Xtreme Pro 4 way too big!

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Originally Posted by gwpriester

But to Jen's point, having the option when you install to do a Typical or Custom install is a good thing. And that was the real point of the thread.

Sorry to interrupt. Carry on with the thrash. :D

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Well, if Garry says 'carry on....'

I'm going to try and avoid being tempted into repeating this after this last attempt, but:

1. No feature exists except at the expense of another feature. Nothing which increases complexity to save people USD0.01 of diskspace can be simply called 'good' without deeper consideration.

2. Out of the total costs of publishing mass-market shrink-wrap software, up-front coding is but a small proportion. There is such a long way from 'Hello, World' to a box on a shelf (or, more significantly, 100000 successfully deployed installations). Nobody who's ever shipped a lot of software is as glib as many of the posters in this thread are about installation.

3. Aftermarket support costs are potentially devestating to small publishers of low-price mass-market software. Call or email Xara to discuss any problem with your app or installation, and they'll now have lost money on you as a customer.

Just look at some the struggle people around here have to open a command prompt and run expandxar on a file - then just try and imagine a telephone call where you try and discuss with that person (and one of you is not speaking your first language) why the '3D Extrude' icon doesn't appear on their toolbar since they re-installed Xara software. Don't forget that they won't be using nice clear terminology like button, toolbar, window, cursor, either. They'll also deny having even done the reinstallation or changing any options if they did. They won't tell you that since they 'caught a virus', the neighbours' son who "knows a lot about computers" came around and fixed their computer before they called you.

And they'll have a sense of entitlement which may well be quite some way from what you think 30 dollars buys.

Support is expensive, disk is cheap. Intelligent software vendors trade one against the other.

I don't want to intrude too much in this thread, but suppose Xara made it possible to deselect the option to install the Magix photo editor... I don't think Magix would be very happy about this. And it wouldn't make the Xara-Magix relations much better I think. AFAIK the Magix photo editor is the only "tangible" presence of Magix in the Xtreme software. Giving users the option to remove this presence is almost like indicating you don't want to work with Magix :\
Making the Magix photo editor part of the "core" install, but making XPE optional obviously isn't going to work for Xara.

I'm not standing in their shoes, but I think these considerations also play a part in this matter.

Xara don't 'work with' Magix, they're completely owned by them.

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Originally Posted by willdean

Xara don't 'work with' Magix, they're completely owned by them.

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Yes. That would make it even worse :D

It appears to me that the real bug in the Xara Xtreme Pro 4.0 is Magix and not a coders fault :D

everyone who wants xara to provide them with whatever it is they want, should remember, as was touched on earlier, that xara is a commercial enterprise and its first consideration is to survive. No survival, no anything new.

Personally I think that is reason to be grateful for magix ;)

Even Magix should be able to honor user requests, particularly with the 'pro' version. I wouldn't mind if the would even pack their lousy sound and video editors into the Xara Xtreme (basic) version, plus 20.000 web templates, 5 gigbabytes photographs shot with mobile phones and all the nine yards.

However, the 'pro' version should be a real pro version without gimmicks the pros don't need.

And if they want their name in the software, they can change the name of the basic version into 'Magix Xtreme' to lure the masses and market it through WalMart, Target, etc.

History tells us that all packages that wanted to 'cover it all' like Canvas or Micrografx finally dried up and ended in the gutter. What counts are the core competences of a company in the professional area, not gimmicks or kinky 'me-too' features other vendors can do a lot better.

just my 2 cents

Magix cannot possibly honour every users request. You only have to look at the discussions that have been started as a result of this upgrade being replaced. At the last look at the recent poll of this forums users, more than 50% think that this upgrade is more than they could have wished for.

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Originally Posted by jens g.r. benthien

However, the 'pro' version should be a real pro version without gimmicks the pros don't need.

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I don't think that it's fair to think that because you don't want them, no professionals want them. I get the impression that quite a number of the professionals on this forum are quite happy with the gimmicks that make their jobs easier and quicker. If you don't want them, don't use them. If you don't like the clipart just delete it. If you don't like the upgrade, don't buy it. You vote with your wallet!

Keith,

does Adobe integrate Fireworks into the core of Illustrator?
Does Adobe integrate Photoshop Elements plus Photoshop CS3 plus Fireworks into the core of Illustrator?

No. Definitely not.

Guess why.

Look at Cinema 4D - it's a modular software which allows numerous plug-ins - even 3rd party stuff - **if** you need them.

I am a pro and I still draw lines with a piece of technology that was invented when Queen Victoria was learning to walk. [as in my avatar]

It takes no disk space and requires no electricity [if you only use it in daylight]

Doesn't come much leaner and fitter than that :D

I say this just in case the term 'pro' is automatically thought to be 'cutting edge'

I use what works. I don't care if it has other things too, as long as they do not get in the way - life's too short.