I would like to see the ability within Xtreme to create spirals like Dmitry Malutin's SPX Spiral Generator. I know that this can be done with a 3rd party app, but it would be nice to have it in house.
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I would like to see the ability within Xtreme to create spirals like Dmitry Malutin's SPX Spiral Generator. I know that this can be done with a 3rd party app, but it would be nice to have it in house.
I can't see a use for spirals (I don't mean that in a trolling way, i just can't see a creative use for them). When I saw the feature in Inkscape, just thought it was just a gimmicky toy. What creative uses can a spiral be put to?
This scroll was made using spirals and the extrusion tool.:)
Saludos,
Bob.
I was going to say scroll work as well. However, I was thinking more along the lines of Iron scroll work in fences and lavish decorative scroll work in wood carvings and crown moldings etc. I can see lots of decorative applications for spirals. I'm sure that other artists could as well. Demetri did, otherwise he wouldn't have created the shareware application.
Eric
agree - likely far more artistic than anything else
you could always do them in inkscape and import into xxp5 as pdf - but again, not the in house solution Eric wants...
There are quite a few people on the forum using spirals to make theme backgrounds etc.. Look at the example design by Suvek in this thread
I just used Dmitry Malutin's SPX Spiral Generator the other day to create the center for a pinwheel (detail shown below). It would have been handy having the ability to generate the spiral from Xtreme as it took me a while to locate where I had stashed the utility on my hard drive. I've used the spiral application for several other projects, as well, and I had trouble locating it then, too. You'd think I'd put a shortcut to it someplace obvious, like my Quick Launch Toolbar. :rolleyes:
Since Dmitry already has a working version of the spiral generator why not license the code from him and integrate it into the next release of Xara Xtreme?
Just a thought,
Harry
.
I was also thinking about making interesting borders and dividers like this example here. This is just a quick and dirty example but should certainly get you thinking on the right track. I created only 1 spiral and copied it over and over as needed. However, I can certainly imagine multiple and very different spirals adding to the artistry of a drawing.
Eric
I agree with Harry. I use Dmitry's SPXE too. I think it would make a welcome addition. Here is a quick example of something I created with SPXE and XXP5
Ok, you've got easy access to Dmitry's spiral generator, and it's free. Why would you want to complicate Xtreme's UI with something you can use perfectly well as it is?
Adding bells & whistles makes an app heavier and more complex. Just think about Adobe Acrobat and CorelDraw. They both try to include everything you could possibly want, and the result is two very bloated hogs that are slow by comparison to other apps and cumbersome to use. Both apps have some nice features, but you have to wade through a lot of lard to get to them. ;)
Please keep our beloved Xtreme lean and fast. I'd rather have an athlete than a hog.
Tools and functions don't all have to live in the same house. They just have to work well together and and play nicely with the other kids on the block. :)
Alyson, (I hope that is spelled correctly)
While I understand your concerns about bloat to a great and streamlined product, I'm not sure that this applies to this particular tool. While adding anything to an object will increase the object's size, this particular bit of code is so small that it downloaded virtually instantly onto my computer. I can't imagine that the overall size increase to Xtreme would be noticeable.
As for why I want it included when it is available externally... I guess it is like having a tool box with a standard set of tools (Xara in it's current state), but knowing that you need a specialized tool that at certain times will be very useful. Do you get the tool and store it in a different place (a specialized tool cabinet)? Meaning that every time you want to use that tool, you have to stop what you are doing and go search through the specialized tool cabinet for the tool that you need. Or do you get the tool and add it to your tool box, so it is there where you need it and when you need it.
So the reason that I would like the tool is for my work flow. I and a few other artists here that have chimed in, would find it a useful addition to Xara's tool kit.
I hope that my reasoning is clear.
Eric
Allison,Quote:
Originally Posted by amoore
Previously, you've recommended using the Quickshape Tool to create stars and polygons instead of drawing them by eye, using a plug-in or a 3rd party application. We'd like to be able to do the same thing using a Quickshape Tool for Spirals from within Xara Xtreme for the same reason, it would be easier. And why should we limit the new feature to just plain old round spirals? As long as we're asking, why not have the developers implement the new Spiral feature in an Xtreme fashion! Look at what Andrew's Vector Spiral Plug-in #13 for Adobe Illustrator can generate. Now that's cool! Just think of all the retro 1960s and '70s material we'd then be able to produce. :)
Eric's reply, "While adding anything to an object will increase the object's size, this particular bit of code is so small that it downloaded virtually instantly onto my computer. I can't imagine that the overall size increase to Xtreme would be noticeable.", regarding you're concern for bloated software is dead on. The code for Dmitry's SPXE generator and Andrew's Vector Spiral AI plug-in are both 200K or less. That is almost nothing in today's software world. Actually a lot of documents now produced using traditional word processors generate file sizes greater than 200K. Part of the code is probably already resident in Xara Xtreme, which would also limit the 'bloat' factor.
Just my 3 cents and vote for an integrated Xtreme Quickshape Spiral Generator Tool,
Harry
Ooooh.... I like that AI plug-in....
Actually, I do store specialized tools separately. I use my entire hard drive as a multi-drawer file cabinet with named partitions and clearly defined folder trees. Specialized tools/utilities/add-ons such as the Spiral Generator live in clearly named subfolders associated with the application they work with or the type of function they perform.Quote:
Originally Posted by bcire68
Similarly, my Start Menu is organized in groups, as are the icons on my desktop. All the specialized tools for Xtreme have icons on the desktop in a segregated group. I can find almost any tool — even those I rarely use — in the same amount of time it would take me if they were incorporated into Xtreme's interface, and possibly less.
Your reasoning is clear, Eric. I just disagree with it. :)
And, Harry, in the post you cite, I wasn't recommending the use of the QuickShape tool. I was using it as a way to provide other information. :D Regardless, the QuickShape tool has been part of the interface at least since CorelXara. Comparing Xtreme's toolkit to those in other graphics and DTP apps I use, I would consider the QuickShapes tool a fundamental.
As for the size of the code involved in Dimitry's utilities, that's not really the issue. As you say, 200k is nothing these days. (OTOH, you don't know how much more might be required to integrate it.) The problem is, you're taking a short term view. Adding specialized tools to an interface quickly becomes a slippery slope. You've already gone from Dmitry's lovely, simple app to lusting after something much more complex, and we're just talking about a spiral generator.
If you stuff your grocery cart, it gets harder to push. (Plus it'll take you longer to check out and cost you more money to pay for it.;))
Look, we've all cited various improvements in what was the Layer Gallery. The new Object Gallery looks cool and has some nice features. But — there are delays in response time. Selection isn't always registered instantly. Neither is turning visibility/ locking on or off. Moreover, using the OG is costing me extra work. For example, default page naming has vanished. Little thing, but it adds up. Worse, copy/paste now respects layers. That means you can no longer select items on multiple layers and drop them onto a new single layer in one go. You can't even drop them onto a new page or a new document without getting all the layers.
Either you have to copy/paste one by one in order, or you have to hard group them, copy the group, ungroup, then paste into the new layer (and hope you haven't munged something in the process). Depending on what you're doing, retaining layers is useful or a PITA. Is that what you want throughout the interface?
Allison (don't worry about the misspelling, Eric; happens all the time :D)
PS, if someone has a better solution for pasting without the layers, please let me know. I'll be very grateful.
Agreed, maybe there should be a special 'paste with layer' command.Quote:
Originally Posted by amoore
Marc
Allison,
My sentiments exactly. I completely understand your reasoning, yet I disagree. :) I guess we can 'agree to disagree' as they say.Quote:
Originally Posted by amoore
Eric
I was curious if Illustrator plugin can do more than SPX-E, and found that I can achieve many variations with combination of SPX output and Xara tools (mould tool, pressure profiles, etc).
See pics
For me the power of Xara is in fact, that I can achieve complex results by using combinations of simple tools.
BTW, Xara team agrees that spirals would be nice addition to Quick Shapes tool, but as I understood, they haven't enough resources to implement such a low priority feature.
From my side, unfortunately, I have no enough skills to implement it in C++ and integrate into Xara code.
So, I think in this situation SPX-E is a quite good solution.
For me,
I would rather have the ability to create my own line shapes.
SPX-E works very nicely.
Rich.
Did you check the three 'Utilities/Options/General/Importing layers' options? You can retain the layer names you copy from, copy into new layers or copy into the active layer.Quote:
Originally Posted by amoore
Allison,Quote:
Originally Posted by amoore
I humbly apologize for the misquote from one of your previous posts. :o
I still don't see where a 'Create Spirals' function integrated into the QuickShape Tool is that big of a deal to the user interface and code size. Of all the improvements and additions that have been done since I started using Xara Xtreme 3.2, I would think that the addition of some code to generate Spirals would be but a drop in the bucket. Although, from what you say, you seem to think it may be the straw that'll break the camel's back. Also, if I can extrapolate from your quote shown above, if a Spiral Tool was included, in some form, in CorelXara's interface it would be OK to have. But, since it wasn't, we can't have it considered for inclusion now?
I'll go with the 'we'll agree to disagree' and move on to creating another stereogram, or two, with XX. And I'll console myself with the point that Dmitry made, "...they haven't enough resources to implement such a low priority feature." Sometimes, even though there are bigger fish to fry, it's nice to make a nice Jello® Salad (ie.- something that looks nice, is easy to whip together, isn't very filling, and keeps the kids quiet for a short period of time ;)).
A good debate,
Harry
Then again, you can always scrap the whole thing and waste some time with Xara Xtreme making your own shaped spirals. :cool: It's a bit tedious, but it works! :D
What I can say?
Just give us a tool -- we would find a way how to use it! :D
We'll you could always create and export a vector Spiral QuickShape from V4 of a competitor's program. This version is currently available for download absolutely FREE, I might add. There's also a slew of other vector QuickShapes available to play with all ready to export in WMF vector format.
It was brought up by Salaam and discussed a while back in Arif's Spirals... thread. CorelDRAW, Inkscape, DrawPlus, Illustrator and other applications have all been able to generate spirals for some time now. The question is, why can't we do the same, or better, in Xtreme? It would also help placate the "Where are all of the new vector vector tools we've been waiting for" users.
Just a thought (or two),
Harry
.
Just use pen tool.
.
A warm welcome to TalkGraphics to you, from me, damoworks!
OK, sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by damoworks
Actually, I used the Ellipse Tool (L) and the Shape Editor Tool (F4) to create the shaped spiral in post #22. As I said, it was very tedious.
If you're up to it, I'd like for you to post your method of using the pen tool to create a nice looking spiral similar to that produced by accessD's SPX-E Utility or the one shown in post #24 that I made using another program. I'm always willing to learn a new Xara Xtreme technique. :D
Looking forward to more posts from you,
Harry
No, spirals should be a very high priority feature as its a much used basic shape in 2d design. It should also be quite simple to implement.Quote:
Originally Posted by accessD
The lack of such a basic thing is not good imo.
I don't want to have to search for a free app and start it only to create spirals. Who knows perhaps the spiral generator wont work on the next windows?
The other problem with importing spirals is that you can no longer change their properties.
In what way do you mean "you can no longer change their properties."?
They import or drag and drop into Xara Xtreme as .eps files, and once you have the basic spiral shape that you want in the spxe program,
you can pretty much customise to your heart's content as they are vectors.
Saludos,
Bob.
I think he means that you can't change the properties of the spiral itself - like number of turns or how open it is .....
Hi Keith, that's why I said "...once you have the basic spiral shape that you want in the spxe program". ;)
Saludos,
Bob.