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Re: Sockxpert.com - Stock Images. Yours?
Risto: There is no need to get mad. Thank you for confirming the truth to my statement. If you modify your phrase in the future to something like: "no one will stop you, unless it touches a nerve with the moderators," there is no need for me to make simple, observational statements, as I did.
Best wishes,
David
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Re: Sockxpert.com - Stock Images. Yours?
I think Risto is quite forthright in his views on the microsites and it can come across as a bit abrasive. He's human like the rest of us and we can cut him some slack rather than beat every posting nuance to death and bore us silly in the process.
Paul
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Re: Sockxpert.com - Stock Images. Yours?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pauland
...beat every posting nuance to death and bore us silly in the process.
I agree--he didn't have to beat it to death, but he did.
As per my take on stock microsites: I don't care. Use them if you feel drawn to do so. Don't if you don't. The owners of those sites are only human as well, and are trying to do the best they can for themselves. They believe that the world is a cutthroat place, so their business practices reflect that. They are wrong--the world is not a cutthroat place, but only a spiritual shift in perspective will change that idea.
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Re: Sockxpert.com - Stock Images. Yours?
David,
it's no question: no one will stop you, unless you post the wrong things. I'm sure, you have no problem with that, because some moderation is necessary within a forum.
Remi
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Re: Sockxpert.com - Stock Images. Yours?
Actually, I am extremely grateful Risto did what he did, (as he is charged with as an administrator) He did his part, which is to maintain the look and feel of this site, as well as advise it's members to simply "be careful"
If he had wanted to delete the entire ordeal.... he "would" most certainly have had every right too.. But it is clear that he saw it important enough of a subject to keep it alive (and he only "moved it" on to a more appropriate spot on the forum)
Through this thread, and thanks to Risto's advice, I have learned the value of "looking before I leap"!! And thus, I have actually been investigating ways in which to protect myself (my work) even before I once again, begin to investigate the world of marketing... because as you said yourself Dave, to sum it up (it is shark infested waters...) and people like myself are easy prey out there.... It's nice to have someone around to throw you a life preserver (even when they didn't "have to")
I am completely new to the pc graphics and marketing world, and I am extremely naive when it comes to any of it.... (as I am sure are others)
And to add, I have seen Risto (and the Mods) do nothing but conduct such matters as keeping this site as nice as it is,etc. with nothing less than the utmost professionalism and politeness.
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Re: Sockxpert.com - Stock Images. Yours?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
geminiguy
...And to add, I have seen Risto (and the Mods) do nothing but conduct such matters as keeping this site as nice as it is,etc. with nothing less than the utmost professionalism and politeness.
I have seen otherwise (but not very often), and Risto's responses to me in this thread are one example. A professional response would have been "Yeah, David, you're right, point taken. How do you feel about stock microsites?" Instead of responding like that in a manner to lead the conversation, he responded in a manner designed to inflame. I guess he was having a bad day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
remi
...no one will stop you, unless you post the wrong things. I'm sure, you have no problem with that, because some moderation is necessary within a forum.
No, I don't with it. But when a socially responsible conversation is taking place, and that conversation is axed without any explanation, and the moderators don't state why it was discontinued, or post somewhere that discussions of such and such a nature are not allowed, even though the board's topic guideline indicates that they are, something is wrong.
As a test, I'll post this thread. Will I get banned, even though I've only tried to be helpful in all of my postings? Will the thread get pulled? If so, will someone somewhere state that discussions on ethics and prudence are not allowed? Will they create a sticky stating what other topics are not allowed as they come up? Will they modify the board's description?
Color me a fool, but at least I've said my peace.
Best wishes to all, including you, Risto. My statements in a past PM about being in awe of your talents still stands, and I thank you for giving your time to moderate these boards.
David
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Re: Sockxpert.com - Stock Images. Yours?
As I said in the other thread, if you need to push boundaries, you're probably not getting what talkgraphics is (like I would know definitively - LOL).
Better to make some drawings and let boundaries and moderators see to themselves. I think my mums advice would be "boundaries are there for a reason, so stay well back..".
Paul
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Re: Sockxpert.com - Stock Images. Yours?
David is there something specific that is bothering you?
From reading your statements it would appear you feel you have been singled out and that your personal rights have been restricted.
I don't see that anything Risto said would have prompted statements about threads being deleted without justification.
What has happened that you feel you may be banned by starting a new thread?
I know this is totally off topic as most of the posts within this thead have been. But I truely would like to know what is happening that is not obvious from the posts within the thread.
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Re: Sockxpert.com - Stock Images. Yours?
Quote:
David is there something specific that is bothering you?
I have always respected your comments and actions in these boards Bill, so for you I'll try to give my best answer.
The response to the thread that was mentioned is the issue. (And the response to the thread that was just posted, but that is mild compared to the original issue. See below.) To me, the first response came across as a slight to all of the members of this board, and I am one of those who tries to change things for the better when it brings up strong feelings. (The joy of being bull-headed, like Risto.)
One problem is that the thread occurred so far in the past that I cannot remember blow-by-blow what occurred, so if the facts are wrong, please forgive me. What happened created a subjective truth, and the objective rendering that follows is the best my memory allows.
In December, someone posted a thread about a stupid flame topic that quickly proceeded to go awry. It was imbecilic, and it was probably a good thing to close it, or delete it. But as part of that thread, one of the members made the statement that 'ethics' was keeping them from taking action on the knowledge that one of their fellow members of a governing body was corrupt, which they knew for a fact. That issue wasn't tied to the original flame war, and I felt that it was very important to point out to that member that it wasn't ethics at all, but prudence that was keeping them from making a statement about the other member. In fact, 'ethics' probably dictates that they figure out a way to depose the corrupt member in a manner that best serves the interests of everyone involved, as the body being governed wasn't asking for corruption.
Before a response of that nature could be posted, Risto had closed the thread. To me, the new topic, that had nothing to do with the original 'flame' topic, was very important, as it may have a significant positive social impact. So I created a thread that dealt only with that issue, to make the appropriate points in a manner that other people could ponder and respond to.
Risto stated in that thread that I had terribly breached protocols, and I believe he implied (if he didn't state outright) that I could be banned for doing so, even though the topic of the thread he closed was not the topic of the new thread. I asked him whether the off-topic boards were appropriate for the new subject, and if not, what was appropriate for the off-topic board, as it didn't state that topic as being off-limits. He responded without answering the question, stating that the moderator's decisions were final, and not to be questioned, and at least implying that doing so would have serious consequences for me. Then, before anyone could read his reply, both threads were deleted. (The impression given is that he deleted them on his own, as it was late at night, and not many people were on at that time.)
It pissed me off, because that was a very non-professional way to handle the situation. If that subject was not to be broached again, that should have been indicated somewhere, but it never was. So when Risto made his comment in this thread about 'no one stopping the poster,' I responded in an effort to get my previous disgruntlement out of me. When he replied as he did in this thread, it floored me--I was making a simple point, and he was doing anything but acknowledge it.
Anyway, that's done and over, and he probably got the point, even though I'll agree that in a way this whole thing was stupid. But I feel better for getting it off my chest, so thank you for the opportunity to do so.
As indicated above, the response to the newly posted thread is also somewhat irking, because it comes across as unprofessional. That thread was posted because it was felt that the Off-topic board was the best board in which to discuss the interface between ethics and prudence, just as it was when I created the original thread. (The probability of a flame war on the subject is extremely small, and that it had the making of an incredibly interesting discussion with the original poster, and possibly some other members, as the OP's viewpoint was so different.) The 'feedback' portion in the new post was only part of the post.
When it was moved to the Feedback forum, it felt like someone was saying, "Ha, I don't want a discussion on ethics and prudence here, so I'll silence this by pretending that the entire thing is feedback, and putting it in the forum nobody reads." A professional response would have been to either leave it in the Off-topic forum, or to split it somehow so the feedback portion was in the feedback thread, and the Off-topic forum contained the seeds to a valid conversation about ethics and prudence, if anybody wanted to discuss that topic. (And that's my piece (peace?) about that topic, so unless someone put in something interesting to respond to, I have no plans to beat the topic to death any more.) But by moving it, as was done, its been implied twice that the off-topic forum cannot contain discussions of that nature.
That's it. It is hoped that from some perspective this post is interesting, and worth the time took making it. It is also hoped that it remains on the boards (even though this portion should be in a thread on its own).
Best wishes,
David
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Re: Sockxpert.com - Stock Images. Yours?
Too many I's in one post for one to count.... :eek:
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Re: Sockxpert.com - Stock Images. Yours?
Thank you, gidgit. The person making this post :) hopes it is a little better now.
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Re: Sockxpert.com - Stock Images. Yours?
Your welcome, David :)
Cheers
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Re: Sockxpert.com - Stock Images. Yours?
David thanks for taking the time to explain. Work has me tied up at present so only a short responce is possible now. I will reply more tomorrow after my project is complete.
Please know that no one intentionally made any changes that were meant to cause confusion or ill feelings.
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Re: Sockxpert.com - Stock Images. Yours?
All this stuff has nothing to do with Stock Images (the subject of this thread). It's so "off topic". We should move it to another thread into the "Off topic Chat" board.
Remi
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Re: Sockxpert.com - Stock Images. Yours?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
a4hire
Thank you Risto and Remi for pointing out how the business model works. :eek: I think I can make more money promoting my own web site and selling any work from there.:D
Yep I thank them too, for I now see the business model and it sounds
less lucrative to do. I just wonder, does the 50 dollar go per image or for all the images you have there, lets say one image generates 30 bucks and another also 30 bucks, do they pay out or is it per image?
And is it that you have to sell 100 images (because they keep half of the money) before they pay out?
Just some questions i have.
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Re: Sockxpert.com - Stock Images. Yours?
Sorry to react this late but I was away for a holiday so I missed this post.
I'm involved in microstock for little over two years now. It has brought me so many opportunities. April of this year I started my own company and became a professional illustrator. Last August I was able to quit my boring part-time job and now I'm able to focus all my attentions on illustrating (I've still so much to learn) I couldn't have done this without the help of the microstock sites, they provide more or less a steady income each month.
I started with Dreamstime wich I stumbled upon while surfing the internet searching for pictures. At first I tried photo's but soon I learned that my illustrations attracted more downloads than my photo's did. After a couple of weeks I submitted my first illustrations at Shutterstock and after that I tried iStock. With iStock it is not easy to become a submitter. You need to provide a first batch of pictures where you have to show your ability to become a good illustrator/photographer. I was lucky to get in the first time but there are many people who had to try several times to get in. At last I submitted to StockXpert.
It is not an easy way to earn your money, I've put in a lot of time and afford but it is sure fun to earn money with the thing I love the most and that is digital illustrating!
I've learned so much in this past two years, things I'd never learned if I didn't become involved in microstock. By drawing for stock you draw images and subjects you never would have drawn otherwise. Also looking at the images of other submitters does learn you a lot about subjects and techniques.
It also is a great way to get exposure for your work. Due to microstock I've had a couple of custom assignments. The Christmas giftcard with the surfing Santa from Mervyns (don't know if it's out yet) is one of them.
I know that $0,25 up to $6.00 doesn't seem much but if you produce images that are doing well it will earn you a fair amount of money. I have images that earned me $500- $600 already and they're still selling.
iStockphoto is the toughest to get into but is sure the best site to have your images on.
Shutterstock gives you $0,30 per download but generates much more downloads than any other site (my number two on the earning list).
StockXpert is my number three and growing fast!
Dreamstime is the last one on the list.
If you want to check out my portfolio on iStock this is the link:
http://istockphoto.com/file_search.p...&userID=573080
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Re: Sockxpert.com - Stock Images. Yours?
Joto,
It's great to see how well you're doing and particularly good to have a perspective from someone who's actually using these sites to sell and market themselves.
Thanks for the post.
Paul
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Re: Sockxpert.com - Stock Images. Yours?
Thanks for pitching in, Jolande! Great to see how the different stock sites works for you.
Your portfolio is very professional! :cool:
Curious: do you find any of the sites easier to get illustrations approved at, or do you find them all about the same? Approved / rejections? If you yourself are seldom rejected - do you have a feel for it, from forums or what have you?
Risto
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Re: Sockxpert.com - Stock Images. Yours?
Oh, I get my share of rejections alright. Particulary iStock is quiet picky sometimes. The acceptance rate at iStock is little over 80%. Some are rejected due to technical problems and can be resubmitted. The other three sites the acceptance rate is app 98%. The advantage of submitting to several sites is that if one rejects an image you can submit it to the other.
I also experienced that the best-seller on one site can be a slow-seller on the other.
The most research (I don't know if that's the right word) I do is on iStock. I check the new images that are approved each day and see what the images do when they are online for some time. That way you get a feeling what subjects and styles are doing well. The images I draw are a mix of subjects that do well and things I like to draw.
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Re: Sockxpert.com - Stock Images. Yours?
Risto, reading your thread i think you've shocked people with your 'tone' but i think you are bang on and that 'tone' is just how angry you are at this site that will sell our images and if for whatever reason fall short of the $50 then you get nothing...............its a con :(
it should be like google adsense.............you get paid when you reach a certain amount but the money is there, its not forfeit under certain circumstances..............you might just have to wait until the next month for it. i thank you anyway as i'd have signed up without checking out the details
:)
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Re: Sockxpert.com - Stock Images. Yours?
It's NOT a "con". All sites are pretty clear on how they work - artists just have to read the contract/TOS carefully.
Yes, my "tone" was off... Yes, I should have put things more diplomatically... :rolleyes: However, I'm not angry with the site mentioned. I was disapointed that one particular site was promoted --- as there are many out there. I was aslo disapointed that the particular site (and concept) was made to look like the second coming of Christ, which it is not. A lot of people never reach the $50 so all they accomplished is to feed someone else. 50 cent or less for the use of an image might not be enough for some artist here (read the contract/TOS carefully before signing up).
Look at Jolande's post: research, hard work and a great portfolio will sell images, and the money is banked as with Adsense.
The big difference with micro stock sites is that you are banking on your physical work and copyrighted material - a real commodity. Adsense is just one advertisement method out of many. Another big difference is that you control the ads on your site - a stock site OTH can remove any or all of your images at their discretion (e.g. if it's not selling fast enough according to abstract rules they define for that particular day).
It's not for every one, which I'm sure many members are aware of by now. Please don't sell yourself short - or quickly - research before deciding if to sign up or not.
Risto
Quote:
Originally Posted by
suunto
Risto, reading your thread i think you've shocked people with your 'tone' but i think you are bang on and that 'tone' is just how angry you are at this site that will sell our images and if for whatever reason fall short of the $50 then you get nothing...............its a con :(
it should be like google adsense.............you get paid when you reach a certain amount but the money is there, its not forfeit under certain circumstances..............you might just have to wait until the next month for it. i thank you anyway as i'd have signed up without checking out the details
:)
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Re: Sockxpert.com - Stock Images. Yours?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Risto Klint
I was disapointed that one particular site was promoted --- as there are many out there. I was aslo disapointed that the particular site (and concept) was made to look like the second coming of Christ, which it is not.
:D
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Re: Sockxpert.com - Stock Images. Yours?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Risto Klint
I was disapointed that one particular site was promoted --- as there are many out there.
LOL, I'd better promote a few others then.. ;-)
There's nothing like a quote out of context.
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Re: Sockxpert.com - Stock Images. Yours?
Ahhh... Ok, that didn't come out quite right either. :D
Risto
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Re: Sockxpert.com - Stock Images. Yours?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Risto Klint
It's NOT a "con". All sites are pretty clear on how they work - artists just have to read the contract/TOS carefully.
Yes, my "tone" was off... Yes, I should have put things more diplomatically... :rolleyes: However, I'm not angry with the site mentioned. I was disapointed that one particular site was promoted --- as there are many out there. I was aslo disapointed that the particular site (and concept) was made to look like the second coming of Christ, which it is not. A lot of people never reach the $50 so all they accomplished is to feed someone else. 50 cent or less for the use of an image might not be enough for some artist here (read the contract/TOS carefully before signing up).
Look at Jolande's post: research, hard work and a great portfolio will sell images, and the money is banked as with Adsense.
The big difference with micro stock sites is that you are banking on your physical work and copyrighted material - a real commodity. Adsense is just one advertisement method out of many. Another big difference is that you control the ads on your site - a stock site OTH can remove any or all of your images at their discretion (e.g. if it's not selling fast enough according to abstract rules they define for that particular day).
It's not for every one, which I'm sure many members are aware of by now. Please don't sell yourself short - or quickly - research before deciding if to sign up or not.
Risto
well we can use different words for it if you want but i'll stick to con or if you want.............its a fix :D
Jolande's post is cool, it shows it can be done and seeing his work on the site would inspire someone to do the same rather, maybe stockxpert should have started with examples of peoples work and then ditched the $50 ............co* fi*.......situation ;)
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Re: Sockxpert.com - Stock Images. Yours?
Suunto, I think your description of Stockxpert, smiley or not, is pretty objectionable.
You may not like what they do, but their terms are available and the whole thing has been discussed openly. I don't see that anything is hidden and people are free to make a choice.
Paul
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Re: Sockxpert.com - Stock Images. Yours?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pauland
Suunto, I think your description of Stockxpert, smiley or not, is pretty objectionable.
You may not like what they do, but their terms are available and the whole thing has been discussed openly. I don't see that anything is hidden and people are free to make a choice.
Paul
cool, thats your right, we can all have opinions and thats mine
i do like what they do.............just not the fact if you don't hit the $50 mark you get nothing
if you do one hour less of work this week you would still want to be paid for the other 39 (or however many you do) i can see why risto got started on this now :D
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Re: Sockxpert.com - Stock Images. Yours?
A 'con' is a deception, as is a 'fix'. I don't see how either apply in this case. It doesn't matter what you think of the business model, I don't see how those words apply.
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Re: Sockxpert.com - Stock Images. Yours?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pauland
A 'con' is a deception, as is a 'fix'. I don't see how either apply in this case. It doesn't matter what you think of the business model, I don't see how those words apply.
did you google that ;)
it matters to me what i think of the business model, thats not for you to say
i'm not asking you to see how those words apply, you make your own mind up, submit your designs and when they reach $49 and you get nothing for them, you can have your opinion and i'll respect it
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Re: Sockxpert.com - Stock Images. Yours?
You're entitled to your opinion about the business model - that doesn't bother me, but since the model isn't hidden I don't see any deception of any sort. If the model was as bad as suggested, the business will disappear rapidly as people pull out.
I've come across plenty of dodgy businesses on the web that are out and out cons and you'll have to explain how stockxpert is a 'con' (as in 'confidence trick') because I just don't see it.
I understand completely why people may dislike the business model, but it is completely transparent. If you don't like it don't use them.
There's also a secondary notion here I think. Risto and others have commented about the dangers of selling yourself short by selling images too cheaply and I understand that completely - it's good advice. On the other hand it's not necessarily incompatible with the micro-site model. Lets face it, a good image - no matter how good - doesn't sell itself.
The value of an image IMHO is a balance between the reputation of the artist and the quality of the work. It's no good having a great portfolio if it only exists on your PC and on your personal website that nobody goes to.
Few people would expect all their images to fetch top dollar, particularly early on in their artistic career before becoming established. It seems to me that before becoming established people will do well to concentrate on 'spreading the word' not squeezing profit from a small number of sales. In this way I would imagine microsites can be a big help, if not a huge revenue earner. If people like your work there, they'll surely go looking for more and better work directly from you?
If I can't sell 50 images for a dollar worldwide for web distribution, why would anyone want to pay me $500 for that same image? If you want to test the water where demand for your work is, where better than a micro-site? If you use a micro-site do you have to post that dead-cert $5,000 image? No you don't.
Once you can sell your work without the microsites, then stop selling on them. Job done! In the real world only a fraction of artistic endeavour is sold and only a fraction of that sells for big money. Competition is fierce.
Now for the other side. Those supposedly money-grabbing site operators. I think we all forget about the costs of running a site. if you look at the pictures hosted and the sales you'll probably find that they're hosting a lot more images than they can sell and have huge bandwidth requirements. As a customer I buy few images, but download a lot of watermarked images to consider.
I really think that looking at the $50 barrier is a bit misleading. I don't particularly like the cutoff but I can understand why it's there. The important thing is to consider the positive aspects of a microsite in promoting yourself and testing the market rather than worrying about how much money you aren't making. Lets face it, if you aren't making money on a microsite, you probably aren't making money elsewhere either. If you are making lots of money elsewhere, don't bother with the microsite.
Anyway, I think I'm done with this now. Dead horses and all that.
Paul
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Re: Sockxpert.com - Stock Images. Yours?
What Paul said.
And the dead horses and all that...
Time to move on.
Risto