extend a shape with pen, adding with or without original shape?

extend a shape with pen, adding with or without original shape?

sometime if i extend an existing original shape with the pen i get two different results,
one is with, the other is without the original shape.

how can i select which outline from existing shape to use?

pls see picture to understand

Attachment 125712

Hi RS, I wouldn't expect you to get the shape on the right hand side in you image. It's not something I ever use but in my understanding if the additional line start/end is within less than the original shapes half length it will add the shapes. However if the start/end is more than half the originals shapes length it will subtract the original shape. Problem being with an erratic shape it's not always easy to know the half length so do smaller additions at a time.

Hi,

it is not because of the larger shape.
i tried it before and now i tested it again

... i just did the pink shape out of the green one.

i also tested the direction, but could not find any rule. unfortunately.


Attachment 125714


regards
reinhard


an another example.
pink outline adds
green subtracts.

Attachment 125715

When I tried with the pen tool I get two separate shapes. How do you extend the shape and get it to attach to the orginall shape?

Ray

first it has to be converted to editable shapes. (no cross in the middle)
the with the pen tool start at the outline of the shape [~] will be there,
than paint around and end at the same original shape outline, again [~] will be there.

Hi again Reinhard. Possibly more of an insight, perhaps it relates to node distribution?

I recall a thread on this issue several years back with guidance from the Xara Devs but I cant find it at present.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rsrsrs

extend a shape with pen, adding with or without original shape?

sometime if i extend an existing original shape with the pen i get two different results,
one is with, the other is without the original shape.

how can i select which outline from existing shape to use?

pls see picture to understand

Attachment 125712

---

If I do, as it is in your image, then I always get the larger shape.
I do not get the smaller shape.

If I select the same starting point as yours, I have to take the line around over a certain point, before I get the subtractive (cutout) shape.
Below as certain point, I always get the Additive.

In the attached image, if I always start at X, all the way to points Y1 to Y4, AND GO IN A CLOCKWISE DIRECTION, I get additive.
It's not until I get to Y5, that I get subtractive.

If I go IN AN ANTI-CLOCKWISE DIRECTION, from X to Y5, I get additive,
From X to Y4 and further, I get subtractive.

Interesting, eh?!

not done any of this for a long time - it is also possible to create a single shape that has both an internal and external outline as shown here:

Attachment 125737

Attachment 125736


by combining the subtractive shape with a paste in place copy of the original

I don't recall any hard and fast rule for this behaviour....

Seems to be one of the last mysteries of Xara.
;-)
solution would be xara does highlight the path that stays,
and with [shift] switching it.

cheers

That's really interesting Rik,

I think may also be due to the percentage of the original object, for example if it's more than 40% of the size you get the other result.

Over time the warp tool has become a favorite of mine to tweak shapes.

Marc

As it is so problematic, use the Freehand and Brush tool and start close to but not touching the line and draw a closed (filled) shape.
Place behind the original and select both and Add Shapes.

To remove from the original, all od the above but Subtract Shapes as the last step.

The explanation I have in my head for the ~-~ use is it is all down to the winding direction of the added path.
I find it difficult to explain though, hence the alternative.

Acorn

id agree about winding rule and its opaque nature - there is really no documentation about this from xara

Here's a LINK to a thread that probably relates to this issue answered by PhilM but I can't say it will clarify much for me or most users.

ShapePainterTool

thanks for the link egg

yes well, manipulating the winding can be a very useful design tool, eg when doing complicated freehand shapes with lines that overlap, and I think it is a shame in a way xara do not cater for it - philM's comment about 99.99% of the time is another example of where the target user for xara is though ;)

hakoo - indeed

Hi all,

i just fight with this "feature".
any news here?

reinhard

Having looked at this again I'm with egg on this one

this is the way I see it:

Attachment 130320

the xar file contains the shape if you want to test it yourself

Attachment 130321

whether this is to do with winding rule or not, there has to be a rule because xara cannot guess and both adding or subtracting have their uses