New Printer?

[joel]

I have found Epson printers not only to print great images but to be extremely reliable. I have several Epson 800 printers that have been going strong for almost 4 years. I've recently purchased a couple of 880s, they print amazing output for a $100 printer (after rebate). I also purchased an Epson 1280 for my photography, this one is quite spectacular in its output.

I am concerned about longevity with my photos, only time will tell. I must say that I haven't noticed loss of color after almost four years when the image is kept under glass and out of the sun. All dye based inks will fade with time. The newer printers, inks and papers should diminish those concerns.

To Deb: I don't think Epson makes much money on the printers...they rely on you buying their inks and papers. I have found that 150-200 ppi is sufficient for scanning. Set your printer to print at 1440, make sure microweave is on and high speed is off, and choose the correct media type.

Regards, Joel..

[This message was edited by Joel Schilling on August 23, 2001 at 05:47.]

[Erik Heyninck]

Whenever you go to a Museum of Fine Art, you will notice that ALL work on paper is kept in rooms with special, dimmed lighting and is kept under glass.

As a restorer (amongst other activities) of etchings, drawings and oil paintings, the first thing I always say to people when they come to collect their work is NEVER hang your works of art in the direct sunlight, never hang it on a wall that becomes cold and humid in winter.

No human skin, no work of art can withstand direct sunlight.

This said, I also do my tests in direct sunlight. Consider it New York: if you can survive there, you can survive anywhere.
Tests have to be worse than the worst normal conditions, but I would never try out watercolour in direct sunlight as it is of no use.

If I look at the slides and colour photographs I made some ten, and more years ago, I also see faded colours. Some brands of china ink turn brown, and bistre simply fades away. The protected part of jackets of real expensive art-books stays the same, but the unprotected back fades.

I think we simply have to accept the fact that this is unavoidable, and that we can try to slow down the fading, that's all.

As for the 2000P: Epson specifies that the guarantee is limited to behind glass and TL lighting.
I now have a HPDeskjet (recommended by the shop, and I didn't know any better) and the first photographs I printed nearly two years ago, and that are kept in similar conditions as my other, normal photographs, have not disturbingly altered. But I accept that, just like most work on paper, they cannot withstand the direct sunlight test.

[traceyp]

Its OK carrying out a fade test such as that done by Tad but is it really fair to condemn the inkjet industry on that basis when ANYTHING left out in the sun will fade in due course. Maybe Tad has seen colours fade in a day but anyone who puts a colour print out in the sun for ANY length of time is asking for trouble.

Sure you're going to find some idiots who'll do it (we've done it ourselves) but they'll learn that you just don't do that. Its not only prints that fade! What about all that faded furniture in the conservatory or elsewhere that is permanently in the sun? Here in the UK we're fairly lucky(??) in that we are highly unlikely to get the sun regularly experienced in the southern states. Nevertheless it is still enough to cause fading.

No! When we print in colour we always try and ensure they are at least on display in the shade. Anything else would be foolish in the extreme.

Incidentally Ross, we're hangin' on to the Epson 600 - we've no intention of getting rid of it. Fact is we don't sell ANYTHING. At present we've got three PCs networked in our home and we've got another two PCs we could hook up as well.

Oh, as a postscript to my earlier message, I should have said that we do NOT use Epson original cartridges, we use compatible cartridges. For the 600 they (Jet Tec and JR cartridges) work out (at least from our source) at about 3.99GBP for black and 5.99GBP colour - beats Epson prices hands down and are just as good. Epson 680 compatibles are somewhat more expensive but are available from Jet Tec.

See the following web site and look for the ILRS system for info.

http://www.jettec.co.uk

Tracey

[rheaton]

I did a brochure for someone just after Christmas last year. At the time, I was (and still am, a year later) considering buying a HP Color LaserJet 4500 for home. (Does an excellent job for a $2000 color laser.) I had been reading about the Epson problems with ink fading and decided to try a little experiment. I printed one copy on the HP 4500 I use at work and one copy on the brand new HP 1218 photoprinter that my sister got for her fiance for Christmas. Initially the Inkjet had a slight edge on the Laser as far as print quality. Then, I took the two copies and hung them about 8 inches below a fluorescent light. 8 months later, the InkJet is more faded than the Laser (of course), but still very acceptable. I would love to do an HP vs. Epson experiment like this.

I was very encouraged to hear Joel comment on the durability/reliability of his Epsons. After some of the things I read about them, this was always my reservation about them. (I own an 8 year old HP 1200 and I know that HPs are durable.) I do have one question though: When you replace the ink cartridges in the Epsons, are you also replacing the print head like with the HPs. I haven't researched them lately and wondered if they had changed their design. It makes the cartridges a little more expensive, but I've never had a print head fail and have always gotten very good oputput from it.

The scans in the example below are not as telling as I had hoped, but this might help some.

[philhendry]

Hi folks,

Well, after all your helpful replies, I think I have persuaded 'the management' that the grass may not actually be all that much greener on the other side of the fence, and that we should keep our 'old' Epson Stylus Colour 600. Better the devil you know, etc.

Actually, it has given us very good service, apart from the time we used a ream of rather (too cheap!) poor paper and the head got furred up with paper fibres, which left streaks on the paper (though that can hardly be blamed on the printer!)! Easily cured by cleaning the surface of the head, using a strip of soft tissue soaked in IPA looped under the head and gently rubbed back and forth.

Print quality is good, fade resistance seems no worse than with any other ink-based medium, as far as I can tell.

Many thanks,
Phil

Trust the computer industry to shorten 'Year 2000' to 'Y2K'. It was this sort of thinking that caused the problem in the first place.

[Eric]

Just a final thought...
AVOID INKJET CARTRIDGE REFILLS! I've done this many times and have had nothing but trouble, when you inject new ink into the cartridge you are also injecting air and goodness knows what else! the printhead has the tiniest outlet holes you can imagine and the smallest amount of dirt introduced means instant death [blocked nozzles] Like Tracey like you, I now use compatable cartridged from JET_TEC because the Epson [intellidge] cartridges are extortionately priced over here, £25 EACH! for B&W and Colour! thats more than half the price of the printer in the first place.
The one thing I like about HP printers is the fact that you get cartridges with new built-in printheads, as for fading, well, yes all pictures [and carpets, furniture, wallpaper, paint...] placed in direct sunlight will fade due to the UV rays, and pollution.

[jjkohler]

I use three printers on a regular basis. HP 4M LaserJet, HP 855C Inkjet and an Epson 1270 Inkjet.

I do most of my important output on the Epson 1270. It produces astonishingly good results when used with Epson ink cartridges and Epson heavy matte paper and premium quality glossy papers. It handles cut paper up to 13 x 19 inches allowing for full bleed proofing of 11 x 17 sheets. Also can use 13 inch roll paper for banners or panoramas. It also has the best paper handling I have ever seen. No jams or twists in two years.

The biggest drawback to the Epson is the cost of their paper and cartridges. I can get the color cartridges for about $24 and black for $22. The 1270 uses a five color color cartridge and is usually not available locally so ordering from the net is usually required. The black cartridges are available locally. Epson also get a premium price for their papers and anything other than US letter size has to be ordered from the net.

Use of papers other Epson's own produces color output ranging from good to unbelievablely bad. But I haven't found any as good as their own.

I have not experienced the excessive fading others have mentioned but most of my output gets framed and is used in the home or for proofs which don't hang around long anyway. I have had no complaints from clients yet.

The Epson 1270 has been replaced by the 1280 which allows full printing to edge of paper.

All in all I have been satisified with the Epson except for the cost of supplies.


I like my HP 855C but it has a tendency to pick up multiple sheets and cause jams. Output with HP Cartridges and Papers is really quite good but doesn't come up to the Epson. My gripe with HP is that it is almost impossible to talk to a real person if you need technical assistance with a problem. Figure $2.50 a minute on a 900 number and if you get cut off you have to start over. Yuck!

Incidently I have a new HP 7400C ScanJet which is very fast and scans of color photos directly to the Epson are hard to tell from the original.

Just my two cents worth.

John

[traceyp]

Eric

We had a try with a refill kit soon after getting our Epson 600 but pretty soon dropped the idea - it was an unmitigated disaster. We got no-where - so now we get proper compatible refill cartridges which have served us very well for many years now and we expect they will continue to do so for both the 680 and the 600. Much the cheaper - and better - option.

One thing everyone should remember when complaining about the cost of original cartridges is that manufacturers make very little on the sale of the printer. They make their money (or hope to) on the consummables - the papers and cartridges etc -hence the cost of originals.

In our opinion, everyone looking for a printer should look first at what printers they are interested in and then look to see what the running are likely to be, i.e. the cost of consummables and what consummables may be available apart from the cartridges.

Incidentally, I know that HP cartridges have a print head incorporated but as far as we can make out, the cost (in the UK) of even compatible HP cartridges (and most others) has been quite high -much higher than Epson compatibles - at least from our keeping up with consummable pricing for friends.

Tracey