I like that one Mike very much
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I like that one Mike very much
That's inspired and wonderful, Mike!
-g
Thanks, csehz & Gary.
Not that I would layout a book in XDP, but I might use it to quickly play with an overall theme or design...And I would certainly use it for graphic elements.
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The series I began last month isn't about Desktop Publishing, because 1.) Desktop Publishing today is largely creating a template, dumping text from MS-Word into the template, and then placing images in-between paragraphs, or however the template dictates the positioning of the graphical elements.
And that is stultifying (see also boring, mind-numbing, minimum wage, third world).
And using Xara Designer for DTP is an example of the wrong tool for a specific job. If you did even an average chapter from a book in Xara, you'd soon get a system slowdown because images are actually placed in the document instead of being linked as Adobe InDesign and Quack Xpress do. Think of taking a complex illustration in Xara and extruding it—same sort of strain on the display engine.
What I'll go on and on about (!) next year is page layout; yes, you can do an 8-pager in Xara exceptionally well, perhaps even a few more, folio-style, but again, page layout is a building block of DTP...I fail to see how not learning how page elements work in concert would make you a pro designing an actual dtp template.
I've been using Xara for almost ten years, composing 8 page color sections for books, and the production department has absolutely no problem with them, be they TIFF images they super text upon, or EPS graphics, so perhaps I'll offer an aside here and there concerning "size", but it's a technical issue and not a creative one.
Mike, several members have commented on "The Point", how visually exciting it is.
It's because the page is laid out creatively, right?
I'd love to have taught that page, how your visual "hook" serves as a column divider. How you used white space in the 3/4 space in an imaginary grid to push the viewer's eye up to the headline.
Even if you weren't consciously aware of the "rules" you were following in the piece, clearly you have an innate understanding that you follow as a creative person.
I hope everyone had a pleasant Christmas, the stress is gone now, and you still have some of those cookies left in the kitchen.
That tin looked LARGE!
:)
My Best,
Gary
I only did a book page to make a point from elsewhere ;)
Re, The Point. I had more text originally. I took everything away I could until it made the point without the extraneous verbiage. I like retro design, I like retro typefaces. The execution only took a few minutes. The gestation period had been a couple weeks. There are still more rattling around the noggin.
Now, this is the type of thing I have used XDP for. An 8 page menu served up...this being a mock-up. Cover and an interior spread.
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These will be my last contribution (probably). I feel like I am the Lone Ranger. Someone, anyone, please post some samples and save y'all from me.
You're not A Lone, Mike; sensible people (IOW those not online during the Xmas/New Year "hammock") haven't hit this thread yet. But clearly, this topic is getting a lot of hits, so we'll be patient and I'll post and image soon and ask someone to work it into a page layout, what say?
My Best,
Gary
Good page layout isn't just for DTP, it's important for website design too. I've got a web design job I'm starting in a couple of days and I will be using a grid based layout. When I get a chance I'll post a screen shot or two.
Ack!
:)
I'm trying to confine all this page layout jazz to the printed page!
Yep, you're absolutely correct, though, Frances: a good layout is portable, as are the disciplines.
-g
How about this for an assignment/challenge?
Here's a picture; let's pretend it's a full page ad or article in a Conde Nast publication.
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Where would you put the headline? Where would you put the body copy? How many columns? What font would you choose for the headline and the text?
There's no "right" answer here.
I'm just interested after watching the video how members woulds arrange the layout, now that the image is a given.
Attached is a large JPEG for Xara.
-g
Ok I've had a go at this. I envisioned an ad for a glassware line. I took a simple approach and used a single font in multiple weights except for the logo. I took advantage of the reflections natural tendency to draw your view downward and the important information is placed at the bottom.
My resistance didn't last long, did it? Can I chalk it up to the forums I inhabit being slow for aid? Works for me...
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Thanks, Gary!
Gone the same way as Francis and Mike, which are both excellent, and treated as an ad. Utilized that neat trick of Mike's to extend the T :D
Stygg
I would use something like this as a layout for text.
Text was generated with Lorem Ipsum as could not think anythink to write, and I also took the liberation to fiddle with saturation and tint for the image to separate glass items better from the background and table.
I like everyone's take on this page layout challenge!
That was inspired, theinonen, to adjust the image before playing with the layout.
Okay, this is what I did. Because the picture is so hard geometric, I thought I'd keep with the spirit by using Avant Garde as the typeface, different weights, and then tucking the text in to fit with the composition in the image.
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Hey, a very Happy 2014 to everyone.
Gary
This time of the year, I've gone for a tempting sale/offer.
So, I'll let the Xperts tell me what I should or should not have done?
What works, or does not?
Or is it OK?!
Good GOD, Rik! Did you leave a few pixels blank?!
Okay; that was my first impression: clutter, overkill, unhappily organized.
But then I kept looking at your layout, Rik, moving my eye from one area of attention to another.
Without being snarky, I think you've created a successful advertisement that is ugly.
I think you and everyone else that went for this little assignment did a very imaginative job of it, having only a photo and the video, and your talents and experience, to create something that communicates something larger than the picture.
And by the way, "ugly" isn't necessarily bad when it comes to selling something. One of the basic rules to get attention in the market is to not do what everyone else is doing. This is called "clutter awareness" and when everyone is shouting, you whisper the message, and vice-versa.
It worked for Dr. Pepper and Apple. Actually, they didn't advertise product worth so much as product difference, almost being more important than the way the things worked or tasted.
-g
If I may step in here, I hope you fellas don't mind but Rik's ad brought to mind what I like to call the " I'm paying for the space I'm going to use it all" syndrome. Gary you have given us basically a carte blanche and allowed us creative freedom but in the real world of dealing with advertisement clients that is not often the case. I look at Rik's ad and I imagine a client wanting to emphasize a 40% off Sale and the Free delivery. I can hear the "Make this big and bold" and "Include all of this text"
Rik your ad is not bad but it could be better, first the name of the business is getting lost with the Huge sale and 40% off second the image of the glass is becoming secondary behind the text and not doing it's job of attracting the viewers attention. Third the rotated text is rotated too much and it becomes hard to read and adds to the cluttered look that Gary Mentioned.
I've taken the ad (I hope you don't mind Rik) and made a few changes.
1. I did a little photo editing and used a extra layer. The bottom layer I sharpened a bit and the top layer I darkened and blurred a bit then I used the eraser tool to erase out the glass work on the top layer so you get the effect of the glasswork having just a bit of extra sparkle and it pops out a bit more. This helps grab the viewers attention.
2. I moved the business name down to the bottom and made it nice and big (Note there was nothing wrong with the logo you created Rik I just used the one that I had already to save my self a bit of time) and spaced out the huge sale text and 40% off sticker to give a less cluttered feel
3. The bulleted list. Clients often love bulleted lists and they will try to cram as much in them as they can. However I will if I can encourage a client to limit a list to just the most important items for example in your list figurines could encompass a whole range of items with one list entry and by adding and lots more at the end of the list you are telling the viewer that they can get even more by visiting/contacting your client.
Last but not least the rotated text is rotated too much. By rotating it less it stll stands out but it's easier to read and it gently helps guide the eye to the business name address and contact info
@angelize—
It's an improvement.
But this whole exercise was to get you all thinking about page layout, and unofficially, there is no "right" or "wrong" with these trial images and such.
Rik created more than an ad. Step back for a moment: he created controversy! You took issue with the design and worked on it some more.
So we have chemistry and collaboration going on. This is excellent!
Where else do you get this sort of back and forth in real life?
For me, they're all clients who want every inch of print space used, as you mentioned, Frances.
So you make lemons out of lemonade, and important lesson both you and Rik have graphically demonstrated.
It's all good, see?
Actually, when Life hands you lemons, you ask for the salt and the tequila.
:)
-g
I think that style and on-page density is impacted by the publishing destination and its readership. At least for the first go-'rounds with a client.
Conde Nast in their Travel and Epicurious magazines, which I can envision bottles of gleeful stuff hanging out in, claim a 50-50 male/female subscription ratio. This is doubtful to me. But even taking their numbers at face value, a good design should fit both the publication type and the readership demographics.
The product photo we are given to use is a rather glam shot. How does the reader demographics and intended publication dictate the design concept given the product image?
If I had a client who wanted a heavy ad page going into either of these publications, I might do some arguing, er persuasion. In the end it's their call and whether I tilted my initial design towards sparse/heavy, they write the check. I have done ads and other design work where I was less happy with the result than I would have been going a different
I like the salt and tequila bit...
I think Conde Nast publications seem geared toward women, but I think men, too, can appreciate sheer beauty for its own sake, and there might be a lot of guys who read and look at Conde Nast pubs but won't tell their buds at the pool hall.
I deliberate gave up a glam shot for this exercise. I think those of us who do this for a living would find a beauty image a nice break from snow tires and cottage industry chachke.
And yes, what one would do to fit this image into a pub absolutely dictates the layout and use of fonts. But I thought I'd give the process a rest for the sake of pure(er) Creativity here.
:)
-g
Hey, next year I think "Typography" will be a necessary chapter in the Page Layout series.
I found this list online and tried just a little to get creative typographically with it.
Anyone want to take a crack at doing it better? With fonts? With negative space? With geometry?
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My Best,
Gary
An attempt to improve the Love Rules Image but I don't think I succeeded, I think I made it look "trashy" :o
Stygg
Trashy? Not at ALL, stygg.
I believe you gave the sentiments justice with your artistic treatment and it was very pleasing to see and read.
Happy New Year 'coss the pond, stygg!
My Best,
Gary
I like the use of that font "Russel Write" and "Bouton Cursive"! :) It's very weird to see your own handwriting executed by someone else!
Burning off some nervous energy awaiting the birth of a grandson...
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Nice one Mike, that would look nice in a anniversary card. Happy New Year to you Mike and your awaited grandchild :)
Stygg
Cheers Gary, hope you didn't mind the slight alteration to your Cursive text. :D Got the idea of the Russel Write text after downloading all the Font Education PDF's from their site and read the lot. Lot of good stuff in them, which I hope to absolve so looking forward to when you do some tuts. on typography, it's a great subject. Happy New Year to you and Barbara.
Stygg
@stygg—
It's all good, I'm proud that a talented individual (you, IOW!) sought one of my fonts to complete a challenge, and Happy 2014!
@Mike— Congratulations to you and your son and the family, I like what you did but it looks a little "dense" to me at a first glance, I've seen much better typography work you've done, and I'd love to see a second go when you're not so busy/preoccupied (because you do Great Things), and Happy 2014!
Go here!
-g
Hah...less dense than the challenge piece ;)
But yup. I forced connections between the lines of statements to connect descenders/ascenders. Here it is with the line spacing a little more opened, background knocked back a bit. And a second quickie for your enjoyment.
Mikey
(no birth yet...)
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I really, truly appreciate the second one, Mike, thanks...it shows off much more of your visual problem-solving gift.
Question: in your mind's eye, you interpret the headline as "Love is a living being, and these are its rules"; the apostrophe you added makes the headline ambiguous. It could be "These are the rules of the creature named 'love' ", or "These are the rules for love, to achieve love".
Sorry! Far too many decades working under a Copy editor! :)
As I originally posted it, "Love Rules", there is a similar ambiguity that I like more than with the apostrophe.
"Love rules" can mean "These are the rules for keeping love alive, these are the rules when practicing love", or "Love conquers all, love truly "rules", man".
Hey, I'm bored and uninspired today, like many. :)
I've got to look again at out Tropical Getaway calendar on the fridge. It's 21 Centigrade here and a half a foot of snow covering a half inch of ice outdoors.
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My B-b-b-best,
Gary
I think there is dis-ambiguity with the apostrophe by making it possessive versus a passivity of "Love Rules" which I take as more of a "Hey Dude, Love Rocks," "Love is cool," or similar interpretations. And point in fact, the supporting statements are "rules for love." Er., that's how I take it anyway.
I tweaked some/most of the statements as well...And I have another version mostly done on a brick wall as graffiti.
Other than listening to tunes & bopping around on forums, it is a rather boring day round here in wait mode. Ezra will be our 2nd grandchild. The first is 16 yrs old now and from our oldest son. Ezra will be our youngest son's first child.
It's a balmy 38 degrees here. Nippy but manageable.
I just realized that talking about the weather, on New Year's Day or any other, is a sign of our age, or at least mine!
Next, I'll be talking about what I had for breakfast, how those damned kids cross my lawn to shortcut the neighborhood, how clothes and groceries used to be a fraction of today' prices, and how terrific the Senior's Meals are at Denny's.
Argh!
All you need is Love!
-g
I had eggs and leftover ham...and my first pair of Levi's was $4...My wife has been in grocery since she was 15. I hear about prices all the time. The year I started driving, I remember gas rising from $0.25/gallon to $0.30/gallon. I was incensed even though I use to fill my VW van for about $3.
Ah, I better get back to present reality...
I was reviewing my property tax statement and preparing for both biz's and our personal taxes. Now that is depressing. Thus far I haven't been able to figure out how to pay the tax man unless I earn my doggie beans. In my fantasy, I have no need for money. In my reality, I owe, I owe, so off to work I go...
Just teasing about working. I am taking today off.
You're not alone, Mike.
It's a verified statistic that 6 out of 7 dwarves are not Happy.
Bah-dah-bump,
Gary
I can commiserate about how to pay the bills and the rising cost of groceries. I've taken on a second job to help make ends meet.
When you called 38 degrees nippy my eyebrows shot up and then I remembered you are in the US and are talking Fahrenheit lol! I've put the left over ham and turkey in the freezer for now, it will help stretch the grocery budget through the January lean times.
Now back on topic ;)
Here is a go at the Love Rules from me. I decided to forgo the apostrophe :)
I like seeing the rules as a bulleted list, especially with the bullets you used, Frances.
Hey, when you're strapped for cash, it's against the law to scan and print large denominations, isn't it?
And I'm just asking the NSA to ring my doorbell, aren't I?
Only kidding, Agent Smith :) :) :)
Sincerely,
Jerry Colonna
I really like the hearts in the Love Rules, Frances. Nice touch. Like the pattern in the color block as well.
I think this latest exercise demonstrates that the simpler something is—this is "just" a list-type poster after all—the more difficult it can be to balance the info with the creative. I have found info graphics one of my biggest challenges to do. I have never done one that I am truly happy with and end up just glad to see it out the door.
And as Gary and I went on a little Beatles binge, when I first read through the list and read the Grow Old Together line, the lyrics of When I'm 64 began to climb up out of the recesses of the noggin. My wife and I once in a while sing riffs of that song to each other. We began when "64" seemed so far away. This year we celebrate our 40th anniversary. "64" is getting a lot closer.