Suzzie, you have said that you have a Webstyle and even used it before. Is this correct?
Now, have you tried to use Webstyle menu with your WD project? I have given you some links about it in another thread.
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Suzzie, you have said that you have a Webstyle and even used it before. Is this correct?
Now, have you tried to use Webstyle menu with your WD project? I have given you some links about it in another thread.
Hi John,
Yes I did try out WebStyle initially... but without much success at the time unfortunately. That was one of my earliest hopes for XWD...that it could import the absolutely beautifully managed WebStyle type menus. When that didnt pan out well...then i migrated to the buttons here in the XWD templates... because some of them were very pretty looking and somewhat functional.
The challenge came in when I wanted to change the wording on the template buttons, or to move the buttons around slightly, or to maybe add another button or two by copying them. Then it REALLY got unpredictable.
Adding in that second layer of navigation... that we are working on here in this thread... by the use of popups and rollovers and layers... has been the real challenge...because few of us have discovered the rules and the methodologies for creating, controlling and managing them.
I am really liking Cursors mind set and the disclipline he is adding to the process. It does seem like Xara does have the capabilities to add in that very widely used second line of navigation buttons that we all see everywhere on the net. Problem is...we are in a discovery process of what the rules are...and are creating wild workarounds...to get to the functionality. Through much frustration...we are getting close to being able to get this very common navigation capability here in XWD. Right now its an evolving manual process at this stage.
What Im really praying for...is someone at the factory to say...I see...it is a problem...most every other web site on the net does have cascading menus...We have had beautiful and stable cascading menus for 6 years now using our other Xara products...how can we do that for our Web Designer Product too!!!
John...that would be a real home run for XWD... and its user base... and for making XWD the killer product it could be in the marketplace. We either have to go through developing these wild manual workarounds...or maybe someone at the factory can come up with something in the next release...I for one can barely wait!!
Can we take your previous expertise in making Killer Gorgeous Functional Navigation Menus...and extend that into being a strength of XWD as well?
Hire a temporary outside consultant at the factory for 3 weeks... to help you come up with the answer for you...if the rest of the staff is prioritized elsewhere.
Thanks,
Suzzie1234
Well, I think you hadn't noticed this link: http://www.talkgraphics.com/showpost...1&postcount=23
;)
Hi John,
Ive been physically away from XWD in the last few weeks... to take some R+R from dealing with manual workarounds...and it may be that my notification was not turned on in that thread. Ill see if I can subscribe to that thread now and follow it. Thank you. (EDIT: I unfortunately did not see or join this parallel thread for some reason...thank you for the link John!)
It seemed like there was one solution posted about WebStyle in the past that I saw... but it was also a convoluted solution...and only hinted at limited success with a lot of jumbled manual workaround.
Id love to explore the capabilities of a Xara Like Menu Maker being called out by WXD. WebStyle/MenuMaker according to some posts is almost dead and barely supported anymore unfortunately.
Maybe financially for the XARA...there is a way to breathe new dollars into the company coffers... by resurrecting the old money maker. You spent years developing a Beautiful, Elegant, Highly Functional Menu Making System...and its time Died! Maybe XWD is the place to bring it back to life "ELEGANTLY" (not with crude, cluge, cryptic integration) and have that expertise of Xara begin Making Money for you AGAIN. Some of the buttons in there were beautiful, functional and highly flexible. Is there any re-usable code in there that can generate NEW DOLLARS for XARA. We are certainly suffering here on this thread... trying to do... what you once did The Best in the World!
Id say...stop treating this navigation menu as a problem and as a resource drain for Xara...and see it as a MONEY MAKING...Product Enhancing... Opportunity for the company! This could create extra SUPERIORITY in the marketplace for the XWD product...and make money too!
Whats not to like... for an internal Xara resource manager... and a chief financial officer? Re-shift those internal priorities...and bring in a short term, temporary, project coder to make XWD EVEN MORE AWESOME!!!
Ill be away for a few days teaching a seminar on Photoshop...Cant wait to see what we come up with!
All...thanks for all your helps along the way...and especially Thanks for all your patience.
Suzzie
I'm looking over your last submitted .web file, Suzzie. I thought I'd make a few observations:
- I have the best luck when I respect absolute pixel alignment. For example, when I create a button, I make sure that its dimensions are in integer terms (no decimal values). Let me give you an example.
- Your buttons are 109.9 x 47.6. Instead, I might make them 110 x 48.
- The gap that you have between buttons is 3.4. I might make them 4.
- The underlying blue box that houses the buttons and your graphic is 919.3 x 171.4. I might make it 920 x 172. Or, better yet, calculate a width based on its contained elements: width = (8x110) + (7x4) + (2x5). That translates into the sum of (8 buttons that are 110pix each) + (7 spaces that are 4pix each) + (start & end spaces that are 5pix each). The blue box might then be 918pix. If that's too narrow, then make appropriate adjustments ... but in whole pixels.
__Of course, you don't have to calculate a width, simply nudge your elements around using the cursor keys. By default, each tap of a cursor key moves a selected item (or group of items) exactly one pixel. Using the Ctrl key in combination with cursor keys nudges five pixels at a time. Using the Shift key in combination with cursor keys nudges ten pixels at a time.
__You can also precisely position by using the 'Grid' and 'Snap to objects'.- It looks like after creating your eight buttons, you marquee selected the elements and dragged them into position over the blue box. Apparently, you didn't have the MouseOver layer set as selectable when you lassoed the elements. You can fix that by 1) making the MouseOver layer both selectable and visible, 2) select your darker blue buttons, then (with 'Snap to objects' turned on) drag the set of button elements directly over the set of MouseOff button elements.
__The same corrective action can be done with your two btn2 and two btn3 groups (pop-up and rollover layers).- Your button 5 is wrongly set to 'Show popup layer' mouseOver_btn5. Instead, it should trigger btn5 on Mouse-over. Your button six is properly set, for reference.)
- The text menu and its underlying box on both btn5 and btn5 popup layers are grouped together. This makes it so that the text will be exported as graphics, and will not respect the link colors that you set at Web 'Properties > Website > Website link colors'. This can be fixed by ungrouping the text from the underlying box.
- Your menu text on layer btn5 has been scaled from 13pix to 12.73pix. For true WYSIWYG results, stick with integer values for text sizes.
- The text on your main buttons should be center-justified text (not left-justified text ... centered on the button rectangle). This makes text positioning much less of a headache.
I've created a short video tutorial that illustrates how to create a single button with drop-down menu. It pretty much goes hand in hand with the written tutorial that I did earlier in this thread. I hope that it adds some clarity as to how popup and rollover/mouseover layers can be used for creating web navigation systems.
Take a peek. :)
Cursor,
Youre Brilliant! My Gosh. I think you have nailed the process and its elements!
Continue doing this!!! Are there other things we should know? Teach me more!!
You were great! Clear and methodical... and you explained the importance of the key steps. The parts about centering the text first and soft grouping and changing the text After you had all the positions in place was so helpful. Thats is where I was getting tripped up...I left it on the default left justified and my text wouldnt align consistently across the layers after I moved the first layer.
Thank You Cursor, Slavelle and Coxover...You guys deserve a trophy!!! I really do appreciate all your helps!!
Suzzie1234
I'm glad that it's now making some sense to you Suzzie. Did you happen to see the repaired version of your navigation block that I posted above?
In a future video tutorial (soon) I'll expand the single drop-down to several buttons wide, explain when additional layers (pop-up & roll-over) are required, and delineate just how to move the various elements to those layers.
Hi Cursor,
This is an awesome tutorial, exactly what us beginners at XWD need. I was having trouble following Egg's video tutorial, probably because he didn't start from the beginning like you did. Any chance of you doing a tutorial starting from the beginning on creating framed picture galleries to show how they link up, group up....etc.
Thanks for you time and the great tutorial on buttons,
Ed......:-)
Excellent video Cursor :)
Drwyd
Agreed, very well done video Curtis.
Excellent video Curtis. I even learned something new about snap to objects. I didn't know about grabbing them in the corner. :D
Eric
Great tutorial vid Curtis! You should do a whole range of them as sell a dvd's worth! :)
How about I do a whole range of them ... then just post 'em here for free? :D
Hi Cursor,
You are absolutely amazing. With yours and others help here, I've been able to work my image files for my website. I'll post it when it's complete. It's not fancy but it works and will serve it's purpose.
I like your level of service to the XWD community....awesome....
Thanks very much,
Ed......:-)
Hey ... just trying to share. Please do the same. ;)
Here is the next attempt to shed some light on navbar development in Web Designer (and Xtreme 5, since they share fuction). This video extends the 1x dropdown to a 2x dropdown. I hope that it adds some clarity. In the next installment we'll jump straght to a 4+ version of a drop-down menu. We'll then follow up with a third-level fly-out.
[always] have fun! :)
glad I read this thread. I seen it right off. but don't like negitive ...
but gave it a look toady
and will be researching the info. I need to learn nav bars and layers
more.
thanks
In private conversation with another TalkGraphics member, it became clear that a written proceedural outline might come in handy for predictably copying a functional drop-down option and attaching it to a different button.Oh yeah ... don't forget to make sure that the target parent button is set to stimulate the new pop-up layer on mouse-over (Web Properties > Mouse-over (tab) > Show popup layer [ layer name ]).
- With the 'Snap to objects' toggle set 'on', position your cursor in an upper corner of a functional drop-down, soft-grouped option.
- Right-mouse click and drag a copy of the functional drop-down to the underside of the new target location. Release the mouse button when the soft-group snaps into position. The 'Status line' will read, "2 groups (soft group) on 2 layers".
- Do an Arrange > Remove soft group. The 'Status line' will read, "2 groups on 2 layers".
- Since each of the 2 groups need to be positioned on their new target layers, you should:
- Deselect the button by clicking on some remote area of the design space, or by simply hitting the 'Esc'[ape] key.
- Click on the the roll-over element of the new drop-down button. The 'Status line' will read, "1 group on layer mouseover...".
- Select the name of the target mouse-over layer in the Layer Gallery, then click the Move button.
- Turn off visibility and selectability of the target mouseover... layer.
- Click on the the pop-up element of the new drop-down button. The 'Status line' will read, "1 group on layer layer-name".
- Select the name of the target mouse-over layer in the Layer Gallery, then click the Move button.
- With both target layers set for selectability and visibility, marquee-select the two groups that define the new button. The 'Status line' will read, "2 groups on 2 layers".
- Do an Arrange > Apply soft group. The 'Status line' will read, "2 groups (soft group) on 2 layers".
- Preview results.
Pssst ... I've attached a brief video that should clarify ... =)
Hey Cursor,
HAAAALLLLPPPP!!!
I'm not blaming anyone but my XWD was working fine until I downloaded your drop down web file, yesterday.
Now I get double menus and when I try to delete them and continue, I get a "serious internal error 0x0063787E"
I now get the same response with any of my web files I pull up.
It won't let me go any farther...
Any ideas?
Jim 'Gramps' Curtis
Hillsboro OH
Just a tip to suzzie and perhaps a few others who do not want to struggle with creating nav bars from scratch.
Use Xara Menu Maker. OK, it is $30 in addition, but, oh, so simple. A nav bar with 10 main menus, lots of submenus, and sub-submenus, is created in minutes. Control is total.
Wish XWD was anything like it...
Hello -
I own Xara Webstyle4 - is menu maker a newer version ?
If so, is the upgrade worth it ?
Thanks,
JC
Menu Maker is basically the Navbar feature from Webstyle.
If you have Webstyle you already have all the funtionality of Menu Maker.
Both applications were last released in 2004.
Although the templates for Webstyle and Menu Maker are not compatible you will find the Navbar designs are the same for both applications.
When someone recommends using Menu Maker shouldn't you caution them that it probably won't work in Chrome?
gramps
Hi Gramps,
Perhaps a suggestion that it may not work would be more appropriate I think. There is a recommended fix on the Xara Support site.
http://support.xara.com/index.php?_m...&nav=0,454,460
I've heard that some people have still experienced problems after using the corrective action. Personally it has worked every time for me, but I don't use Dreamweaver or Frontpage so that may explain why I don't experience the problem.
Here's a new video installment on navbar creation. In this session a third (first-level) button is added -- one that doesn't have a submenu. Additionally, I offer an observation about Web Properties > Mouse-over (tab) > Show popup layer.
Thanks once more Curtis. Very clear.
You can create some pretty cool graphic buttons that can always be used in website designer!Quote:
When someone recommends using Menu Maker shouldn't you caution them that it probably won't work in Chrome?
I've prepared another video installment that expands navigation to 4 buttons (3 of which have drop-down options). In the next session, I'll add a fly-out (3rd tier option).
OK ... here is the last in the series. In this session I expand the 4-button navbar by adding a 3-button fly-out at button 2c.
Thanks for the tutorial, but I'm a newcomer to this. It all looks so simple on your sample, but I tried to mimic your sample but my menu bar does not work.
Please have alook and explain what have I done wrong. It seems that the layers are changing in a specific sequense.
I just opened your attached .web file and found it to be toally empty ... no content whatsoever.
Same here:
index.web was created with: MAGIX Xtreme Web Designer 5.0.1.10003 CD
ExpandXar finds nothing there either
I tried to follow, but lost you at Part 2.
Making adjustments to Button1...
My buttons are some disappearing and others not.
Could you please have alook at the work I have done so far, and comment on what I am missing.
Thanks
I am uploading my pages.
A couple of observations:
- You have WAY too many layers. One unique set of layers are required for each dropdown menu (not for each label/button within a dropdown menu). Note that all of the items that fall under [Company] are all positioned on layers 'Com' and 'mouseOver_Com'.
- I didn't delete one of your layers (mouseOver_SRV6) because it has elements on it.
- At some buttons, you have three or four graphic elements. You only need two -- one on the popup layer, and one on the mouseOver_popup layer.
- I've provided you enough of an example that you should be able to finish the job, and hopefully be much more confident in your future attempts. =)
- In the example, I've arranged for [Company] and [Industries] to behave slightly differently. See if you can figure out what I've done. Which way you decide to go is totally a matter of personal preference.
Cursor
Thanks for the help, it seems that you are a pro with this software, and I am not cut out for it. Looked at the example you created for me, but when I do the same my dropdown buttons does not work.
Are there no movie or screenshot step by step instructions, as I just don't get it working.
If not I am destined to return the software and look for something else, as I don't grasp the consept of the layers and grouping/soft grouping. I change it on one layer then it update another, also the "1 group on layer" vs "2 groups on layer" does not make sense.
Thanks for the help.
ps. see my attempt again. You'l see I am not cut out for it.
It can be frustrating, can't it?! :-O
Take a peek at this video, which directly addresses your problem. =)
Hi Cursor
I must thank you for all your help. You've gave me hope and showed me where I have been struggling for weeks with the dropdown/popup button menus.
The effort you made to create the screen demo, helped me understand the workings of the layers. I am truly gratefull and know that this thread will help a lot of people that is also struggling with creating a dropdown/popup menu bar.
Once again thank you.
Regards
Pux
I'm glad that you were able to get something positive from the video. If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to post them.