WHOLE package. Not just a little "web graphics" utility. Is'nt that what Webster is for?