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XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
No new vector tools. I don't know how they have the gall to give it a new version number.
The Headline features are :
Content-Aware Scaling (Auto-crop = useful)?!?!?
Better Object Gallery (How many people use this any way)
Website Export (Suprise Suprise)
Spell Check as you type (useful but doesn't really help you draw better)
Other Text Tool Enhancements (hahahhaha)
OMG, nothing new at all.
Looks like Xara Ltd have forgot about their core users yet again. Please who use the product to draw.
5.0? You have to be kidding me .... 2.4 more like.
What does everyone else think?
PS I feel sick to my stomach like the horrid feeling you get when you find out your girlfriend has been cheating on you.
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
The majority of the development time since V4 I think was spent on improving the web export to produce a full web authoring tool. I read somewhere on TG a while back that this approach was because website making was a bigger deal nowadays than web graphics only. Now that this work is done with only the usual incremental improvements left, I'm guessing there'll be more of what you want in future versions. I understand where you're coming from, but I do like version 5 of what I've seen so far.
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
The new Object Gallery is very useful if you use Groups, Bevels, Blends, Contours, or Layers. If you have need to modify a shape inside a complex group, select the beginning or end shape of a blend, etc.
Simply select it within the Object Gallery and it is selected in your work area. The popup thumbnail view when you hover your mouse pointer over a shape in the Object Gallery help identify the specific shape you desire to edit.
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
I am disappointed. Xaras drawing tools really need an update.
Should really be Xtreme 4.5
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
well - there is the improvement to the freehand drawing, which will help me a lot :)
the graduated transparency :):)
the object gallery [ie revamped/renamed layer gallery] looks good - and I use layers a lot ;)
content aware scaling sounds interesting and useful...
so thanks to xara team for the release, and the work you have put in, I'm looking forward to giving it the road test :)
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JokeArtist
No new vector tools. I don't know how they have the gall to give it a new version number.
The Headline features are :
Content-Aware Scaling (Auto-crop = useful)?!?!?
Better Object Gallery (How many people use this any way)
Website Export (Suprise Suprise)
Spell Check as you type (useful but doesn't really help you draw better)
Other Text Tool Enhancements (hahahhaha)
OMG, nothing new at all.
Looks like Xara Ltd have forgot about their core users yet again. Please who use the product to draw.
I have to agree with you regarding the absence of new vector tools. I feel the same. But i´m confident that Xhris is right, now that the core tools of wysiwyg web authoring are in place. We just have to wait a little more... i know... again... true.
But you are going too fast about what they have implemented. The new object galley is great. You have to really try it to see its advantages in complex drawings. You now have much more control over all the objects.
The spell-checker is usefull and hopefully paves the way to an hyphenator, maybe still one of the biggest missing features in xtreme for desktop publishing (actually the justify button is useless)
Anchored objects (images shapes whatever that retain their position relative to text) makes the production of layouts for print and for web much more convenient and easy. Add repeating objects to that, plus a better control of pages trought the object gallery and you can start to get the picture (master pages coming?).
There´s some improvements to some drawing tools. Reposition a rotated object to his vertical or horizontal position is much more easy. Transparency now supports several steps (like gradients). Freehand Tool has been improved for sketching/tooning etc etc...
There´s tons of info at the Xara website and it´s worth to take a look at every single improvement they have made. And there´s tons of them :)
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
There seem to be a lot of new and useful features in this version, I can't wait to give it more of a workout!
I guess if there's one bad thing about it, it's that everyone in the forums is forced to purchase this new version even if they don't like the new features, which really seems heavy handed to me. :rolleyes:
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Odat how are people forced to purchase the new version?
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Odat
..... it's that everyone in the forums is forced to purchase this new version ......
I really don't think that anyone is forcing people to buy this release ...
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Contour Default = 4
Nuff Said.
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JokeArtist
Contour Default = 4
Nuff Said.
Oh yeah, I guess that issue we discussed some time back didn't get addressed in this release. Maybe next time. It must be hard having a small development team as well, being forced to prioritise and focus on just a couple of main things per release. I realise I just have to be patient at times.
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Soquili
Odat how are people forced to purchase the new version?
Oh sorry, I just assumed that since JokeArtist is already complaining about the missing features (and how even though there's new features nothing is new) that he was expressing some sort of malcontent at being forced to buy something.
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Drawing
- Slightly improved sketch freehand drawing, allowing rapid repeated freehand strokes
This is the only drawing improvement or new feature ?
I find it very disappointing. Most of the upgrade is just web site WYSIWYG fluff. This will probably be the first time I will not upgrade. :(
Sorry Xara,
I have to agree with Joke artist on this one a big let down. This is supposed to be or used to be a drawing program....
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
In general, I have been disappointed with recent upgrades too.
Xara seem to have decided to concentrate on Web design, rather than illustration. No doubt a sensible commercial choice. We have to live with what direction they choose.
Having said that, I love the new object gallery, almost worth the upgrade price alone to me -almost. Along with the new soft or "Multi-layer" grouping, this will help me with images that have many objects on many layers.
I have to ask, why wasn't the new object gallery combined with the name gallery? At the very least, you would expect the names of named objects to show up in the object gallery, instead of Line, group, etc. Still, the object gallery extends the functionality of layers massively. Nice one Xara.
The mask mode looks interesting, not exactly what I hoped it would be. Naughty Xara, you made my heart skip a beat when I first saw that, but still, I will spend some time looking at it.
Freehand sketching is improved, nice little touch that.
The double-click tool selection is another nice touch.
The repeating object function may be interesting, where if you duplicate an object (or group?) and designate it as a repeating object, then altering one instance of it applies the alteration to all the other copies. I wonder if this can be done within a single page or only across multiple pages? Something to look at.
The multi stage transparency? Hmm... that's O.K., but not something I will make massive use of.
I'm sure there are lots of not-so-obvious changes to discover. From what I have seen up to now, I wouldn't say this is a "duff" upgrade, but nor would I rave about it.
It is a good step forward.
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
I tend to agree with JA and Bruce, it seems to be catering more for web enthusiasts than vector enthusiasts.
There are some cool features, but no new vector tools.
Not really worth the price of an upgrade in my opinion.
Edit: Mark posted whilst I was typing my reply. He says it better than I did.
Saludos,
Bob.
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Sadly, I agree with Mark and others in this thread: version 5 is a step forward, but man, what a little step after more than one year!
As have been said, stuffing Xtreme with web features doesn't make sense: there is already Web Designer for that!
Another vote to call this release 4.5 .
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
There is the update to rounded rectangle resizing and Illustrator import...count those in when talking about missing drawing features.
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
The graphics world is much larger than pure vector drawing. I like to draw also, but find that I do much more of the "other" graphics. I like 5.1 and think it is worthy. The object gallery is something I have been complaining for for about 10 years.
I have only heard whining for more drawing tools for a few years... better practice a little more on your whining and crying skills.:)
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
I agree.. this should be 4.5 and not 5...
A few adjustments, that's all.. and the funny thing is, when I make my custom dimensions of a page, it cries that I've filled in improper values (when I fill in e.g. 900px and 600px - without 'px' it's OK - strange)...
Another thing: I can finally write the Polish "ł" character (right ALT + L) but.. now right ALT + C makes a copyright sign... WTF?
I personally use Xara as "CorelDraw for web graphics" (CorelDraw sucks so much with web graphics I just had to switch to something and I found Xara, fortunately) but the new WYSIWYG features - man, I just can't stand them... who creates web pages directly in a gfx program and then exports it with stupid mouseover or something? Come ooon.. we're pros, not children or ++++++ &!*))$&)!&#(* designing web pages with their shiny Apple rubbish software (two clicks and you've got a web page - buah).
So the web tools are crap for me, useless stuff, really..
I was just about to buy "5" but due to some technical problems I guess (your purchasing site crashes for me) and after some more moments with "5" trial I guess I will have to do just the same thing I do every year with Corel... I buy every second edition skipping one at a time (12, X4...).
Well, one thing is nice... the upgrade price and this might be something which might... I repeat, might make me buy it.. let's face it - 30 pounds is nothing.
But generally... I was waiting for something more...
Shame on you, Xara
Milo, Poland
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
raynerj1
I have only heard whining for more drawing tools for a few years... better practice a little more on your whining and crying skills.:)
Well done you ... give yourself a well deserved pat on the back.
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
raynerj1
The graphics world is much larger than pure vector drawing.
I think that's the whole point. Xara Xtreme has always been first and foremost a vector graphics application, but now it's turning, no doubt for economically sound, market-driven reasons, into an "all things to all men" all-round graphics program, jack of all trades and master of none. It's understandable, therefore, that those vector enthusiasts who have cried out for certain vector tool improvements for a long time should be disappointed. It also doesn't help that the people at Xara tell us absolutely nothing until the day of launch. I mean, look at the Dear Xara forum... loads of requests and nary a peep from Xara towers.
Anyway, I'll definitely pay my £49 to upgrade, because I'm a self-confessed Xara fanboy! :D
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Very well said, Dave. This surely echoes the feelings of a lot of members.
By the way, the new avatar is superb - joint #1 with Bob Hahn's.
Saludos,
Bob.
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kinetica
It also doesn't help that the people at Xara tell us absolutely nothing until the day of launch. I mean, look at the Dear Xara forum... loads of requests and nary a peep from Xara towers.
not strictly true - the freehand tool enhancement and the multi-stage transparency were announced ahead of release, and the inclusion of XWD features was a fair bet ;)
as for the general silence - that's for sound commercial reasons
BTW: if you don't have a product that will sell well, soon you will have no product at all, and those that have not yet got the enhancements they seek will then never get them... current financial climate does not help :(
and sometimes you have to do things in a certain order.... to facilitate what people are asking for... that includes rewriting code for example, which takes a while and should not be rushed
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
iamtheblues
By the way, the new avatar is superb
You don't find it looks a little cynical? Maybe I need a more cheerful one now that XXP5 is out :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
handrawn
BTW: if you don't have a product that will sell well, soon you will have no product at all ... >
Agreed, which is why I said "no doubt for economically sound, market-driven reasons". But it is evident from the posts to date that a significant proportion of users are disappointed. And that would have included you were it not for a couple of new features. That's really all I was saying.
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Reading about the new version, and what/why features are still missing, I came to think about society in general. The taxpayers supporting the deadbeats. The hard working supporting the loafers. I think in this instance, it's the web/html market that is "supporting" the vector people, in a good way.
If Xara had thought more vector tools would double profits, they would have done it already, no questions asked. But apparently, html tools and the web market mean more bang for the development buck in the near term, and hence the focus. I would guess that although xara would have wanted to improve vector tools, it would have been a continued coasting of sales, where the "all things, all people" approach brings in more immediate revenue, in order to keep the company going, hopefully to, next, implement more vector tools. Still, the program doesn't seem to have ballooned to magix proportions, so "all things to all people" for xara development people is more like "smart things for smart people"-- still keeping it lean and mean-- program size and performance that it.
So the html tools can more broadly sell more of the product, allowing revenue to be now used for vector development as well.
I hope I have that right....
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Earlier in the year, I made a post along the lines of "couldn't see where Xara was going" and "is a great British software institution going to go to the wall", then along came Web Designer. OK, I'm no graphics guru, web design is my little niche, so XWD was a most welcome addition to the Xara stable.
It is realistic to expect that a lot of people will make the move from Web Designer to Xtreme, after all what is the extra £29, it's peanuts! This will open their eyes to the potential of Xtreme in other areas and maybe they'll end up going for Pro, so in a roundabout way, the advent of the web capability could be the sprat that catches the mackerel.
When I was involved in football, it was a case of "bums on seats", when you came up from the boardroom, you first looked how many people were in the ground, not who was playing in the team. I'd imagine software houses are no different, it's about how many licences you sell, everything else is a bonus. Roll the clock back twenty years and look at Impression and Artworks, the cutting edge programs of their day but wrong platform, you have to evolve to survive and Xara has. For a basic site, I think that the code-slinging purists now have a fight on their hands.
Not what a graphics artist might want to hear but from a web designers perspective, pretty good. Look ahead to Xara Xtreme 6 and think what the web capabilities might be then!
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
w00dy
Look ahead to Xara Xtreme 6 and think what the web capabilities might be then!
No! Argh! Please God No!
I'm a web designer ... I've played about with XWD ... it's complex and gives crappy outputs ... not acceptable for a professional job for a client.
I've not upgraded since 3.2 and would have paid at least £200 for some new vector tools because I love xara for drawing ... but for nothing else. Period.
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
JokeArtist - that is SO true what you've written!
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JokeArtist
I'm a web designer ... I've played about with XWD ... it's complex and gives crappy outputs ... not acceptable for a professional job for a client.
Could you please expand on this? What is complex and what is crappy? What is lacking in XWD that makes it non-professional?
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Boy,
Better not react on the statements JA makes,
He is always P**ing at everything here and complaining as if life hurts only him by not complying to his every wish.
I think a professional is someone who works with every tool available to make whatever endproduct.
If you can't handle a tool,learn how,but don't blame another or something else
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
I still like to hear his opinions. And Sponsi can jump in as well since he has similar views.
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Non conformism is nice,but get's you only that far.
Everyone has opinions,i can think of a thing or two i'd like to have in Xtreme.
It's the tone of the statements that brushes of many of the members.
He has some points but he makes me think he is a spoiled,only child,the way he is kicking and screaming.
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Look at it the other way - maybe you are just fanboys accepting anything the company offers?
If it wasn't for the people who "want more", we would still use MS Paint.
As for my views, I've written enough of them earlier. The whole idea of taking more web design into Xara products simply doesn't seem compatible with the usual moves designers make. Xara Web Designer is at this point of development when it's not enough for some people and it's too much for others.
Besides...how many of you really are web designers? I guess when it comes to raster, raster designers should shout.. when it comes to vector tools, vector designers should shout (and they shout - and come on, you can see what they are saying: too little of change this time when it comes to vector tools), when it comes to making Xara more into web design, web designers should shout... and we shout. Let people have their say. Another thing is that there are many different methodologies for web design. As for me.. well, I wrote about it earlier - I am NOT interested in poor, simplistic HTML mouse over stuff... this is not contemporary web design.
Someone wrote somewhere else in this forum that this is for people who don't have advanced technical knowledge about building web sites... well... they won't have this knowledge with new Xara Web Designer or Xara 5 or 6 or any other tool... it comes with time and practice.. you either go into the web designing business "all the way" or stop pretending. Simplistic tools only make the Internet worse because of low quality (I mean technical - programming quality) - such tools as Web Designer promote "one click web site creation". And the industry ends up with self-made poor stuff... someone else mentioned the economic reasons for such development, or such direction.. and you know what - this distorts the industry and the web design market as well... and might turn out the opposite. This is probably why Photoshop and its CS web design collection is so expensive (I guess if Xara was taken over by Adobe it would not be 100 pounds but 500 or so). But this is a deeper discussion I guess. Let's not make such a big offtopic here.
And... I don't need the changes which are offered to me with "5"... or let's say - these changes are not enough for me to call the new version a "5"...
That's all, nothing else. Can you just take such views into consideration without going personal? Nothing personal here, we love Xara like you do! It might be the situation here that this is the moment when Xara is beginning to be "for everything".. and there's this danger that it might end up being for nothing and for no one.
My final thoughts:
Xara Xtreme should come out with number 5 like in 2-3 months with more vector tools and Xara Web Designer should have been more thought over so that it's "Xara for web" and not a customization studio for everyone (meaning "for no one"). Generally good thinking but much worse implementation of the idea which was supposed to bring commercial success.
EDIT (I don't want to create numerous posts):
haakoo.. well.. I don't know JA, I've only been a few times here but I remember times when I was completely ****ed at something (very often it was CorelDraw when suddenly it turned out it wasn't a good choice for a web designer).
I can't agree with living with what is offered to me. If I have a forum where I can express my dissatisfaction, I will use it.
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Actualy my nature is more like yours and that of JA.
I don't like a lot of things that aren't the way i like them to be.
I grew up and made me think of things before reacting to things at hand.
So maybe i'm getting soft but i have less trouble with my pears,
this in contrast to people like JA.
I already said he has points but his tone i don't like.
Freedom of speach/opinion doesn't mean that the one who shouts the loudest,always get's what he wants.
So live with the tools at hand or be off.
If there's nothing to wish for anymore,one could rather be dead.
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sponsi
Xara Xtreme should come out with number 5 like in 2-3 months with more vector tools .
Yeah it's my impression also, all eggs seems to be in the same basket. I guess you cannot make everybody happy.
Although I can understand the huge amount of man-hours just to implement a layering system and cross-layer group functionality that works properly.
Xtreme is still the best for speed and workflow by far, but I was also hoping for new vector tools.
Marc
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Until you popped in Hans, this post was about criticizing a piece of software and asking questions about that, you are the one that is taking it to the level of personal criticism.
time for you to chill.
adios
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
No arguing people... keep it on a technical level. None of this discussion should be personal in any way.
Everyone has a right to discuss their feelings on the software at hand, but not on how they perceive others views.
Keep in mind, this is a very vast community with countless personalities. Let the mods decide if one's comments are not acceptable. ;)
On another note, Xara is unique, in the way that it does not perform only one function.. it is more than just a vector tool, and the developers can only concentrate on so many areas at one time per release.
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
I must agree with what most of JA has written here in this thread the cry from most of the drawers here has been about vector tools and the lack of updates. In the last 10 years how many new vector tools have we had? Now I am talking vector tools here not bitmap special effects so that excludes things like Live Effects, 3D Tool, Bevel Tool and Shadow Tool. There is not much left on your tool bar to exclude and when I open my version of Illy, only CS3 I am afraid to say and then look at version 8 on my laptop and look at the changes there it is a different ball game.
However what has it cost me to upgrade? £34, that is the price of a plugin. With this sort of pricing I have upgraded because with the extra tools given. It will stop me even more from reaching for PS and Word and a Screen Capture Tool. So what is there to loose!
But come on Xara Team it is now your turn to give me decent vector Brushes, decent Line Profiles and maybe a Gradient Mesh Tool. As JA stated he would be willing to pay £200 on a substantial upgrade and it would stop me from giving the same amount of money to Adobe if this type of upgrade continues from Xara as we are falling behind.