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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
No,
I didn't make it personal,JA did
He did it by constantly complaining and whining about things that should have been implemented,not only this thread but the many he posted the last year(and even before under a different membername).
Anyway i use multiple tools for what i do and don't get hung-up by the things I'm missing out on.
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Boy
Could you please expand on this? What is complex and what is crappy? What is lacking in XWD that makes it non-professional?
Jumping into this conversation..
This is somewhat off-topic.
XWD does a fantastic job at allowing anyone to product a clean looking website with the design functionality that Xara provides - it is very impressive.
To achieve it's magic it generates HTML in a particular way, so that it reproduces the design layout correctly. While it does an impressive job it requires that it has control of the creation of assets and the generated HTMl is created in a particular way that does adhere to web standards but is not consistent with the coding practices of professional web designers such as JA and others. There's no point in going into detail further. As a generator XWD does not perform as HTML editor or site importer - that's not a criticism just a statement about functionality. Nor does it support common behaviour in professional designs such fluid layouts or variable size layouts that dynamically adapt to generated content (from a Content Management System or database)
In a professional studio environment, web designers expect complete freedom over how they design and how HTML is manipulated. This freedom is at a price - it requires knowledge of HTML behaviour and standards, browser inconsistencies and related web technologies besides pure HTML - this knowledge requires time and money to accrue and often the generation of more sophisticated web designs take some time to do and involve rather tedious programming.
In this professional studio environment XWD is totally unsuitable it does not have the flexibility and is unable to meet the day to day demands that a professional web designer faces - often manipulating pre-built designs that come from clients and need tweaking, etc.
So JA and his supporters are entirely correct about their criticism of XWD as professional design tool, but they are wrong to dismiss it so readily.
XWD is very much an enabler - it allows those without (or even with) HTML knowledge to produce websites very easily and with some design skill they will have a professional look and feel. Inevitably these sites tend to have a XWD feel about them- simply because they use the features that XWD supports.
In a professional sense, many XWD users charge clients for sites produced with XWD and their clients are very happy with them. These aren't the same kind of professional sites that JA might produce, nor are they the same clients that would be attracted to JA.
JA and other professional web designers can command good budgets for their work because of the design flair they bring and the flexibility of the web designs they produce. In return for this clients are more demanding about the end result (perhaps in both design and functionality), so a tool like XWD is totally outclassed in this environment.
In the XWD world professional clients will have smaller budgets and expectations, so XWD fits in perfectly for them.
So I would say that XWD is indeed a professional tool but doesn't suit the environment of a high-end design studio, where page designs are done using photoshop or illustrator and then translated into html using dreamweaver (really hand-coded).
Recently I was at a design studio where comment was made that a client web campaign for US$ 30K+ had an inadequate budget, so I hope you can see that JA is entirely right about such an environment and XWD (before anyone gasps at the figure - you might be surprised at how much work these campaigns involve for corporates and the changes required mid-project).
XWD is a great enabler - it brings web design to the designer with little time to invest or interest in learning HTML. In the hands of a skilled designer it can produce great designs. In the hands of practitioner it can produce good usable work. In the hands of some it produces appalling designs that are pleasing only to a select few.
Professional tool? Yes it is, but at the low end of the industry. It will never compete with the likes of JA and an Adobe workflow, but then again there are a ton of clients out there who could never afford to engage JA - either financially or even perhaps artistically).
XWD brings web design to the masses and enables web professionals to pick up clients with low budgets. I have used XWD to produce some pages that a client would never have afforded if I had to spend much time on them with dreamweaver.
I hope that's helpful and I hope that professional web designers who sneer at what XWD does might like to cut it some slack as an enabler for those who don't work in professional design studios with good budgets..
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Maybe the new version doesn't have any new drawing tools, and it has some new web stuff, but it also has a ton of small enhancements to work flow and stuff that's not directly web related like the new Object gallery. I think we can fairly safely say that at least part of the reason the web stuff was enhanced was because it was readily available code that had already been written, so why not leverage that into your flagship product?
Is the real upset here that they've come out with yet another version with no drawing tools, or is it that they've called this version 5 but it doesn't have enough super awesome new functionality to justify being called 5 and should really be 4.5 or something?
Sometimes the major version number increases when there's no apparent outward change in functionality. What you're seeing there is that there has been a ton of work done behind the scenes to re-architect how the internals of the software work, so that making those new awesome features is possible.
As an end user, you don't see any change, but as the guys developing the software, the core of the whole code base is now fundamentally different, and needs to be a new major revision so that work on new features can progress while still keeping the old code base around for bug fixing and support of that version.
As much as people may not want to admit it (or even intend it), going on the internet to complain that some company that makes products and sells them hasn't met up with your own personal visions for what they should have done does come across as taking things personally. That's just the nature of online communications where we can read what you said but not the spirit in which you wrote it.
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Why does adobe always appear as the standard of things?
Because they started out in a new market and provided versions for schools
and now these students can only work with these standards?
But on the other hand we want open software for office tools and such and we booh to Microsoft?
And adobe laughs with every buck coming in.
And here we are complaining about some tools available in other programs.
(drawplus X3,realdraw,inkscape)
use them all and you still have a cheaper workflow than with adobe bloat.
In the end the person or company that makes what the client wants at a decent price wins(the client doesn't give a r** a** about how)
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
I should say that in general the Xtreme upgrade is dissappointing from a tools perspective and while there are some nice touches (as a long-time moaner about the layer handling it's great to see that get serious attention - didn't go far enough though) it's not a release I'm hugely excited about (I already have the web updates in XWD). So, on a tools front - could do much better.
I guess I'll upgrade when the trial expires though.
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Xara 5 tryout loads and runs fast to Windows 7 RC. Thing is W7 looks like a Fisher Price toy, Xara 5 looks the same as 3.2 and extra cash to upgrade, don't care about web design, is that what I pay for? Back to Xp and 3.2 to draw, never figured out that layers box thing, using Illustrator to long! If you want W7 and Xara 5 you are full steam ahead with Uncle Bill looking over your shoulder!
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
haakoo
Why does adobe always appear as the standard of things?
snip
In the end the person or company that makes what the client wants at a decent price wins(the client doesn't give a r** a** about how)
Now that Adobe is established, interoperability is really important with SOME clients, who may be providing assets in an Adobe format and may expect to receive assets in an adobe format. For these clients, they will expect you to conform or they will go elsewhere. In these situations not being able to use or produce Adobe assets will raise question marks over your suitability as a supplier.
Naturally for some clients where you are a one-stop-shop, they often don't care, as you say.
Paul
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Point taken Paul,as will I.
I think in a market economy where customers want something that looks great and is treated professionally even with a cheap tool at lower cost wins and if you play it like a pro the customer will return and gives you a good reference.
This means you are the pro and not the guy with the degree and the high cost programs that takes forever to learn,let alone work.
This might take some time but it may change their attitude,as they know now that there are other cheaper tools that make things as good as the adobe thing.
Oh BTW did you know that you can apply LE's to multiple objects on different layers and still have it be separate objects on separate layers.
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
A long time ago we learned Adobe stuff, PS 4, Ill 4, etc., then we worked with printers who still run old broken-down apple systems. With all that in our brains we follow COJ-church of jobs-a long line back to the intern days! To adobe we go, cmyk, oh who cares!
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
post #42 Paul
post #45 Odat
well said both
I remember professional animators who said similar sorts of things of Flash tweening, that some here say of XWD -and look where Flash is now :D
And the point about what has to be done re-coding etc is very pertinent
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pauland
I hope that's helpful
Your words clarify the rather heated debate about Xtreme's core functions (vector drawing) and its newer capabilities (bitmap editing and web site authoring) and their respective proponents. I start to understand the anger and frustration of the former who feel that the drawing functionality in Xtreme is seriously neglegted in favor of newer tools that they don't take very seriously/don't need in Xtreme.
Clearly, Xtreme is being developed in the direction of a Swiss army knife, by adding all sorts of smart functionality for professionals (and amateurs) active in various design areas and is, therefore, no longer a specialist's tool (much to the anger of the specialists).
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Boy
Clearly, Xtreme is being developed in the direction of a Swiss army knife, by adding all sorts of smart functionality for professionals (and amateurs).
That's a really good metaphor I like it. I remember as a kid having a swiss army knife and there was something on there for taking a stone out of a horses hoof, a little saw, a pair of tweazers, scissors, etc. etc.
But at the end of the day you get the knife because ... erm ... it's a knife. The other stuff is fun but you hardly ever use it because there are better tools for the job or as a boy you never have need to use them, see implement for taking stone out of horses hoof. It just looks cool to have swiss army knife, look what I can have!
For the last 4 / 5 years the blade had been looking more and more dull /blunt - i.e. main function of Xara Xtreme in the first place. And the knife sharpener is no where to be seen.
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Good point. Another word that one might apply is bloatware!
Tony
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
I'm rather bemused that Xara went to the trouble of developing XWD then replicates that functionality in Xtreme. I thought they'd decided to have programs that targetted the usage of the product and could make XWD the easy web design program and leave Xtreme as the designers tool. If Adobe had followed this path Photoshop and Illustrator would also include Dreamweaver. I'm rather dissappointed they've chosen this route and now XWD has become Xtreme Lite, or more realistically Xtreme is now XWD Plus. I guess for Xtreme owners with XWD it's a question of paying twice over for the equivalent functionality (XWD has already more than paid for itself, before this Xtreme release).
When using XWD I liked the fact I could do things in Xtreme and move stuff to XWD with ease and I think this is the model that Xara could have followed and left XWD as a web specialist tool, but have Xtreme as a design tool with great interoperability - then you would have dual revenue streams (will Xtreme owners continue to upgrade XWD at the next cycle?).
A nice touch would have been to have XWD detect that Xtreme is installed and add Xtreme's extra functionality to XWD - that would satisfy all-comers. Those that wanted web publishing only could buy XWD and get a web design tool. Those that wanted a design tool without web bells and whistles could use Xtreme and those that wanted extended web design capability could buy both and have XWD enhanced.
I can't say that I like this "buy XWD for the web, upgrade Xtreme for more of the same plus a bit more" tack.
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JokeArtist
But at the end of the day you get the knife because ... erm ... it's a knife. The other stuff is fun but you hardly ever use it because there are better tools for the job or as a boy you never have need to use them, see implement for taking stone out of horses hoof. It just looks cool to have swiss army knife, look what I can have!
Yes, I remember similar childhood experiences. However, the Swiss army knife is really used by the Swiss army: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Army_knife. An essential tool to them, I imagine, if only being able to open their cans and bottles in the field. ;):D
I agree with you that the knife (i.e., the core function) needs continued sharpening.
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pauland
I guess for Xtreme owners with XWD it's a question of paying twice over for the equivalent functionality (XWD has already more than paid for itself, before this Xtreme release).
Let me see, I bought Pro because it had flash capabilities.
The next version that flash capability was also in Xtreme.
I bought XWD5 and now I see the capability, and even more
capability, is in XX5(pro).
Am I happy about this? No.
But you get an extra discount if you have XXPro4+XWD5
But I think that also means I can`t give away XWD5 to
anyone. So I have to let go of that discount and just
give my nephew the extra XWD5 and xara3D6 (which I have 2 of now)
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pauland
I'm rather bemused that Xara went to the trouble of developing XWD then replicates that functionality in Xtreme.
I was very surprised when it was announced that Xtreme now contains XWD's functionality. A more modular approach, as you describe in your post, would have made more sense, both from marketing and user points of view: more revenues for Xara and more flexibility for the user.
I have come to really like XWD and now I am told that I can junk it (I also own XX4) if I want to move forward. That hurts a bit. Yes, there is some convenience in having all tools together in one app, but I had the same experience as you had: there was a certain charm in moving stuff from XWD to XX4 and back on those occasions that I needed to. Not everything was fully compatible/portable, but I imagined that would be rectified in future updates.
The biggest problem I have with XWD being joined with XX5, however, is the following: ever since the release of XWD I have been looking forward to updates to iron out wrinkles and upgrades to add new/improve functionality. But with the release of XX5 such hopes are pretty much gone (especially concerning the latter), because we'll have to wait for another year for a new release.
Or else XWD is upgraded before then and XX5 users feel left out. Or both are upgraded and people get upset because of having to upgrade (pay) too often or because they don't want to spend money on improved tools they don't need.
In my view XX5 should have been made more compatible with XWD but not include its tool set, unless through a mode of interoperability that you mention. And XWD should have been reinforced with additional Xtreme features (such as the bevel and contour tools).
There are other issues, such as the great difference in price between XX5 and XX5 Pro that those who primarily use Xtreme for web design will have to pay just to be able to have maximum use of the new Objects Gallery.
As far as I know, Xara did not poll preferences among its various client pools. It somehow doesn't add all up. Perhaps Xara employees or insiders have a more nuanced view of the recent developments :confused:
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
$54 (plus shipping) is not "nothing", but it's modest. It's another example of "nickle-and-dime-ing" customers to death for very incremental upgrades. Moreover, though, version 5 should have been free (download or shipping-only for disk) to Xtreme 4 Pro users who also jumped right in and bought Web Designer.
I am not opposed to WebDesigner's (now Xtreme's) approach to WYSIWYG webpage creation. In fact, I find it a refreshing and enjoyable departure from the plethora of conventional-wisdom page/site tools (Dreamweaver, et al).
Like no doubt most here, I am by far primarily centered toward vector illustration. Also like no doubt many here, I can code my own XHTML and CSS when I have to or want to; I dutifully pay my semi-annual "subscription fees" to Adobe for incremental tweaks; I do some fairly intensive ActionScript stuff and am even experimenting with PHP-based interaction between Dreamweaver and FileMaker Pro.
But sometimes you just don't need (or want) all that. So I strongly applaud Xara's emperor-has-no-clothes offering in this, and do not find it at all inappropriate for a vector drawing program. It's like the simplicity of a resurrected PageMill, updated to CSS/XHTML standards, conveniently and unobtrusively integrated as a feature set into a decent drawing program. I have no problem with it, and anticipate having use for it.
Although many Xara users know it could be enabled with XaReg, making page size-independency part of the standard interface is one of the most important "new" features, from a marketing perspective. I consider it a class act that that was relatively understated in the new feature list; compare to Illustrator CS4's over-ballyhooed, decades-ovedue, and awkwardly-interfaced allowance for multiple Artboards. It's an example of the kinds of straightforward powerful simplicity (elegance) that has been so long missing in the vector world (since the abandonment of Freehand) and that users are hungry for. Good job on that.
(I would, however, like to see elegance more devotedly pursued in other areas of Xtreme; otherwise, this program will become just another cluttered yet incomplete and unsatisfying hodge-podge.)
Alas, the most debilitating aspect of Xtreme remains its absense of a decent Bezier path tool! The Shape Editor and Pen need to be thoughtfully combined into one elegant tool that not only matches, but surpasses, the functionality of the main Bezier tools in other programs. As they presently are (even despite a couple of hopeful aspects of the Shape Editor) they are horribly primitive compared to long-standing norms.
I can't stress the importance of that enough. The Bezier drawing tool is the heart-and-soul of a vector illustration program. Xtreme will feel like an intriguing yet disappointingly awkward toy by users of the mainstream vector programs until that one thing gets addressed.
JET
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Perhaps we - those people who use forums and who discuss and disect and experiment - are not part of Magix's grand aims for the Xara suite.
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Given that there was web capability in Xtreme for almost a year before the advent of Web designer, enhancing Xtreme to have the same tools as Web Designer makes complete sense to me. The acid test comes when Web Designer, still in its embryonic stage of maturity as a piece of software, gets a shot in the arm to address its shortcomings in FTP and ease of menu creation. If that occurs, as one would hope, before the end of the year, you'd expect it to be a freebie and along the same lines a patch for Xtreme like so.
Not that I do anything very complex, so I might not notice a change anyway, but amid all this accusations of becoming "bloatware", has anyone seen any degradation in the performance of Xtreme. I haven't. In my book, bloatware is something that slows things down and not additional features that are proving to be "quite useful".
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
w00dy
. In my book, bloatware is something that slows things down and not additional features that are proving to be "quite useful".
That's very well said too
There have been changes that have interrupted my workflow, but not because of additional features, because of straight changes - eg the way fills now work, compared to xtreme 2......
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
I don't see the addition of web capabilities as "bloatware". To be honest, I haven't even noticed those features, don't use em, not interested and they don't intrude on my workspace, so fine - good luck and joy to those who do use em, no skin off my nose.
- But Xtreme is advertised as a design and illustration package, so don't be too hard, on those of us who have been looking for new vector tools, for some time now, and are a little disappointed again.
The Object gallery is very good, masks are interesting and there are some nice tweaks too, but for me, as an illustrator, there is not that much to get excited about.
Hey Jet, don't dis the shape editor tool man! I love it, I'm in love with it, I wish it would have my babies... well it does it for me anyway. Okay, it is a little idiosyncratic, but in a good way. I much prefer the way it works to other programs bezier tools.
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
I hope they don't mess with the shape editor, just getting to the point where I can say I control it ;):)
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
My input:
I have xtreme4+xwd. I have traditionally used MS Expression Web as a programming IDE, basically, and coded my sites from scratch, first using PaintshopPro, then xtreme for my graphics creation and web page mock ups.
When xwd came out, I took interest because of some of the "proof of concept" stuff I wanted to do. It's a great website prototyping tool, and now xtreme5pro adds to that, especially in the case of the object gallery (which is not yet in xwd and may never be or might be next month...). Multipage, multilayer docs with detail down to the object through a hierarchy is really going to help me plow through some things.
What I don't understand is the thought process that there must be only one way; that tools must be exclusively used; that just because one tool can get you to a certain place faster and cheaper (and without programming skill) than another at the expense of the code creation going on behind it - when it meets/exceeds the client's needs somehow makes it "less professional" confuses me.
I still code some things traditional html/css, I still create and slice graphics as needed, I still create/modify Joomla! templates, and now I have the options of using Xara for its web designing features where it fits the purpose.
Why does it have to be exclusionary? I also use Swishmax for Flash - because Xara products CAN produce Flash, does that mean that I should stop using Swishmax? Does Swishmax/Flash CS3 mean that Xara shouldn't include a rudimentary way to create simple animations within the same environment.
The right tool for the job...
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sponsi
Another thing: I can finally write the Polish "ł" character (right ALT + L) but.. now right ALT + C makes a copyright sign... WTF?
Yeah, I wish Xtreme would stop fiddling with the keyboard layout. See http://www.talkgraphics.com/showthread.php?t=32073
Quote:
who creates web pages directly in a gfx program and then exports it with stupid mouseover or something?
Someone without a basic understanding of how web page layout works. (There are quite a lot of these people, it turns out.)
Quote:
So the web tools are crap for me, useless stuff, really.
Well for producing finished sites, yeah. It's great for prototyping though.
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Can I chip in with another comment on why the website functions are useful to a 'pro'...
One of my clients wants landing pages within their site to link in to marketing campaigns; an advert has the URL going to a page. They want is 'designed' - to resemble the advert, rather than the rest of the website - but then with links to other pages in the site. They don't need SEO. They just want it quick! And that is how XWD and now XX5 helps me...
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Yes, I've done similar things though I don't think they ever consider SEO to be unimportant..
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
The big disappointment is not what they have done with the core of the app (The Drawing part) but how the lion's share of resources was expended elsewhere.
And i'm not convinced merging the web thing with the drawing app is a good idea either...
It may make financial sense....(You can sack a few people).
But what happens to the core parts of your code when there is twice as much "Plugged" into it??? I don't know (im no expert) but im guessing its going to be much harder to make fundamental changes (the kind we all want) when the app is being bloated with nonsense.
Keep it lean, Keep it mean...
This web thing is a diversion and a waste of time...
Someone said they are not trying to compete with the hardcore web apps... so why spend millions trying to bring your little league team up to scratch when they are never going to be seriously more than that.
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
morphonius_821
Someone said they are not trying to compete with the hardcore web apps... so why spend millions trying to bring your little league team up to scratch when they are never going to be seriously more than that.
Because it is profitable I guess. :cool:
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Of course... the money...
But i guess Im not thinking in terms of short term gains all the time...
What is the hook? :the fast render, real time, on screen UI, ease of use and quick powerful UI
The once potential customers have bitten the hook... it can also do web stuff....
Is their hook that much bigger than the competition that they can let their guard right the way down...? (They appear reasonably confident).
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
I think that John's honesty should put an end to these pointless debates and complaints.
Xara is in business to survive.
It's future is not in the hands of Talkgraphics forum members nor in the hands of vector-philes.
If left to the vector community, Xara would already be dead.
I personally would also love more vector tools like everyone else but if Xara did produce some for XX5 this would be more a favour than sound business sense.
Once they make a good profit, I am sure we will see more vector.
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
In all politeness and not wanting to offend anyone, I don't think the debates are pointless and the complaints are, for the most part, perfectly reasonable. Xtreme is a design and illustration program. Designers have had it pretty good for some time, but illustrators have not. Sure there have been lots of little and incremental improvements, often helping productivity, but not a lot to shout about as far as pure illustration goes.
O.K. Xara does not owe us anything and I think most here have made it clear that we understand that Xara have to make a profit and so must prioritise their time and effort. That does not mean to say we do not have a right to voice our opinions or ask for what we want. Unless we are going to be limited, on these forums, to only praising Xaras products?
Sorry, it is a fact of life, you can't please everybody and that means those who don't get what they want will, almost certainly, complain. Just as others have a right to give opposing views.
As long as we are all polite, what's the problem?
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
All you need to do is look at the Gallery and see what everyone is using Xara for ... ok there might be some mixed vector and raster creations but the most of it is vector drawings.
Xara might be surviving by giving up on the core of their app and taking it in different directions but they've lost out of my upgrade money and will do so until i have some new tools to use. Productivity improvement are no worth my money.
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
I'm not terribly familiar with the other illustration applications, as I came here from Paint Shop Pro with a need for something more capable for creating web graphics, logos, type, etc. Xtreme made my ability to create SO much more than I could hope for with PaintShopPro. I got better results (much better) with a small percentage of the time spent to create - which made me able to design more options for the client to choose from of a higher quality in a shorter period of time.
I have messed around with Microsoft's new Expression Design program, tried out a trial of illustrator, watched a lot of videos for the creation process and don't really know what I'm missing, I guess :)
Maybe this is better for another thread or you can lead this horse to water, but what additional tools would you add to XaraXtreme? I'm not being sarchastic, or funny, I really want to know, because I'm learning. I had a huge leap in understanding and ability in going from PSP to Xtreme, so I'm very open to things that will help me get my thoughts on the screen better.
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Re: XX5 - Woooo! Another Let Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
slavelle
What additional tools would you add to XaraXtreme? I'm not being sarchastic, or funny, I really want to know, because I'm learning.
FLySOLO put up a link on another thread which is the sort of thing the drawing / vector community have me asking for for years from Xara ... check it out ... NEW VECTOR TOOLS
I know it's looks like simple stuff but it really does allow you to work a lot fast when doing vector stuff rather than having to do everything manually in the way that xara works at the moment.