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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
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Originally Posted by
DiscoMike
Anyone out there with me on this ?
Absolutely. First impressions count.
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What is the Repel feature that is offered in Xtreme 4 ?
If you position an object over some text and set the object to 'repel' the text in the box will flow around the object (though it doesn't always seem to work for me).
Paul
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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
Thanks much for your input Paul. I did see an example of that in this thread, orange button with surrounding text, but I wanted to make sure.
Sounds like a great feature to have which would be useful for web and illustration graphics.
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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
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Originally Posted by
DiscoMike
...The best interface I seen in a graphics program is Microsofts Expression Design...
We have to be a little careful when we talk about what we mean by good UIs. There are two separate issues here that are being compounded and confused: a) the UI's functionality, and b) its superficial appearance.
Regarding a): Xara has the most intelligently designed UI out there for functionality. It's minimalist, compact, efficient, and totally unintimidating (relative to the competition); no dialogue clutter, gratuitous menus or floating palettes.
Regarding b): Yes, Expression's interface is much more aesthetically appealing on the gloss front. But what's more important, style or substance? Obviously the latter; Expression's UI is relatively poor on the productivity side.
This is not to say it would be unwelcome for Xara's interface to be sexed-up, which is what I think people are really asking for, specifically, regarding the UI.
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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
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Originally Posted by
Xhris
This is not to say it would be unwelcome for Xara's interface to be sexed-up, which is what I think people are really asking for, specifically, regarding the UI.
Exactly.
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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
Completely agree guys. Now if we could only find a really good icon designer who can create really classy minimalist icons designs. It's very, very difficult.
We could quite easily, and seriously considered this for 4.0, make the icons monochrome, which makes them seem a little less toy. In fact we did this for XPE, and I think these looks better, but there are other opinions about this internally.
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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
Charles, I am sure that there are a lot of people here that visit these forums that could do the icon design for you. Just announce they get their icons used in the program and maybe a free copy of the software. Maybe a contest. Im sure that you would get hundreds of designs to look at.
eye candy is nice but personally I do not care. As long as the software works then the same old UI works for me.
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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
For my vote. Xtreme UI suits me perfectly.
I don't require a new skin to increase my workflow or the fun in using Xtreme.
I'm certainly not reminded of Windows98 when I use it.
(Though I have to say I love Adobe Lightroom, though horse for courses right? ;))
For ugly UI's, spend over $AUD2,000 on CADLinks Signlab, considered by many pro sign shops as the industry standard, feast your eyes on retro'UI, button clutter, and non smoothed vectors... :eek:
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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
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Originally Posted by
Charles Moir
Completely agree guys. Now if we could only find a really good icon designer who can create really classy minimalist icons designs. It's very, very difficult.
We could quite easily, and seriously considered this for 4.0, make the icons monochrome, which makes them seem a little less toy. In fact we did this for XPE, and I think these looks better, but there are other opinions about this internally.
What about asking Centaurus--the guy who does www.iconka.com and also uses Xara? The website states GUI develppment as it's target audience. He's even got a new video available.
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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Charles Moir
Completely agree guys. Now if we could only find a really good icon designer who can create really classy minimalist icons designs. It's very, very difficult.
Check out Centaurus' work (www.iconka.com)
http://www.talkgraphics.com/showthread.php?t=31601
haha - Xhris beat me too it !.. ;)
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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
Thanks for everyones input. Although I am not endorsing anyone to jump ship from Xtreme to Expression over UI, my feeling is that Expressions UI is extremely easy to grasp.
I did not have enough time to evaluate which is better on both the graphics side and most useful UI - Xtreme or Expression Design. The biggest impression I had about both programs in the limited time frame available was the UI - Expression Design wins me over. On the graphics implementation, I found Expression to offer more special effects right out of the box, but both seem comparable when it comes to creating graphic shapes.
I have a very hard time creating an Aqua Sphere, whether using Illustrator or Photoshop, due to its intimidating user interface. To create a circle requires reading several chapters in the program manual. You can create shapes and add effects right out of the box with Expression Design or Xtreme - thanks to its intuitive design layout.
Anyone is free to comment their oppinion on which is the better program - Expression or Xtreme. Do I dare include Illustrator or Photoshop in this conversation ?
Xtremes UI is also intitive, which is a big reason why Xtreme is very easy to use and why I purchased it, but I would like to see it polished and more up to date, which I see it's on the wishlist of the Xara community. I do believe if the UI is updated, not by cluttering it with more icons, but by updating the icons and adding an eye-candy 21st Century look, Adobe Illustrator Users would be giving Xara Xtreme a very hard look when they plan for their next software upgrade.
Another wishlist I have for Xtreme is that it incorporate have more 3-D capabilities, like incorporating Xara-3D version 6 into the program. Is there any justification on why Xtreme (or any vector program) should not incorporate 3-D capabilities in their program ? I cannot think of any. It would seem that it would make any vector drawing program, such as Xtreme, a more complete package.
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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
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Originally Posted by
DiscoMike
Another wishlist I have for Xtreme is that it incorporate have more 3-D capabilities, like incorporating Xara-3D version 6 into the program. Is there any justification on why Xtreme (or any vector program) should not incorporate 3-D capabilities in their program ? I cannot think of any. It would seem that it would make any vector drawing program, such as Xtreme, a more complete package.
Um...are you aware what thread you're in? :) Xara Xtreme 4 has this 3D functionality now. 3D X3D-style was a long time coming. I suspect it wasn't a trivial task to just port X3D into Xtreme; the rendering environment is quite different and more complex in Xtreme than X3D.
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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Charles Moir
Completely agree guys. Now if we could only find a really good icon designer who can create really classy minimalist icons designs. It's very, very difficult.
We could quite easily, and seriously considered this for 4.0, make the icons monochrome, which makes them seem a little less toy. In fact we did this for XPE, and I think these looks better, but there are other opinions about this internally.
No, please, no monichrome !!! I love the 20th century invention of tru-colour !!! As for icons, why not try soliciting www.luckyicon.com ? They created all of their IMPRESSIVE icons and graphics for numerous manufacturers and also offer icon sets which were all created using your Xara Xtreme product; Another big reason why I purchased Xtreme.
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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
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Originally Posted by
Xhris
Um...are you aware what thread you're in? :) Xara Xtreme 4 has this 3D functionality now. 3D X3D-style was a long time coming. I suspect it wasn't a trivial task to just port X3D into Xtreme; the rendering environment is quite different and more complex in Xtreme than X3D.
Nope, I dont have a clue where I am at. :p I am illiterate, therefore I cannot read, however, I have remarkable writing abilities. :rolleyes:
I did not have a chance to check out Xtreme 4, I saw the release yesterday here on this post and went straight for purchasing the upgrade and downloaded it. I have not yet had a chance to play with the new toy.
If one purchases Xtreme 4, is there any reason to purchase the stand-alone program of Xara 3D version 6 ? I can't wait to see what version 7 will have to offer !!!
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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DiscoMike
:eek:
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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
Xara3D lets you create animations out of your 3D objects in a way that's far easier than it would be if you used v4 to do it. In particular instead of just saying "swing back and forth" you'd have to create all of those frames manually.
If that's something that's interesting, then you may way to pick up Xara3D as well.
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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
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Originally Posted by
DiscoMike
No, please, no monichrome !!! I love the 20th century invention of tru-colour !!!
:D you've been reading too much Calvin and Hobbs ! :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DiscoMike
Nope, I dont have a clue where I am at. :p I am illiterate, therefore I cannot read, however, I have remarkable writing abilities. :rolleyes:
ah irony its sometimes a lost cause...
Your enthusiasm does you credit Mike I wish you well - the best and only true way to determine which program is best, is to use them ;)
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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
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Originally Posted by
handrawn
:D you've been reading too much Calvin and Hobbs ! :D
ah irony its sometimes a lost cause...
Your enthusiasm does you credit Mike I wish you well - the best and only true way to determine which program is best, is to use them ;)
Yet my GF says I am lazy, waisting time playing with my Light Sabre.
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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
If an appearance revamp of Xtreme is seriously being considered by Charles & his team then I'd suggest the following approach. Hire Gary Priester as a consulting Art Director tasked with a project of professionally putting together a short list of potential icon designers. I'm sure Gary is the right guy for the job. Gary likely knows Xara products better than almost anyone, is committed to it, yet also understands the competitor's products, Xara's users, and has a keen eye for design honed by many successful years as a designer. He is also a person who respects Charles' vision and commitment to the product. I have no doubt Gary could shortlist professional icon designers capable of satisfying Charles and almost all users.
Charles please draft Gary to the task. He's da-bomb! Anyways, as an approach - a meaningful & potentially productive first step - I think it is worth considering.
Regards, Ross
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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ross Macintosh
If an appearance revamp of Xtreme is seriously being considered by Charles & his team then I'd suggest the following approach. Hire Gary Priester as a consulting Art Director tasked with a project of professionally putting together a short list of potential icon designers. I'm sure Gary is the right guy for the job. Gary likely knows Xara products better than almost anyone, is committed to it, yet also understands the competitor's products, Xara's users, and has a keen eye for design honed by many successful years as a designer. He is also a person who respects Charles' vision and commitment to the product. I have no doubt Gary could shortlist professional icon designers capable of satisfying Charles and almost all users.
Charles please draft Gary to the task. He's da-bomb! Anyways, as an approach - a meaningful & potentially productive first step - I think it is worth considering.
Excellent idea, Ross. I second this.
.joroho.
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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
As I understand it...version 4 that is now available is beta..I have downloaded version 4 and will be upgrading. Is the actual version that is coming outsoon a download or a Cd. I have Zara on 2 computers. Is that legal....and if it is....and the upgrade is a download...can I download the new version on 2 computers? I am computerdumb so please be patient. Tks
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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
Out of curiosity, when the CD's ship, will there be a printed version of the release notes showing the new functionality in the same style as the current manual? For those of us that upgraded, at any rate.
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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
Hi quickdraw
defined in the licence - here is a relevant extract from xara xtreme pro 4:
You are permitted to:
1. load or download the Software and use it only on a single client computer which is under your personal control;
2. transfer the Software from one computer to another provided it is used on only one computer at any one time;
.......
You are not permitted:
(a) to use the Software on any computer or system which permits electronic access to it by more than one user;
:)
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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
It's not really a good licence for a lot of people. I used to have a desktop machine and a laptop (my laptop has mostly taken over) and I'm used to installing the same software on both. I understand that the licence is stopping two people using the software at the same time, but it doesn't take into account the changing lifestyles of a lot of people.
My Adobe software can be installed on my desktop and laptop..
Paul
(Edit - reading the licence again, 1 and 2 almost seem contradictory )
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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
Agreed Paul
By the way, my version 3.2 has the very same EULA
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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
to the skin ui discussion:
just build the app as it is and add a ressource folder with all bitmaps used in the app. if someone alters a bitmap in the folder it will be used by xara.
simple thing,
FLy
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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
But traditional Windows apps don't load all the graphics from on-disk bitmaps, they load from application resources which are compiled at the same time as the rest of the application code. And traditional Windows resource bitmaps are often composites of lots of little bitmaps.
Clearly it's by no means impossible to do what you're saying, but it's by no means a 'simple thing'.
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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
It's also a potential support nightmare as button X doesn't display, or only a corner of it. A screen snapshot then looks like something tech support have never seen before!
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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
ok i admit that i have done some skinning before in windowblinds and therfore i'm not shocked by the number of bitmaps an app consists of.
i've already been looking into the dlll and the bitmaps with peexplorer and reshacker but i'm not very comfortable to edit program code.
there are lots of apps that have a built in skin and that can load a set of bitmaps optionally like trillian ...
of course this is nothing for the not-skinning user. and i wouldn't present it as a feature. it would just be there and some talented people would build some nice skins for free :b.
if you just dislike one or two buttons you can change them without hacking.
bb,
FLy
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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
Licence Issues:
I seem to remember reading something on Xara's site (or maybe EULA - but probably not) that stated the software could be used on multiple computers as long as they belong to the same person. That was a definite plus for me.
I wish I could remember where I saw it.
Found it .........
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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
Yes the date is 2006 on that page Keith, before the EULA changes.
Clearly the knowlegde base is in need of updating..
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Yawn!
Another Day ... Another Pointless Release Of Xara !!!!
Yawn-o-rama!
No New Vector Tools And Some Slight Alterations And Some Crap To Keep The Hobbists Happy!!!!
Wow What A Leap Forward They Integrate Xara 3d Into Xara .... Big Wow.
I'll Keep My Money!
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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
but at least it impressed you enough you felt you had to comment :D
your money - your choice
I am sure your work will survive
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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by
handrawn
but at least it impressed you enough you felt you had to comment :D
:( The word is not impressed the word is dissappointed.
I do believe that Xara Ltd have truly lost their way over the last 2-3 years - spending valuable resources developing rubbish to bolt on to a good product rather than updating the product itself. FLASH / HTML?! Come off it.
I remember when it was Xara Studio and I seem to remember there was a red old school TVR sports car on the cover of the box (or at least something that looked like an English sports car). To me what they've effectively done is 'tuned/pimped' that car but neon lights on it, tacky spoilers, spinning 20" rims and painted it in two-tone paint in the direct they've taken it. Rather than updated the older model to a TVR Tuscan!!! Some that works better but does what it set out to do in the first place. Be the most innovative vector package out there.
Live Effect - Pointless 'RASTER' tosh you can do in photoshop.
Xara 3D Integration - More 'RASTER' tosh!
Image Editor Integration - 'RASTER' rubbish.
Xara might be the fastest vector package out there but actually do some updates to the vector tools!
Oh one last thing ...
'4' contours you still haven't sorted that out!!!! But it doesn't supprise me.
:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(
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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
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Originally Posted by
JokeArtist
Live Effect - Pointless 'RASTER' tosh you can do in photoshop.
Xara 3D Integration - More 'RASTER' tosh!
Image Editor Integration - 'RASTER' rubbish.
Well I expect every Xara user can afford PhotoShop to do their raster editing yes?
They probably also have a PC with sufficient resources to open PS while using Xtreme and not have to wait & wait while PS get's all it's parts loaded.
It may be rubbish to you, but this kind of talk is neither constructive, objective or indeed warranted.
We'd love to hear your recommendations for improvments to Vector tools. But we don't like immature ranting thanks..
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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
you are a professional, not a 'hobbist' - therefore your work, which is very good - and you, will survive the disappointment
life is full of them - but I guess we get over it and get on with the work?
no layer enhancements - no brush enhancements, no vector fill of unclosed shapes tool - I am disappointed - but the upgrade itself is not a disappointment to me - it is good
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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
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Originally Posted by
sledger
Well I expect every Xara user can afford PhotoShop to do their raster editing yes?
Paint Shop Pro aint too expensive or any other image editting package for that matter. There's plenty out there.
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Originally Posted by
sledger
They probably also have a PC with sufficient resources to open PS while using Xtreme and not have to wait & wait while PS get's all it's parts loaded.
Xara takes up less resources than MSN Messenger, so by your rational then having Photoshop and MSN Messenger open at the same time would cause a problem and 1gig of ram is like $20 or something now.
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Originally Posted by
sledger
It may be rubbish to you, but this kind of talk is neither constructive, objective or indeed warranted. We'd love to hear your recommendations for improvments to Vector tools. But we don't like immature ranting thanks..
I find this rather a personal attack on me. Flaming if you will. Which is not very nice is it? I am surely entitled to my opinion and frustrations about the lack of movement forward with Xara's development. But if you want me to go through a list of simple improvements and tool that would greatly improve the product here goes;
1. Make everything savable within the default document. Including settings for contour, bevels, drop shadows.
2. Have an option for Saving Undos. One of the great things about Xara is the limitless amount of undos, it would be invitative and useful to save these even if it created massive files.
3. Editable Brush Stroke Profiles.
4. True Vector Bevels / Drop Shadows / Extrudes.
5. Live Plugins which are Vector as well as bitmap. Mathematical formual that changed the vector shapes them selves, like twirls / twists, random deforms, Erm ... rounded corners for any object not just stars and rectangles.
6. Mesh fills and transparencies.
7. True fractle fills (with editable variables). Not just the psuedo bitmap fills that are currently on offer.
8. Better Brush handling. A present the colour replace doesn't work properly. The profiles and pressures don't work properly. If your groupled item has too many shapes in it - it throws a fit. In this day and age it should be able to handle more items. Also bevelled items if they were proper vectors and not just bitmaps would work properly which it does.
9. Multi-layered brushes.
10. Added shape creation tools like the ones seen in Spray, SPX, LGV and more besides.
11. Filter fills such as Zoom, Blur, etc.
There's a few for you and for the Xara team to chew over whilst waiting for another release, which will come to nothing yet again, to come round.
Don't get me wrong, I like Xara and use it every day almost. And I'm always coming up with new and fun ways to use it even after all these years. I just don't see it heading in a sensible direction. It gets more hobbist with every release to the point where I no longer hold my breath when a new release happens. I think he expression is ...
New money for old rope.
I'd much prefer something that actually blew my mind, and to thinking ...
'Wow, now what can i do with this to create something new. How will this tool work with all the other tools I know and like.'
But it hasn't since X2 and probably won't even when it's X10!
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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
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Originally Posted by
JokeArtist
.......rather than updating the product itself.
What did you expect to see as an update.......? The product itself seems to be quite good. A number of artists (Yourself included) seem to have produced some outstanding work with it. Do you want it to work differently - more like Illustrator for example - because I'm quite sure that most of us are quite happy about the way it works, and wouldn't want to change it?
If you don't want to spend your money, and are quite happy with the way it works now, then no-one is forcing you to buy the update. However, the way I see it, a big majority of the users are thrilled about this upgrade, and I think that the "big majority" of the users are Xara's target audience.
EDIT - OK you posted comments whilst I was writing - I'll go back and read them then ...
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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
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Originally Posted by
ss-kalm
What did you expect to see as an update.......?
See above.
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Originally Posted by
ss-kalm
More like Illustrator for example
Well yes, more like a better vector package .... rather than the same old Xara X2 with 20% of Photoshop, 5% of Dreamwaver, 5% of Flash and Xara 3D blotted on the side if that all right. Mind you 2% of Word would be good - i.e. a spell checker!!!
I don't know what we'll see in X5, I'm affraid to say for the fact that it will probably happen, but probably something for organising your digital photo-album and putting nice pre-template frames round them! OR something for goind business flow charts or a basic spreadsheet for doing pie charts. The mind truly boggles!
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Originally Posted by
ss-kalm
I'm quite sure that most of us are quite happy about the way it works, and wouldn't want to change it?
Why are you so sure?
Have you asked everyone or just taken your opinion based on what you've read on this thread? And if so, do all of the users of Xtreme come here to this talkboard? Or can be even bothered to mention it.
I just let my shear and over-riding dissappoint get the better of me I guess.
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Originally Posted by
ss-kalm
A big majority of the users are thrilled about this upgrade, and I think that the "big majority" of the users are Xara's target audience.
Debatable but there is a way to settle it and it's pretty easy ... I'm going to put up a poll.
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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
Ok, I take most of my comments back, and you have obviously thought a lot about things you would like to see.
I'm not sure how many of them are practical without increasing the cost of the product too much. Personally I use Xara for fun, and can't justify paying for the pro version. But if the basic Xara Xtreme gets too much more then I can't justify buying it to play. It would get to be an expensive toy. However, that's my problem not yours.
I would suggest that you take your wants, (as most of them appear to be seriously thought out, and they are your problem not mine) directly to Xara or even right to Charles. Getting at the users because they like this upgrade isn't really doing anything except getting people upset with you.
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Re: Xara Xtreme verison 4
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Originally Posted by
ss-kalm
Getting at the users because they like this upgrade isn't really doing anything except getting people upset with you.
I never 'got at' anyone ... I just voiced my opinion about what I thought about x4 and said why. Just because two people don't agree doesn't mean that you're attacking them.
You like the upgrade good on you. I'm glad you're happy.
Just I'm not.