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Adobe commits suicide
A day ago, Adobe announced that their new CC products will all be cloud-based and sold on a monthly-fee subscription basis.
This is a HUGE opportunity for alternatives like XDP. Huge.
If anyone at Xara reads this, please encourage your management to go right after Adobe -- RIGHT NOW -- so that XDP stakes out a position as the leading alternative to Photoshop, Illustrator, and... to some extent, to Dreamweaver.
Go for it! After all, a highly aggressive PR campaign costs you next to nothing!
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Re: Adobe commits suicide
its not suicide.. it's going with the flow..
BTW: MS are currently working on a cloud based version of windows OS
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Re: Adobe commits suicide
When you consider what the full suite in all it various iterations was selling for, as I recall the range was something like $1,500 to $2,500, the option to rent or pay as you go, with full support and free product upgrades as they happen is a cost effective way to always be working with the latest versions.
If you are in the design business full time, this is very cost effective. And you only use what you need. If you own a previous version of Creative Suite the price is something like $29 a month, or $50 a month for non owners.
Time will tell, but my gut tells me Adobe is doing the right thing.
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Re: Adobe commits suicide
AS Gary rightly says they are going with the flow, pretty much everything is moving to subscription, ms office included. Yes for someone using the software as a hobby it is a lot, those people tend to upgrade once in a while, whereas people such as myself, well we tend to upgrade every year as we take work from designers and marketing/pr companies so have to have the latest versions, and to be honest £20 or so is not a bid deal at all to us as it is our business and the software makes us a lot of money.
This rings so much of a client who I spoke to about having an ecommerce site and he said the £30 per month (hosting, ecwid subscription) was too much, I reminded him that he is paying that per day for his small shop and he gets just a small number of people walking in, if he had a well marketed website he could get thousands of visitors.
For us it is a saving, for others it may not be. And to be honest just because adobe are doing this does not mean designers/marketers/universities/colleges will shift over to xara.
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Re: Adobe commits suicide
It's an interesting one.
I hate subscription services, and don't buy them. Fortunately, Xara has already weaned me off Illustrator and Photoshop, and almost from Fireworks.
My friend has a graphics effect program that he wanted to take to subscription, but when he polled his entire customer base, overwhelmingly they said no. So I'm not alone. People like to own their stuff.
I think the craziness was not to offer proper choice. I think they may be at their own New Coke/Windows 8 moment. As Gary says, time will tell.
Everybody buy Xara! It makes much more sense, anyway.
A
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Re: Adobe commits suicide
I would also never do it. Never.
It only becomes the norm if everyone fall in line and subscribes.
With this kind of subscription you own nothing and pay endlessly.
If you can't afford it otherwise, and there are no alternatives then you would have no choice I suppose.
But there are choices, and good ones too !
So does it make any sense to sign up for this kind of financial bloodletting?
-AF
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Re: Adobe commits suicide
It can be good for Xara but not exactly the way the OP described. Professionals will not exchange Adobe Creative Suite for Xara anytime soon. They are not comparable for professional use.
And this is in fact beneficial for professionals for the reasons Gary stated.
What this new Adobe deal left out is those non-professional users that were using the software as a hobby and power-users (not professionals) that can´t justify the price of a subscription and may be now searching for alternatives assuming that no one will crack the new Adobe CC versions. Otherwise everything will stay exactly the same.
Unfortunately Adobe announced it will be killing Fireworks. A real pity. It's a really useful and intuitive program.
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Re: Adobe commits suicide
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Artyboots
People like to own their stuff.
But you never own any software, even when you pay a one-off price you're still only purchasing the right to use (license) that software within the limits of the license agreement. You may 'own' the CD it came on, but not the software on the CD.
Expensive tea coasters.
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Re: Adobe commits suicide
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PeteS
But you never own any software, even when you pay a one-off price you're still only purchasing the right to use (license) that software within the limits of the license agreement. You may 'own' the CD it came on, but not the software on the CD.
Expensive tea coasters.
Semantics :)
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Re: Adobe commits suicide
I used to buy Adobe software. I started with Flash and Dreamweaver. Quickly it became cheaper to upgrade to a suite rather than individual programs. Even so, I had access to a limted number of programs. Last year my option was to buy CS6 or go with Adobe Cloud. I went with the cloud, had access to all of the Adobe software and there is little cost differrence between upgrading my old software and the subscription. Of course, if you don't upgrade regularly, it's more expensive.
Adobe started with the cloud a year ago, so they have already tested the market and now they've gone a stage further. For most people it won't make much differrence to them whether they"buy" software or rent it.
If you decide to stop subscribing though, it will be game over.
I don't see it as suicide or a big opportunity for XDP. XDP is not an equivalent to the Creative Cloud.
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Re: Adobe commits suicide
Pretentious one-track decision, I hope it will give them a good kick in the shins and create opportunity for other innovations to prosper.
I will certainly not buy on those terms.
I use their product and while they work, they're crystallized with 80's clunky interface decisions.
A rigid design built up in spirals of complexity.
Marc
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Re: Adobe commits suicide
Quote:
Originally Posted by
skech
AS Gary rightly says they are going with the flow,
:D
.............
if you look at the revenue streams it makes all the sense in the world... it means adobe can drip feed out improvements whenever they are ready, everyone gets them 'for free', there is no big gamble on spending pots of money upfront on a new version release, that may or may not take ages to recoup the outlay....
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Re: Adobe commits suicide
Im currently an art student and it is definitely worth it on a student budget to have the entire CS suite at an affordable price. Though autodesk all their products are free if youre a student.
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Re: Adobe commits suicide
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pauland
I don't see it as suicide or a big opportunity for XDP. XDP is not an equivalent to the Creative Cloud.
The Creative Puff of Smoke?
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Re: Adobe commits suicide
Who knows what kind of creative puffing goes on at Adobe HQ.
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Re: Adobe commits suicide
I think it needs to be pointed out here that Xara as much as we all love the software is lacking some fundamental features that it would need to even think about becoming a viable replacement for the Creative Suite. It can't touch Illy for things like brushes and support for a true graycale mode and for DTP features it would need things like table of contents creation, booklet and e-pub creation and true master pages just to name a few before it could even come close to InDesign.
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Re: Adobe commits suicide
Frances!!!!!!!!
Btw jon494 that is the funniest post title I have seen in ages!
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Re: Adobe commits suicide
I'm not saying that Xara isn't great, and I would dearly love to see more professionals use it, I use it daily for 99% of my work but to push it as replacement for the Creative suite to Pros used to working with CS and having these features just wouldn't work.
Just search Dear Xara and see how many threads you can find asking for brushes that stretch along a path or skeletal strokes.
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Re: Adobe commits suicide
I update work once in a while that I did beginning in 1990 on an xp computer I keep for that purpose. the CC adobe is pushing means that would be difficult unless I throw money at them for the right to use CC7 down the road. and their policy could change in the future regarding installing past versions--it has changed in the past two days (for the better), and could do so for the negative at anytime.
nah, the cloud is a rip-off anyway it is sliced or diced.
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Re: Adobe commits suicide
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mwenz
I update work once in a while that I did beginning in 1990 on an xp computer I keep for that purpose. the CC adobe is pushing means that would be difficult unless I throw money at them for the right to use CC7 down the road. and their policy could change in the future regarding installing past versions--it has changed in the past two days (for the better), and could do so for the negative at anytime.
nah, the cloud is a rip-off anyway it is sliced or diced.
Especially for companies like ours, deep in the countryside. Our Internet is very slow. Sometimes snail mail is quicker than a download. Almost. We had satellite broadband put in, but we are at the mercy of the weather.
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Re: Adobe commits suicide
Just think of the number of people like myself who think twice when spending that amount of money on software and the time it takes to put that money back into the business. Much easier to pay monthly. Other thing to remember is how many of us have a subscription out on a mag and if it is not relevant any more to your interest how long does it take to cancel it. I certainly have had a few mags like that and you don't really miss the money a bet a few businesses will be like me when it comes to Adobe products.
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Re: Adobe commits suicide
If I make a publication in ID CC7 and eventually stop using the application in say 2 years I will not be able to open it in my perpetual license CS6. Multiply that by X number of publications and my only recourse is to sign back up to the cloud in order to access my work. That is an issue to me.
Now multiply that scenario times X number of CC versions.
I do recognize that for some people that the cloud appears to make some financial sense in the short term. Having a licensing model where the terms, and costs, can change at Adobe's whim makes zero sense to me in both the short or long term.
For myself, I only use two adobe applications, AI and ID (and mostly ID). I have no need for the other applications and could care less whether I can opt to not install them.
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Re: Adobe commits suicide
I'll just affirm that my comments here are looking from adobe's point of view - I shall not myself be signing up because I don't have any need to
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Re: Adobe commits suicide
I wouldn't touch a subscription based app with a 10 foot pole. No way. NEVER.
I'm being nickeled and dimed to death in every facet of my life. Enough.
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Re: Adobe commits suicide
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TDolce
I wouldn't touch a subscription based app with a 10 foot pole. No way. NEVER.
I'm being nickeled and dimed to death in every facet of my life. Enough.
Me either, TDolce. Like you say enough is enough.
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Re: Adobe commits suicide
I've been using dreamweaver for quite a while, ended up purchasing one of the suites as it was cheaper than the individual programs. I opted for the cloud also when it came out as it was cheaper than upgrades, you didn't have to lay out a lot of money all at once, and you get access to all their programs and updates. If I remember correctly, you can also install it on another computer and use it as long as the programs aren't running at the same time, so you can install it on a laptop, for example.
For me it was both cost saving and convenient so I opted into it. My wife opted into the MS Office subscription, I believe it was $100/year and good for 5 computers. Now if Adobe would follow that....
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Re: Adobe commits suicide
There are a lot of angry creatives out there as a result of Adobe's announcement. People are looking for alternatives, this is definitely the moment for Xara to up its game.
For a discussion on Adobe's move from the perspective of the Libre graphics community see this article and the interesting comments it elicited:
http://libregraphicsworld.org/blog/e...-free-software
For CorelDraw's response (by the senior director of product management) and the comments it elicited:
http://corelblogs.wordpress.com/2013...oice/#comments
In short, Corel state that for the foreseeable future they will be offering traditionally owned software (box version) and a subscriber service, leaving the choice to the customer. Although it is implied that in the long term they may also follow Adobe's subscription only model. An announcement about their Mac plans is also imminent.
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Re: Adobe commits suicide
good links - especially the first [and I am a long term fan of WTD cartoon :D ]
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Re: Adobe commits suicide
Yes, the first link seems very balanced and fair.
Whether cloud membership is a good idea or not depends completely on your circumstance.
We can all be nervous that Adobe has us all by the proverbials and able to charge what they can get away with. My freelance work relies entirely on Adobe software.
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Re: Adobe commits suicide
IMHO, the Cloud is a euphemism for a bloatware fart in the face of the graphic arts community. A blast of noxious methane gas from wherever Adobe is hiding their headquarters these days, probably in a San Jose storm sewer. Contributing every bit as much to global warming as bovine emissions.
As others have noted, what happens to your work if Adobe changes the terms? And, what happens if Adobe goes under? Many of you can remember WordPerfect ... the alltime lawyer's favorite word processor ... can you imagine the panic if WP had gone to the methane cloud, before being overcome by its poisonous vapors, and then tanking?
There are legal implications to Cloud-based platforms. Believe me, if Adobe's business practices adversely affect your business in Europe, or Australia, or Kazakhstan... you are just so totally out of luck trying to get recourse for yourself or your customers.
In a larger sense, this is the revenge of the client-server weenies, desperate to reclaim the dominatrix position they held prior to the PC revolution. This time, the PC you paid for becomes one of their neo-terminals, with a slather of eye candy sufficient to keep most thinking its such a good deal.
Creative Cloud? Hardly. Smells so bad I hope Adobe chokes on it.
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Re: Adobe commits suicide
if adobe goes under - someone will buy it [google probably :P]
the PC does not become a terminal - you do not need to be connected to the internet at all, except to affirm your licence once a month [or once a year depending on your pricing plan]
legal implications - I don't see it
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Adobe commits suicide
Legal implications would be with Creative Cloud file storage failure or service interruption... or service cancellation due to late monthly-fee payment, or from refusal to pay increased monthly fees raised before annual subscription commitment expires. If they can discount it by 40% now to get you on the hook, they can raise it on an ad hoc basis anytime later on. Same as how the credit card interest rate bait 'n switch works.
It's all wonderfully vague. The CC website seems to imply that ALL the Adobe products will be included in your contract, any day real soon now. But they are obviously betting the store on this one, looking to turn all their customers into digital sharecroppers, hey, doo-dah day.
And, was appalled by the picture promoting Photoshop CC ... where it says 'your creative process becomes seamless, intuitive, and more connected' ... but the image looks like an ad for a proctologist. Adds new meaning to the phrase 'butt-ugly.' Eeewww.
Attachment 96137
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Re: Adobe commits suicide
I don't see it as much different as what it was before, you install it on your computer just as before. The license checks probably aren't any different either so if Adobe goes out of business and the licensing servers stop, it's going to affect all the software, not just the cloud based products. There isn't anything cloud based unless you opt to store some of your files there.
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Re: Adobe commits suicide
From what point of view are people looking at this?
As Xarians who want a piece of software,boxed and then installed?
Like already pointed out,you only buy a license to use the software.(even Xara products)
No need to install the complete suite.
Besides you can use the monthly plan to only use it for a small period instead being tied down for a year or whatever.
I for one like the monthly accounts to use maybe per project.
This way one can work cheaper and be cheaper for potential clients without the bloatware costs being incorporated in the bill.
Hans
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Re: Adobe commits suicide
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon404
Legal implications would be with Creative Cloud file storage failure or service interruption...
read the terms and conditions - if you don't like them don't use the service
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or service cancellation due to late monthly-fee payment
see above, not adobe's responsibility that
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or from refusal to pay increased monthly fees raised before annual subscription commitment expires
you really haven't read them have you :)
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Re: Adobe commits suicide
Quote:
Originally Posted by
handrawn
read the terms and conditions - if you don't like them don't use the service
see above, not adobe's responsibility that
you really haven't read them have you :)
From their terms of service:
Quote:
6.5 Adobe may modify or discontinue, temporarily or permanently, the Services or Materials, or any portion thereof, with or without notice. You agree that Adobe shall not be liable to you or anyone else if we do so.
Really, Adobe's terms of service regarding the entire CC product--applications and services--is so vague as to be largely worthless.
But we'll see what happens. Stock gains little, looses the gains. But nothing indicating broad acceptance like when there was both the cloud and perpetual licenses a bit over a year ago. If both investing and the ratio of sign-ups to attrition remain flat, Adobe will "reinvent" themselves again. All in the best interest of their customers, of course.
Mike
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Re: Adobe commits suicide
They are just doing what all the rest is doing going in the cloud ... wonder whether or not these cloud companies are ever going to get back to earth?
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Re: Adobe commits suicide
@handrawn -- yes, I read their fine print, as Mike noted above. But to be fair, EVERY software license comes with so many weasel words, and an assumed promissory note on your unborn children.
Let's get real here. You may want, but you don't need, Photoshop or Illustrator to make graphics for webpages, ads, brochures, etc. Can't comment on Indesign; haven't kept up on the DTP side. Or on website design... except that I always thought Dreamweaver was a kludge.
But images? Come on. The customer must have a bright clear compelling product image. That's ALL. And you can make that image just as easily with free getpaint.net or free GIMP. You can make the image even MORE easily with XDP or P&GD. And you don't have to rent any of these products. They are YOURS, at very low cost.
So when I say Adobe's committing suicide, it's because I believe there's a very poor business case for cloud-based rental graphics software. These are NOT Bloomberg-terminal-unique, absolutely critical, got-to-have programs. But as Mike says, if it all goes nowhere, they'll probably scramble to re-invent themselves.
In the meantime, it's a HUGE opportunity for Xara. Huge. believe me, SOMEBODY is going to take advantage of this and take away a good chunk of Adobe's market share. And that somebody might as well be Xara. Why not?
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Re: Adobe commits suicide
The only thing cloud based about it is that you download and install the program and don't receive a cd. Otherwise, the software isn't going to be any different from installing from a cd.
You think of it as "rental", I think of it as paying for the software over a period of time instead of all at once. The first year, I paid $30/month, now I'm paying $50, so $600 per year. Still beats the price of upgrading for me and to boot, I have all their software I can try out.
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Re: Adobe commits suicide
@ckh -- bring me up to date. If, God forbid, Adobe were to cut you off, or to go broke and close down, are there other programs out there that can, as of today, read in Photoshop CC and Illustrator CC native files... without rework? Without dropping out the latest-version special effects? For example, can XDP import the latest CC .PSD and .AI files (if that's what they're still calling them) without errors?
If that's so, if you have competitive alternatives to switch to in a pinch, then you're safe enough with Cloud software. As for Cloud storage, as long as you also back up locally, why not?
But if you, or anyone else, could bring me up to date about native-file compatibility... appreciated!