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Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
Question.
Has Xara fixed that maddening "auto-resize" of the page and layout gallery (all of the galleries, actually) that appeared in XDP8? You know, one sizes it how they want it, switch to another drawing and it changes to a horrible width, resize it, switch back to the first drawing and it happens again. There are other triggers as well.
Should have had a fix for version 8 before this version came out...
Mike
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Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
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Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
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Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pauland
Not as customer friendly as free. It would be superb if they did 6 months trials. I could do six months using Xara, six months using something else, then back to Xara.
30 days is more than generous.
...
Better buy it then.
See how they manage to stay in business a few years down the line.
***I respectfully disagree with your opinion of 30 days being more than generous.
I do have ZBrush and they've been in business for quite awhile, (http://pixologic.com/company/) it's a completely different type of program, 3D digital sculpting. While it's cost of approx $800 is certainly higher than XDP, they value their customers and have grown to become the industry standard due to an extremely loyal customer/user base that has grown to most major motion picture studios. You don't have to nickle and dime current users for every group of feature upgrades. I do realize it's an optional upgrade, the new features look to be quite useful and impressive. However, I know I'm not the only one who was not very clued into any kind of firm release time frame on this new DPX9. I'm not on this board often enough to sort through when releases are actually planned and you can't know that prior to pulling the trigger on a purchase decision what's going to come 3-6 months out.
My 3D Cad jewelry plugin program runs approx $7K so I'm not being cheap here. That gives you all minor upgrades included and 1 major upgrade, then the rest on your own dime if you choose. (http://gemvision.com/matrix/)
The main point is that industry standards for major/feature releases isn't typically every few months. I own a lot of software that I've paid dearly for and use every day, Xara being one of them. Been on since V3. It's my #1 go to program for all things graphic design related. It's got a lot of features that has allowed me to walk away from Photoshop and Illustrator CS3 that I own.
Perhaps it's more frustration that Magix/Xara updates are trickling every few months with sporadic updates/features and you can't predict when it's a good time to upgrade. If I'm not mistaken, Designer Pro X just came out not that long ago and I did take advantage of discounted upgrade from DP7. It could be since Magix acquired Xara that the waters became clouded on release schedules. Prior to that, you could typically go for at least a year with no major upgrades? Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.
I'm not interested in the usual internet flaming/complaining rant as those typically are the result of some short fused, ill informed type of person who's more happy being miserable. That's not me.
I look forward to seeing if there is any official response from TPTB.
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Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
I respectfully ask how if it's your number 1 program for all things graphic design related, and you've been on it since version 3 you've not made it your business to find out what the upgrade cycles pattern is....
Quote:
I'm not interested in the usual internet flaming/complaining rant as those typically are the result of some short fused, ill informed type of person who's more happy being miserable. That's not me.
nor are most of us
And Paul doesn't rant - Paul makes a lot of sense, almost all of the time - so one wonders why you felt the need to say this
EDIT - wait - you upgraded it, it's your number one graphic design program and you can't remember when..... it's been yearly for a while, since around version 3 actually as I recall; maybe 4
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Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
It's a matter of value. Is the product of value to you? If it is and you use it all the time? If so, then the upgrade price is peanuts.
If you are a hobbyist and money is tight, or you don't see that the new tools can do anything you cannot do already, then it is not a good value. At any price.
I am a professional designer. If a product is good and helps me to do my job, then it is worth it and I will recoup the cost.
If you really want to rag on value or lack of same, purchase QuarkXPress and then see what they charge for upgrades. Or how much it costs every time Apple updates their OS. Adobe's move to the Creative Cloud makes sense for design professionals but is a financial hardship to people who only use the product or products occasionally.
If the products you have been using give you long upgrade periods, and if all you care about is price, then stick with what makes you happy.
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Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
The upgrade cycle hasn't been consistent at all. To clear the air, I wasn't even thinking Paul was ranting, I was saying that as that I wasn't ranting. Just expressing frustration. That's allowed.
The program has gone through a lot of good changes, or I wouldn't have upgraded. It used to be however that you could go approx a year or more without a major release. As of late, it's not been that way. I usually have upgraded after the countless emails sent about upgrade by a certain date to take advantage of pricing etc.
It jumped from DP7, then to DPX, now to DPX9 within a pretty short frame of time that could not be predicted like prior releases.
I'm surprised that people think that a 30 day upgrade policy is generous when it isn't.
I own thousands of dollars of professional software and am pretty familiar with typical software cycles. This isn't the case here.
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Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
XDPX came out last end of May so it's had a good run. The cost of the Xara software to upgrade at $99 from X to X9 is less than the cost of 2 fancy coffees / month. Ask Adobe how much coffee you could buy with their upgrade costs.
I only use Xara for hobbyist use but for me, I spend more per year in coffee than I do for the program, I'm not wealthy but to me it seems rather inexpensive however you look at it.
If you're looking for upgrades to the drawing portions of the program and they haven't been addressed then you really do have a beef but the outcome for that is not purchasing the upgrade if the old one is working for you.....you'll be able to buy almost 2 coffees that way per month over the next 12 or so months.
When I first bought Xara, In fact Xara Webdesigner in 2009, I almost immediately bought Xtreme Pro 5 (1 month later, didn't know it was coming out).....at those costs, it's still a hard deal to refuse and I learned from that moment of less than thrifty purchasing to at least come on the forums and check possible delivery dates for the Pro version of that year's Xara. You don't have to be on here often to know that Xara Pro releases tend to be around June and July....proof of that? Check old posts that have to do with people asking when Xara migh be coming out.
I see many excuses and reasons why Xara Pro isn't what it should be or hasn't got this or that.....that's today's reality with any software. The fact is, Xara is moving forward at all times. It may not be moving forward in the direction you wish so if that's the case, you can talk with your money.
For me, a hobbyist, I will almost always upgrade simply because the deal is better here than anywhere else with super support. You can only give out software for free for so long before it bites you in the butt in your business and then.....poof, where are your users going to be left....right.....high and dry with a product with no more upgrades. With Xara, for sure, that would probably not matter because it's so good that whatever version you have, will likely do what you were hoping it would anyway.
With that said, I will soon be upgrading and supporting the hard working programmers of Xara. I want development to continue on the package and, though I don't draw, I hope they will upgrade the drawing portions of the program as well as there has proven to be a need as shown by the many posts of those that do.
This is still such an awesome program that I'm as blown away today by it as I've ever been...
Kudos on you Xara.....
Dates of upgrades and package
Xara Xtreme Pro 5
Registration date:18/09/2009
Xara Designer Pro 6
Registration date:30/06/2010 10 months
Xara Designer Pro 7
Registration date:07/07/2011 11 months
Xara Designer Pro X
Registration date:29/05/2012 10 months
Today's version 13 months
As you can see, these dates are fairly consistent. My reg dates are all within one month of release.
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Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
@ Gary -- I was comparing the DPX 9 photo and drawing tools to P&GD 9 ... they are the same, as far as I can tell.
My first take is that its a nice bringing-together of all the sub-Xaras. And I am intrigued by the Web Documents, after seeing your demos. For a sales brochure, easy enough to output a Web Document, and then a PDF for printing. Both the same, no layout compromises.
But am curious -- why does DPX 9 still use the same desktop icon as the previous version -- the black D on a gold square? All this talk about flat vs skeuomorphic icons... and it stays the same!
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Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gwpriester
And the Photo Heal Tool which Frank is a lot more sophisticated than the Magic Erase Tool
just been testing that and haven't found this to be the case with the photo needing the healing touch (v dirty lens)
but i'm not here to bash xara so won't go into detail here
however ,it's clear xara haven't taken much if any notice of the dear xara forum
nobody to my recollection asked for a regions and masks tool a photo heal tool or a background erase tool
but we got them anyway
and got none of things we asked for
genuine usability ehancements for those of us who use the app for drawing sketching designing illustrating
maybe better just to remove the dear xara forum
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Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
Just to note, That's why I brought up Pixelogic (ZBrush). They have yet to charge for an upgrade since 1997 yet are growing their user base like mad. That wouldn't happen if they weren't making money.
Regardless, I'll be closely watching and studying if the new update is worth the scratch.
To previous contributors to this topic, I do appreciate your thoughtful responses.
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Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
just to add version 7 came out around 25 May 2011....
so that's three years at least that's pretty consistent
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Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gwpriester
...If you really want to rag on value or lack of same, purchase QuarkXPress and then see what they charge for upgrades...
QXP is about $350 every 18 to 24 months. So about 50-60% more than Xara's 12 month cycle costs.
Serif PagePlus X7 upgrade I just purchased, $59, about a 16 month cycle. Other Serif titles, about the same release cycle, but less expensive to upgrade.
PhotoLine upgrades are about $35 every 12-16 months. But they are also a special case. They release not only bug fixes but product enhancements and new features during that period.
InDesign--up until the cloud--$120 every 18 months or so.
Illustrator--up until the cloud--$150 (iirc), again, every 18 months or so.
Add to that Acrobat, ArtRage, TwistedPixel, MS Office, etc., etc. Sometimes regardless of cash-flow, it is nice to be able to plan upgrade cycles and that can be difficult without knowledge of particular company's upgrade dates (but fully understand/agree why that isn't general knowledge).
Having just upgraded several titles in the past few months, money can get tight. 30 day windows--or however long Xara has the window open for the Intro Offer can make it especially tight. Specially if you had my doctor bills.
Mike
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Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
version 6 released 16 june 2010
version 5 released 04 june 2009
version 4 pre-released 06 april 2008 and final relesase a month or two later
still looks consistent to me...
EDit - I see karateed has added these too, at the point of his registration - the actual release dates though, taken from this forum announcements are pretty consistent :D
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Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DigitalJeweler
I'm surprised that people think that a 30 day upgrade policy is generous when it isn't.
I agree. A 30 day upgrade policy is too short. XDP is a good product, but to ask someone that just purchase the product 32 days ago to pay again, is not very fair.
I can see a 90 day (or even a 60 day upgrade policy), but 30 is too short.
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Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
ok back to the thread topic
sorry, I'm not upgrading
I don't use the product for:
publishing web sites
large bitmap editing - that's a photoshop job with scratch disks an' all
DTP ...
so what's in it for me?:
64 bit version - well that can wait, maybe next time
a slider on the shape builder nib - useful, but...
and er....
so next time it is , 79 quid can be better spent this time round.....
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Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
Thanks for the corrected update dates, that's why I said correct me if I'm wrong ;)
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Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
no problem - I find it best to use google search to find them - VBulletin search is useless a lot of the time
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Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
Hey Handrawn,
That is exactly the response you should have to any software that you perceive to give you no additional value going forward.....you know you'll have another opportunity in about 1 year from now to change your mind if some of the upgrades meet your drawing needs.....I sincerely hope you get those much needed upgrades.....Xara?
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Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
personally i dont care about the cost or the upgrade cycle or upgrade window
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Karateed
I will soon be upgrading and supporting the hard working programmers of Xara. I want development to continue on the package and, though I don't draw, I hope they will upgrade the drawing portions of the program as well as there has proven to be a need as shown by the many posts of those that do.
well i have already upgraded for that very reason
i also want development to continue on the package
i do draw
I too hope they will upgrade the drawing portions of the program
there has proven to be a need as shown by the many posts of those that do draw
yet in two maybe three major updates sod all has been done to address that
that why im whining like a stuck pig
and i think as a drawing professional who has invested in the program since 1999 that im entitled to
and it strikes me that its the drawing professionals who are continually whining
because they love this program not because of its faults because it has few (now that's worth kudos)
but because of its glaring omissions in favour of hobbyist tools
i think xara/magix is pandering to a hoby / semi professional market and thats just a crying shame
but they know their market better than i do and commercial interest rules
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Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
Mr. Jeweler - Actually I tend to agree with you that a 30 day upgrade window is a bit narrow.
Especially when Xara/Magix run these specials to sell off the last of the old product and then, surprise, surprise, come out with a new version.
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Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
yeh Gary, agree with that
@ED - thanks for the vote of confidence, the days when I could upgrade willy-nilly are gone....
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Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gwpriester
Mr. Jeweler - Actually I tend to agree with you that a 30 day upgrade window is a bit narrow.
Especially when Xara/Magix run these specials to sell off the last of the old product and then, surprise, surprise, come out with a new version.
EXACTLY!
It just feels like you're getting screwed. When I've spent thousands on a lot of pro software, that doesn't happen.
The point I was trying to make that no one seems to get is that not charging for minor upgrades does not mean that the company doesn't grow/make money or invest in product development.
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Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
Hi...I downloaded the new version, and wanted to go through it with Gary Priester's "First Look", but I can't seem to get past the "Before we start" page linked to in post #4.
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Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
Section tabs along the top of the page.
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Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
The good:
- 64-bit.
- Dropping a color on a grouped object and getting a list of all the named colors in the group so you can select what named color you want to change is awesome, it works great. These are the simple but effective features I wish Xara would spend more time on creating. Improve the basic features we use constantly.
- Page numbers, finally.
- You can publish a perfectly accurate WYSIWYG web version of your print documents. I can see myself using this.
- Automatic higher quality images on retina displays for your websites. Since this is difficult to achieve yourself with a workaround I'll put it in the 'good' category.
- This also applies for the Google Analytics support.
The average:
- Font embedding should be interesting.
- You now have some useful options when you right-click on one of your open document tabs.
- Multi-column text. It was already very easy to do that yourself.
- Being able to insert a column break in your multi-columns.
- Automatic text flow to a new page.
- The 'Photo healing', 'background erase', 'new masking tools' features are interesting but I would still use dedicated programs for those tasks.
The bad:
- It is annoying not to see ANY improvements in the vector tools. I still for some reason think of Xara as a VECTOR program.
- The upgrade policy has been changed; you now no longer have the same upgrade price if you want to skip versions. This was one of the things I liked about Xara.
- You still need to fix that text fly-out menu with a regedit fix to make it always stay open.
- There are too many fly-out menus on the left by default, there is plenty of room and the Shape Tool really deserves its own spot by default. In v9 the fly-out menus do stay open for a bit if you move your mouse off them which is nice.
- I don't understand why the Share menu should be prominently visible at the top instead of hidden somewhere, make it a button in the export menu. This isn't an iPad app.
- The live effects button is now located under the photo fly-out menu even though a lot of effects work just fine for your vector graphics.
- The amount of feather distance you can apply to an object is still very low.
- The trial version wanted to install something called Simplicheck by default... great.
- Why was the last version called X and not 8? Now Designer PRO X9 is newer than Designer Pro X.
- But most importantly, no vector improvements.
I'll just echo what's been said about ZBrush. I've bought ZBrush in January 2006 and the updates to the program are always amazing. Someone on ZBrushcentral.com said about the 4.6 release "Pixologic doesn't seem to understand the concept of a minor point release", and that's certainly true.
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Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
Quote:
You still need to fix that text fly-out menu with a regedit fix to make it always stay open...the Shape Tool really deserves its own spot by default...The live effects button is now located under the photo fly-out menu
XaReg2 will fix the text fly out menu
Windows >> Control bars >> Button palette - alt+drag to add or remove buttons
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Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
Right about the upgrade policy - I have an apology to make.
When I wrote my comments, I read upgrade policy in the post, but actually had free trial wired in my head and my 30 day comment was made with that thought in my mind.
It was the wrong thought and my comment was the wrong comment for that reason. I apologize.
Now for the real comment.
30 days as a free-upgrade window. It's entirely reasonable - Xara has no obligation to do it, regardless of the facts that company XYZ offers a more generous window and that company ABC doesn't offer any free-upgrade window. I'm not going to research a list of company policies, but I think 30 days grace was the norm for a long time, probably still is, even if there are exceptions.
If I were Xara, I'd probably go for six-weeks as the free-upgrade cut-off, but no more than two months. Six months as a free-upgrade window is way, way too long.
I think Xara are probably building themselves a problem over this for the future ( some would say now) because they are building a portfolio of products with similar sounding names ( that keep changing) under the Xara and Magix brand. It's as though the marketing department took a shotgun to a pile of product pamphlets and picked product names from the fragments. The issue is that users across the board (new and old) are now confused about which product is which and that's going to translate into confusion about upgrades. It already has. Xara/Magix are making a complete mess over their branding and product names.
Adobe has been criticised over their pricing, etc, but at least the product names are not confusable.
Confusion aside, I think that most of the talk about free-upgrades seems to gloss over the impact on the Xara/Magix bottom-line. I'm sure that some marketing whiz will know that the size of the window will have some kind of monetary impact - it's a question of knowing the sweet spot. I realise that some users think longer is better for the free-upgrade window, but I suspect that would impact income, while for a small number of users they might be annoyed enough to not upgrade in the future. I think that "annoyed user" category may be genuinely upset, but whether they are upset enough to cut off their own nose and not upgrade in the future is another matter.
If I bought a product and they upgraded it 32 days latter and I missed out, I might feel a bit peeved to not be getting the latest version for my money. I might be just as annoyed with myself for not doing a bit of research before ponying up the cash and I might feel a bit sillier still by not downloading the trial version and using it free for 30 days, and then perhaps upgrading - a simple move that would extend the free-upgrade window to two months.
Ultimately Xara should make the free-upgrade window long enough for most users not to feel taken advantage of, but not so large it affects their bottom line.
30 days may be frustrating and could be longer, but I don't think it's unreasonable. The line has to be drawn somewhere and someone is always going to be frustrated when they just go over it.
Have a think about six weeks or sixty days Xara, it might ease the issue at minimal impact to the bottom line.
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Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
The new FX button isn't available in the buttons palette. All the rest of the buttons from the photo tools flyout are there but not the FX button.
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
Yes it is F, you can alt+drag it from the Photo Tools flyout in the button palette.
Attachment 97085
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Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
I Just bought "off course without reading" version 9 the 64 bit version and after installing and reorganizing all my Menus etc. I found out that the Plugins wouldn’t even work at all and they call that an UPGRADE? That is what we call a downgrade!
Ok after installing the 32 bit version which was surprisingly free of charge while the 64 bit version wouldn’t work for me I had to spend another Hour again reorganizing all my icons again.
Could someone please make a tool for moving or copying your icons / menu structure to a newer or even an older version if you need to re-install etc.
AND Please bring Back the Plugin Icon on the left bar as it was, and Yes you can alt+drag and drop the F from the Button Palette but the Photo tool icon on the left will then also change which is really annoying!
Best regards from a really disappointed customer from Austria,
Ruud.
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Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
You can run both versions, just not at the same time.
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Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
I'm interested in this new version as Xara says it is compatible with touch devices. I like using my Surface Pro/win8.1 and Xara is already pretty good to use on it. I don't use the desktop for drawing any more, this tablet is my drawing device now. Adobe software like Dreamweaver is still better on the desktop, except for Flash. For anything drawing I like the tablet more.
The Xara icons are bigger and easier to control than Adobe programs with their minute interfaces and I'm hoping Xara have made them more so. It would be great to have a Xara interface that allows further customisation of the menus etc so bigger buttons and my few most commands in the menus are able to be replaced by new buttons. Also it would be useful to be able to remove gallery buttons at the right as my hand often opens them when not wanted and I hardly use them anyway.
I'm with Gary about corelXara having most of what I need still. But the pressure pen and eraser is so good and great to use on a tablet. So I'll upgrade to the Designer rather than the pro. Really looking forward to see Xara improvements aimed at the Surface.
Q
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Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
Note on installing: choose custom installation so you get the option to skip the installation of Simplicheck (another disappointment for Magix)
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Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
So you can't use Photoshop plug-ins at all inside the 64-bit version which is definitely not good. Will we get support for Photoshop plug-ins in this 64-bit version? Or is this one of those things that will get fixed a year from now in a new version?
And another thing I've noticed, if you use the regedit SuperWideInfobar fix the new Strikethrough option gets removed from the bar.
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Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
A 32 bit app can only call functions in a 32 bit DLL (a plug-in is a special kind of DLL). A 64 bit app can only call functions in a 64 bit DLL. Thus a plug-in has to be specifically made.
Even PhotoShop 64bit doesn't support 32bit plugins.. So it's not Xara's doing. But you may install both versions of DPX9 on the same license.
The reg edit issue: see ► http://www.talkgraphics.com/showthre...751#post481751
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Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pauland
30 days may be frustrating and could be longer, but I don't think it's unreasonable. The line has to be drawn somewhere and someone is always going to be frustrated when they just go over it.
Have a think about six weeks or sixty days Xara, it might ease the issue at minimal impact to the bottom line.
Six weeks or sixty days is very reasonable and should not affect the profit bottom line for Xara.
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Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Michael
Note on installing: choose custom installation so you get the option to skip the installation of Simplicheck (another disappointment for Magix)
What is Simplicheck?
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
I understand the 32/64 bit difference; the thing is you can't open 64-bit plugins in Xara Designer Pro X9 64-bit at all.
All you get is a message saying you should use the 32-bit version of Xara if you want to use Photoshop plugins.
Attachment 97091
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Re: x9 - no new drawing tools
Simplicheck. It's basically spam Magix/Xara decided to bundle with the trial version in order to make more money by giving us bloat.