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2 Attachment(s)
Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
Yes, they can be broken apart, Dave. Use the Arrange>Break Shapes command. Post your working Xara file as an attachment and let me look at it. Actually, I made a mistake and if you use Slice Shapes you don't have to break anything apart.
See me proof of feasibility document attached. Oh, my bad: use slice Shapes to cut the blend group with a shape on top.
Attachment 94826
My Best,
Gary
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
I can not reproduce your results. Yes changing the line to butt caps solved one of the problems but I have tried a BUNCH of times and cannot get it to come out correctly with a blended line. I am wondering if there is something different between the two products. I have XP&GD.
The closest I can come is multiple cutouts that can not be manipulated independently if the line is a blended line.
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
Same as you Dave I have DP7 and cannot use a blend to weave, fine with just a shape, also if you use use a letter extruded and try to weave a shape through it, it works but you have a lot of dragging to do on the extrusion to get the colours back right on the extrusion? For some reason or other the colours go out of line. Looks like I'll have to upgrade and use the eraser :D
Stygg
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
I don't know what's going on, but it could be a system thing, becaus, Dave, you're using windows 8, right?
I just went to P&GD (I usually run XGDP as you see in the tutorials), I'm in windows 7, and the steps I suggested do indeed produce a sliced line blend that I can then produce the weave effect with.
Promise. It could be the operating system and your program are in conflict.
-g
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
Think your right Gary about a system conflict, I'm still using Vista Home Premium, everybody complained about it but I've never had any trouble with it. I'll have to rob the piggy bank and upgrade to Pro8 and Windows 7, dont like Windows 8, it's ok for laptops and the like but not for my trusty Desktop :)
Stygg
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
Yep: I'm just thinking about what Windows—different versions—will and will not allow a program to do.
Xara is so fast to work with because it has proprietary video handling—it doesn't pass calls onto the system as other programs do.
Which makes it both very powerful and yet very weak, especially when Xara has to write a very mathematically complicated render to screen.
Submit a ticket for this is you care to, Stygg. Obviously, I can get the Slice operation to work; why can't everyone?
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
I've submitted a ticket to see if the tech. guys can shed some light on this problem Gary, will post their reply as soon as I get it.
Stygg
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
Thanks guys. I promise, I tried about every option going and it all worked fine unless the "vine" was a blend. A single line worked great.
Gare, what I saw/see with the Slice is that the line chopped the letter in half where it crossed the text object. I was not able to use it to produce the weave.
If helps, I have gotten some errors lately and a couple of times when I was trying to execute the Intersect, the system just hung and I had to close it down.
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
@Stygg—
You're having fun and you're experimenting, both worthwhile passtimes.
I just want our membership to get thinking about the uses of blends; tutorial to follow.
@Dave—
Nice use of your new techniques to make an avatar. Suggestion? It might be less "busy" without the state flag superimposed on top of the D and C. There's only so much room in an avatar, which means you need to be a good judge about every pixel that appears in the final piece.
-g
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gare
@Dave—
Nice use of your new techniques to make an avatar. Suggestion? It might be less "busy" without the state flag superimposed on top of the D and C. There's only so much room in an avatar, which means you need to be a good judge about every pixel that appears in the final piece.
-g
I agree with what you are saying. I made a minor tweet that I think helps that a little though. By reducing the size of the flag a little, removing some of the transparency, and putting a small black border around the flag I think it is a little more distinctive and comes across a little crisper. The whole technique of passing the flag through the intertwined letters was something that came to me the other day and I just had to try it and "expose" it to the world.
As always, your comments and suggestions are welcomed. You have become my mentor.
Now I am off to make those ice cream treats "glow" better!!
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
Just an observation...This thread is currently hard to follow; from Image retouching, Interleaving vines to neon ice cream and avatars, all under the Xara Xone heading. It will be very difficult search/research later.
:confused:
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Re: Interweaving vines with 3D text
everybody has made the common error of forgetting that the vine would casts a shadow on the lettering
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Re: Interweaving vines with 3D text
You are right Frank,
However, the shadow of the vine (snake) is more difficult than it would appear, because if you use a shadow on the over part of the vine, you get a chopped up shadow, and if you use a shadow on the back vine, it does not cast the shadow on the front part. HMM!
Perhaps someone has an easier way, but I tried it the long way around and used the shadow on the back vine(snake) and then tried to add a similar shadow on the front part.
Attachment 94886
Did this work?
Rats! I just thought of a better way! Perhaps if I had added a shadow to both it would have filled in the gaps?
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fred C
Just an observation...This thread is currently hard to follow; from Image retouching, Interleaving vines to neon ice cream and avatars, all under the Xara Xone heading. It will be very difficult search/research later.
:confused:
I agree with Fred here, Gary perhaps could you or Barbara have a look at splitting this thread into several (one for each topic) and moving them into the Xara graphics chat forum?
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
Am I missing something here?
My thread says "Interweaving vines with Text". Am I not correct in saying that this is now a separate thread from Image retouching, and has been for quite a while?
And the intro of the Neon Ice cream was just a sneak preview of next months tutorial.
And a comment on someone's Avatar on any thread should not be out of line.
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
Don't get defensive...I didn't say anything about being "out of line".
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
Sorry Fred. Please forgive me, I did not mean to offend you.
I'm just a little unsure of how to respond to comments made on a thread. Sort of feel like I am treading on egg shells.
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
Quote:
Originally Posted by
angelize
I agree with Fred here, Gary perhaps could you or Barbara have a look at splitting this thread into several (one for each topic) and moving them into the Xara graphics chat forum?
I agree with both Francis and Fred, it will be difficult to search/research all these topics later.
Stygg
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BeanPole
Sorry Fred. Please forgive me, I did not mean to offend you...
No apology needed; on offense taken.
Best Regards,
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
@ Everyone—
I will try to get with Barbara today and split these threads off.
"Forum housekeeping" to me is a lot less important than participation, and I think we've had some of the best group learning and communicating right here than we've had here or elsewhere on tg in a long time, so I myself am forgiving of the Sin of Untidiness at the moment.
It's on My To Do List, as we as writing a new tutorial next month, and answering thread questions, and occasionally having an Analog Life , too.
I'd think I can speak for the Administrator that the Xara Xone area might need an additional Moderator if traffic keeps up like this. Volunteers, especially those who have no idea how thankless the unpaid position is, can send me a PM.
@BeanPole and all—
Think of Common Courtesy first, last, and in-between when posting on tg. There's an old saying pertaining to email: "Read twice, send once." none of us should feel as though we're tippy-toeing around; neither should we feel as though brusqueness is an accepted part of getting a message across.
Please let me point out that this board is international and some of us have adopted English as a second language. Nuances and subtleties of this language might not be equally mastered by all. A good rule is that if you think something in your post might be misinterpreted, give it a second go before posting.
TalkGraphics looked and behaved like a Demilitarized Zone not that many years ago. It's a far more constructive place today, and I'd like to keep the static off the forum for one reason:
The chest-thumping, egotistical B.S. gets in the way of the learning process, the main thing most of us are here for.
I'm here to teach and to learn.
I'd like to mostly restrict my time online in this pursuit.
Deal?
;)
My Best,
gary
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
Just to add to all the confusion with interweaving a 3D weave and driving the tech. guys mad because I can't do an intersect shapes with a blend and before you split the posts up, I found I could do this though funnily enough?
Posted the xar.file :D
Stygg
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
@Gare - You are 100% right on.
I feel that I am the one that got things off target when I did the interweaving vines in your imaging tutorial thread. At first I thought I was doing the same thing as your tutorial only with multiple bitmap objects instead of photos.
HOWEVER, your comments about the exchange and learning are exactly why I have been participating. I am a retired guy who was looking for ways to improve my artistic and graphic skills and my participation over the past few weeks has, IMHO, helped me to advance my skills. I will not pretend that they are on the level of some of the people here. But that is also another reason for participating (learning from others).
In these past few weeks, I have for the first time used fractals (Thanks Frances and Stygg). I would probably never have used the Clone tool (not sure I was even aware that it was there (Thanks Gare). I had never used the eraser tool (Thanks Frances). I certainly had not played around with the Combine tools like I learned in these endeavors (Thanks to a bunch of you). And, I was not really aware of the power of converting lines and text to editable shapes and the doors that were opened by that move (again Thanks to Gare and several others). I feel I could go on with the list but Gare's point about the learning and sharing is EXACTLY what has inspired me lately.
I hope that we can continue in this direction and I look forward to where we are heading. I wish some other product forums I belong to were as helpful as this one and lets make sure our emphasis is on the learning and sharing.
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Re: Interweaving vines with 3D text
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dcahall
@ Big Frank: Only if you included shadows for the text :D
yeah that's correct, but since everybody used 3d text which indicates one or more light sources your vine too has to be shadowed unless you decide to skip realism
edit: lookat this post from Gary, he touched on shadows cast in his example
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Re: February 2013 Video Tutorial - Advanced Image Retouching
Quote:
Originally Posted by
stygg2003
Just to add to all the confusion with interweaving a 3D weave and driving the tech. guys mad because I can't do an intersect shapes with a blend and before you split the posts up, I found I could do this though funnily enough?
Posted the xar.file :D
Stygg
THANKS Stygg - That works. I need to play with the vine a little so that it is a more rounded appearance than the letter but the bottom line is that your approach did break the blended line so that you can get the weave effect.
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Re: Interweaving vines with 3D text
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Big Frank
yeah that's correct, but since everybody used 3d text which indicates one or more light sources your vine too has to be shadowed unless you decide to skip realism
edit:
lookat this post from Gary, he touched on shadows cast in his example
Agree, I think the big problem that we started wrestling with was that we could not get the blended line to break into parts properly.
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Re: Interweaving vines with 3D text
@Stygg & @Big Frank - Stygg, I used your technique (and found a way to use the 3D with the vine but not at the same extrusion as the text) and Big Frank, I had to do some messing around but got vine shadow included (not perfect but you get the picture).
Attachment 94905
Sorry, I lost the .xar file or I would have included it.
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Interweaving vines with 3D text
Dave you can draw the shadow for the vine your self, I used it on the vine here and just used the shadow tool for the G.
Stygg
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Re: Interweaving vines with 3D text
I'm all for learning and sharing what we have learned here on TG but My thoughts are that some of what has been discussed in this thread should have been discussed in the Xara Graphics Chat area specifically the interweaved vines and the neon glow stuff. The exchange of ideas that is happening here is great but we shouldn't neglect the rest of the forum :)
I think that tidyness doesn't have to be stiffling if it's done right. :) There is a wonderful energy here in the Xara Xone forum I'd like to see that energy grow into other parts of TG :)
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Re: Interweaving vines with 3D text
Quote:
Originally Posted by
stygg2003
Dave you can draw the shadow for the vine your self, I used it on the vine here and just used the shadow tool for the G.
Stygg
That is what I tried to do but did not take the time and do it as elegantly as you did. Boy, if I go back and add the leaves to the vine, this will turn into a REAL project. I think the most valuable thing of this entire endeavor was learning how to accomplish the weave (especially with the blended line).
BTW: When I applied the 3D to the vine, I set the extrusion depth to 1 and that is more what I was wanting the vine to look like.
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Re: Interweaving vines with 3D text
Let's hit Pause and back up for a second, because this vine lesson is doing exactly what it shouldn't be doing for most of our members here.
Rule #1 in good Art composition is to go from the general to the specific.
Huh?
You begin with an idea, you get a visual reference if you feel you need one (hint: beginners and many advanced artists do), then you rough out the idea, and then address specific issues.
The shadows are a specific part of the composition, they should come last, and I see some stumbling blocks at the beginning of this art process.
First, don't rush it. This forum will be here tomorrow, so don't get so anxious to post that you post something half-baked, okay?
Second, if you want the vine going in and out of 3D text, fine. But compose the text, make an interesting composition out of it. Make the characters rotate left and right and a little randomly as though someone had tossed them onto a table. Use an interesting font, too.
Then work on your vine. however, as Frank points out, you need to consider the source of light in the scene, and spend more than 2 seconds with the Shadow tool and consider yourself done. Shadows are a subordinate element of a composition, but that doesn't mean they're trivial.
Which means you give quality time to every facet of a composition and quit looking for a "quick fix" that will get you home in time for supper when you create Artwork. Does anyone have the foggiest idea how I and other accomplished artists and designers on TalkGraphics really sweat the details and fight the urge to post our "little child" before it's done?
Now, here's a "think outside of the box" approach to this vine thing. We have mounted something that has grown (pardon the pun) into a very, very challenging, visually complex work of art. How do you calculate the shadows so they're accurate? How do you rotate the letters so they lie on the same plane as one another?
You use a reference, specifically a real-life one.
Got a dollar store or a similar budget five and dime near you? Terrific. Get into the car with $2 and go there.
Buy:
• Those refrigerator magnets that are letters of the alphabet.
• A bag of pipe cleaners which will be the stand-in for a vine. They call them "twistys" or something similarly inaccurate these days because no one smokes a pipe except Popeye in 2013 I guess.
Take your kid's desk lamp, go into the kitchen and set up your scene. Play with the light until the shadows are interesting. Then either develop a good memory and go back to your PC and use Xara to recreate your reference scene, or take a snapshot of your work with your mobile phone, import the jpeg to Xara, lock the photo, and go to the design work.
I couldn't be more serious about making a reference photo or scene. How do you think DaVinci worked? Norman Rockwell? How about Big Frank?
Just because you have a computer doesn't invalidate methods artists have been using since the first cave drawings!
Here are two reference pictures. don't simply copy them because then you're copying my reference pictures and not going through your own personal creative process. Just look at how the light falls on the objects; the sun is supposed to be coming into the scene at about 8am.
If you can get something like this look, then you've taken a big first step into:
1. The process. If you don't have a process, you're going to be lost as you imagine more and more detailed pieces.
2. Making stuff that's truly "3D" and not just extruded text. These reference pictures look as thought the text is IN the scene, not simply o top of the scene. Why? Because from the very beginning, the scene was composed to look dimensional. Then the vine, then the shadows, it's all calculated, it's all planeed, it's all part of an individual's process for making art.
I think that's a worthwhile thing to strive for in your work.
Give it a go, and take your time.
Attachment 94914
My Best,
Gary
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Re: Interweaving vines with 3D text
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Re: Interweaving vines with 3D text
@Gare - My first reaction to your post was OUCH. I felt like I was trying to do The Limbo under a bar that was only 1 foot off the ground. Then I calmed down, had a cup of coffee, and decided that I had to try again.
I know you will not like the text because I just used extruded text instead of the full 3D with text facing in different directions. I know it is more artistic than mine, but I went with what pleased me.
I did take my time, in fact, I worked on this for several hours. I have leaned a lot during this process and feel that this image is far superior to where I started. While in the dental office earlier today, there was a pole outside the window that had vines wrapped around it. I tried to study that instead of going to the Dollar Store :D
I wanted the vine to look fairly real (think about my gardening days when I was young) and wanted a somewhat realistic color and I wanted it to decrease in size as it moved from left to right. I also wanted the leaves to be farther apart and smaller as it progressed from start to end.
I learned a lot. When I used the intersect there were little gaps created (about one or two pixels) and stretching did not get the job done so I had to take a copy of the text, draw some shapes and clip the text to develop pieces to cover up the flaws. I also took another copy and used a copy of the original line for the vine to clip the text to create appropriate shapes to use as shadows over the text for the vine. Then as I places each leaf, I adjusted the gradient fill to match the direction of the shadow. Hoping these steps are following the suggestions from you and Big Frank.
I hope this final one comes closer to matching what you were trying to point out. I also had to throw in a copy with a different background to kind of kick off the St. Patrick's theme for the month of March.
All of that said, I will welcome the feedback. My real goal here is not to be the artist that some of you guys are but rather to continue to develop my skills and learn how to use the tool better.
Attachment 94927Attachment 94928
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Re: Interweaving vines with 3D text
Nice work Dave, here's my attempt and an exercise I did in dragging the shapes you cannot break in DPG7. I've found that, for some reason or another, if you intersect an O in the text the shape breaks but on a solid letter, N say, if you want to weave then you have to drag the shape with the shape tool. Hope I've made myself clear. :D
Stygg
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Re: Interweaving vines with 3D text
Stygg and Dave,
You guys really rise to a challenge. nice work despite some of what might be software limitations.
Now, not to dampen anyone's spirits, because you've put serious brainpower and an investment of time into this: is the finished illustration expressing a visual idea?
I ask this because all too often I see feats of technical prowess done with computer graphics, but without an idea driving it.
Remember: you begin with a concept. And if you aren't sure you have one, you don't.
P.S.-It might not be apparent, but I'm trying to teach Art here, no discourage anyone.
-g
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Re: Interweaving vines with 3D text
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gare
Stygg and Dave,
You guys really rise to a challenge. nice work despite some of what might be software limitations.
Now, not to dampen anyone's spirits, because you've put serious brainpower and an investment of time into this: is the finished illustration expressing a visual idea?
I ask this because all too often I see feats of technical prowess done with computer graphics, but without an idea driving it.
Remember: you begin with a concept. And if you aren't sure you have one, you don't.
P.S.-It might not be apparent, but I'm trying to teach Art here, no discourage anyone.
-g
I understand and agree completely. I also understand and agree completely with your prior post. At the time you put it there I was more caught up in the "how to" than the "what" and got kind of frustrated. Even though I feel I am weak artistically, struggling with the "how to" escalates the frustration. One of the great things to me in this forum is the sharing that goes on from both the artistic and technical aspects. I promise I will be more patient in the future.
I did have a vision in my head (might not necessarily be the right one but I did have one). Growing up in a rural area, we had vines growing in a lot of places (like trellises, fences, around poles, and such. My vision (which seemed to be a minor one) was that the vines are wrapped around the object (in this case the text but could have been a pole) much more tightly than what others have done. As an example, looking at the left side of the D, I tried to illustrate that wrap. Funny thing was that the vines I saw wrapped around that pole while I was in the dentist office was what I was envisioning.
That aside, my other quest here is to learn how to achieve my vision (even if it is tainted). Once I got past some of the technical hurdles it was then easier to concentrate of things like coloring the leaves, creating and positioning the shadows, and achieving my vision.
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Re: Interweaving vines with 3D text
Quote:
Originally Posted by
stygg2003
Nice work Dave, here's my attempt and an exercise I did in dragging the shapes you cannot break in DPG7. I've found that, for some reason or another, if you intersect an O in the text the shape breaks but on a solid letter, N say, if you want to weave then you have to drag the shape with the shape tool. Hope I've made myself clear. :D
Stygg
One of the things I learned during this exercise (after I slowed down and thought through some things :D) was to make some copies of stuff before I got too far into the task. As an example, I made multiple copies of the text, copies of the base line for the vine, and copies of the vine. That way I could use some copies when doing the intersect operations. I did intersections of the text and vine both with the vine in front of the text and with the vine behind the text. I used some of those for the shapes of the shadow of the vine and some for to cover up the vine with text. I did find that sometimes when you did the "intersect" with the text there was a buffer of a pixel or two on the edges. Sometimes I could not get the object to cover the text cleanly so I cam up with another method. I took a copy of the text by itself and drew a shape on top of it a little larger than what I thought I actually needed. Then when I did the "intersect" I had a piece that would fit smoothly over the text/vine that I could then use to hide the vine a little more smoothly.
One last thing, I too had times when I could not break the shapes. Every time that happened it turned out to be that I had not converted the text or vine to an editable shape first.
Hope this helps you.
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2 Attachment(s)
Re: Interweaving vines with 3D text
I did a different take on the intertwined vine text. I put the letters in a vertical arrangement and the vine is growing up through them. I wound up with a kind of cartoony contrast with the crisp vector vine and the extruded text and I decided I kind of liked that.
I used the eraser tool a lot on this one. I think it's great to have other methods but if you have the eraser tool it just seems to be so simple and easy. I've attached my .xar file for anyone who would like to take it apart for learning purposes.
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Re: Interweaving vines with 3D text
I think everyone should look at your file if only for a good, solid design idea, Frances.
The "atmosphere" in your composition is a little contrary, however, it works.
In other words, the theme of Spring is open and outdoorsy, yet the lettering is casting a soft shadow on what appears to be a wall, ostensibly indoors.
That said, though, it works! It hold my eye and invites me.
I'd like to see more emotionally evocative pieces posted here after we learn a Xara technique. Dave has explained previously where he's coming from and it's a delight to see him expressing things graphically.
-g
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Re: Interweaving vines with 3D text
@Gare - Thanks for that comment. I was not sure that I was letting anyone know that I was getting pretty close to my vision which was mildly out of sync with the rest of you.
@Angelize - I really like the flavor of multiple vines and the flowers. I had thought about the flowers but was not brave enough to try to go that far. As I look at your composition, I think that the addition of the off shoots is what really brings it into the "real world".
As Gare suggested, I am downloading your file and looking at it for those pieces that I would like to extend what I finally ended up with. Who knows, I might even come up with still another version.
Most important to me is the "growing" and "leaning" through out all of this. And one of the more important things for me is to explore other techniques rather than just looking at the screen sometimes and wondering "how the heck do I do that".
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Re: Interweaving vines with 3D text
That's the essence of it, Dave. I'll leave graphics gymnastics and "pyrotechniques" for the sake of showing off to others who have the talent, but right here is how to bring a good idea to life on a page.
-g