How do you feel about the 365 Program?

[Acorn]

Thinking at the time that 365 was a marketing attempt to provide the company more revenue; and not necessarily to provide a better system, I struggled to commit to the 365 upgrade on its release but decided to take the leap of faith as having low expectations i could always go back to the previous version i had purchased.

I do not agree with 'variants' as a form or responsive design and in a recent customer survey undertaken, my prospective and existing clients said that responsive, interactive design was high on their agenda. Losing 2 existing clients with Xara Web Designer sites in 2016 purely down to this, and then losing a further 4 new contracts because of variants proved for me that assessment of working practices was essential.

Web Designer continues to be a very capable application for anyone wishing to administer their own website and who see it staying within a 70 page limit. I have found that above this I have to use external ftp solutions to cater for the maintenance of sites or split the site. I have developed sites with WordPress as alternatives for clients but I was not so impressed from a development perspective, because although it does provide a capable CMS and whos templates can be responsive, the actual design is in no way as versatile as Xara Web Designer and there is a substantial learning curve for the client. Currently I am training on Joomla to see if the CMS they provide is any better, on first install it would seem to be but time will tell.

In 2017 my decision is not yet made but it is highly unlikely that I will extend my 5 years with Xara Web Designer

This is a good summary of the strengths and weaknesses of the Xara approach.

Acorn

[slavelle]

Ok - I'm here to drop my few cents in the fountain that is this thread.

Said earlier (maybe Acorn, maybe someone else): Flip the Update Service to we can keep all updates in the year, forever.

For the 365 model, this is the most important thing to me. Reality is that each year, provided that the updates over the course of the year have been worthwhile, I will upgrade both of my licenses - and on and on. Whether on the 365 model or the year-to-year one, it's likely that the upgrade is going to have something in it that is worthwhile to my business.

We do website design and development. I use Joomla to realize our designs by building custom templates from Xara designs. I use Xara to export the pieces and parts and assemble them in the Joomla template-ing, using the Joomlart T3 framework. It's very efficient.

We rarely use Xara to produce an end-product website (though it happens here and again), but we provide mockups of the designs with it and having a somewhat living version (with hovers on menus and moving graphics or the occasional parallax demo), versus the static images, and sometimes just grey-box outlines that a lot of competitors use, gives us a definite advantage. It also makes it a lot easier to get from design into actual development when the client SEES what a slider looks like - that images will move in this section or that. Maybe not exactly like the final version, but a good representation. This lets them give the sign-off a lot faster than if we require them to use their imagination. If they were "creative minds" they might just be making their own websites!

Simple additions, like the Pixabay integration, add a TON to our productivity. Yeah, we could go to pixabay's website and get the images, copy them, paste them or download them or whatever, but being able to just click a number of colorful images into a layout quickly saves a pile of time for getting a design concept across quickly. This feature alone has saved us enough design/layout time in the past several months that the profit of that time compared to the pricing of the designs has probably covered the cost of the upgrade for both of us pretty readily. And the 365 model allowed me to have this enhancement without having to wait until spring to get it.

I don't like that the features will go away though, for many of the same reasons that folks are posting here. I think that my commitment to the year of updates should allow me to keep that year of updates if I opt not to continue to pay. If Xara wants my money next year, they should prove that THIS year was worth it.

The way they do that is with trust and production. When this whole 365 thing started, I pointed out how Cakewalk (producer of music software, Sonar, specifically) is handling their "subscription" (*if you will let me call it that). Every single month, they have a release of new features and bug fixes and documentation to go along with that release. It keeps their customers engaged. Are there unhappy clients there too? Of course - there will always be. But Cakewalk has typically come through on delivery of new stuff that they said that they would do. And they have been doing it now for at least 2 years straight.

Take a look at the ongoing list of updates that are done here: http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/SON...ts-New#2017.01

It's an impressive list to scroll down that page and see how many enhancements have happened. Scroll up from that point and you see what they currently have "in the oven". It doesn't hurt that they had a short period of "lifetime updates" as a bit of a combination of loyalty reward and cash grab, so I get updates from now until December of 2038 (at least).

To me, this method of keeping people informed of what's going on and doing it consistently is how Xara will win over the loyal users and pick up new ones. With Cakewalk, this isn't 3 new features once or twice - this is several new features EVERY month. And some of the features are significant. Some are things for the new folks, like templates and starting points, and simpler getting started menus and such (that the old guard complain about because they don't need them), but some are also deep features that people have wanted for a long time and bug fixes for things that have tormented people through older versions that are VERY welcome by the users who have been around for a while.

I suppose what I'm saying is that you have to look outside of just the graphics market. There are a lot of other areas where software is going down this same path and there is a lot to be learned about what works and what puts companies out of business.

Overall, I think that the 365 program is a good idea, so you can put me in the positive column. With a few tweaks, more updates, more communication, and a better "your updates stick" if you were around when they came out, this could be a very successful endeavor. Without these things, Xara could easily become "that obscure program that no one has ever heard of". I can tell you that in this area - North Metro Atlanta - not one single person I know has ever heard of Xara and when I bring it up, I have to defend it because it is unrecognized and immediately considered unprofessional, non-standard, a toy. When I show it off, lots of people think it's great, but it is not getting noticed. Period.

And - shameless plug: If anyone needs Joomla help - let me know. I was the first Certified Joomla Administrator in the United States as of October 2016, so I think I know a pretty decent amount about it and how to utilize Xara Designer Pro and Joomla together to get quality websites out with a ton of functionality.

[ernie-f]

I can tell you that in this area - North Metro Atlanta - not one single person I know has ever heard of Xara and when I bring it up, I have to defend it because it is unrecognized and immediately considered unprofessional, non-standard, a toy. When I show it off, lots of people think it's great, but it is not getting noticed. Period.

And - shameless plug: If anyone needs Joomla help - let me know. I was the first Certified Joomla Administrator in the United States as of October 2016, so I think I know a pretty decent amount about it and how to utilize Xara Designer Pro and Joomla together to get quality websites out with a ton of functionality.

Hi slavelle,

here the same. I think I'm the only, if not the only one in Germany, graphic designer and offset printer master who works with a non standard software. I had multiple requests to Xara/Magix about there sales policy and reputation on the graphic market. I don't got one answer. They stay in a corner to be, You call it, a toy. And when herein commes a grahic artist from Xara and call us all about to have fun and have no information about what will be the next step with Xara, thi is not a professinal behavior to us who use this program for our work. I say it in a other thread: not the annual fee is aproblem but the uncertainty where the journey goes. Clear answers from Xara or Magix could make decisions for me/us easier.

If I skip into Joomla I'll contact You.

Servus Ernie

[browj2]

@slavelle,

Good points. Magix needs to more work in the update and communications area. Magix and Xara now publish their updates since the 365 programs began, so there is hope.

However, the point about keeping the new features if you don't subscribe and your argument that you will renew just to receive future new features will not work.

The old system:

V12 = new features since V11
V13 = V12 plus new features since you purchased or last renewed
V14 = V13 plus new features since you purchased or last renewed
.....and so on.

The new system by theoretical version number( what I mean by this is a theoretical version number after each 365 day period):
V12 = new features since V11 plus an advance on new features
V13 = V12 plus new features since you purchased or last renewed plus an advance on new features
V14 = V13 plus new features since you purchased or last renewed plus an advance on new features
.....and so on.


Thus, what you got when you paid is what you have. If you don't like the new features, then don't renew.

When you purchase the first time, you are getting all of the features available at that date plus an advance on future new features over the course of the year which you can keep (if you don't have to reinstall) but for which you have not really paid. You properly get to keep them when you renew. That is the way it is.

If you could indefinitely keep any new features that came out before the renewal date, why would you renew? There is nothing to be gained by renewing except possibly getting unknown new features. If Xara were to change the system as you suggest, I am quite sure that all of the people who have complained here about not being able to keep the new features that they received during the year after the purchase/renewal, would now be the first ones to agree that there would be no reason to renew since there were no new features available that they didn't already have, but they would want a solemn promise from Xara that they would receive new features that they wanted and liked. And, they would want to see these new features and try them out before renewing, which would be impossible. And they would want to know when the features would come out. And then they would say that there is no point in renewing right away, but that it would be better to wait until the new features actually came out. I am sure that they would come up with other arguments for not renewing as well as the above.

The bottom line is, what you got when you paid, is what you have. Period. Anything else is a bonus.

What you and others are asking does not make good business sense.

John

[Acorn]

Given: A site built with a Xara version with preview / advance updates
And: Bug fixes to date
When: The update guarantee service lapses
And: Your version reverts to what you bought
Then: Site features may not be supported
And: Application will be as buggy as at purchase point
And: No downloads for on-line content are available
And: No search is possible for what you may have squirrelled away

Discuss.

Acorn

[Ron Duke]

These last three observations above, are very to-the-point.
I agree with them whole heartedly and. +1!

What you pay for you should be able to keep.

[Boy]

Indeed, great posts!

My first post in this tread was #22. I concluded it by saying, “So, my answer to Gary’s question is a shrug and a wait-and-see stance.”

Years ago, I decided not to be triggered anymore into a discussion about Xara’s communication and update policies. I had given up. This was after I realized that management is not really listening to and taking advantage of its customers’ feedback and input. It was and still is doing its own thing and not seeking council or cooperation with its customer base.

Many of us have raised this issue. Upon not being responded to, some have left, some keep on trying to be heard, some even rant, some justify the situation (“Xara is a small company so they don’t have the capacity to do this or that”), some just shut up (like me).

But now this thread is showing some really good observations and I want to speak out in support to my fellow Xara users.

To be sure: Most Xara employees who visit the forums seem very open but their communications are infrequent and clearly not part of a coherent company policy. Some posts or threads receive a prompt response, others are completely ignored. And anything in between.

Xara is a decent company and makes (for the most part) great software. Thank you! But perhaps the company is suffering from “Ivory-Tower Syndrome”, being holed up in Gaddesden Place over all these years, and finding it increasingly hard to level with its customers. When its leaders do communicate, like Kate Moir did in this thread, I’m often struck by its defensive nature and tone. It’s mostly in reaction to dissent.

We don’t often hear something like, “Hey guys, we hear you! Great idea! Your feedback and input help make this company and software what it is: Great. Thank you for that!”

To me, this [Cakewalk’s] method of keeping people informed of what's going on and doing it consistently is how Xara will win over the loyal users and pick up new ones.

Spot on.

… no information about what will be the next step with Xara, thi is not a professinal behavior to us who use this program for our work. I say it in a other thread: not the annual fee is aproblem but the uncertainty where the journey goes. Clear answers from Xara or Magix could make decisions for me/us easier.

In my view it’s also not professional behavior to those of us, like me, who use the program in a non-professional setting.

Given: A site built with a Xara version with preview / advance updates
And: Bug fixes to date
When: The update guarantee service lapses
And: Your version reverts to what you bought
Then: Site features may not be supported
And: Application will be as buggy as at purchase point
And: No downloads for on-line content are available
And: No search is possible for what you may have squirrelled away

With this ‘GAWATAAA,’ the effects of the current hybrid subscription/update service are perfectly summarized.

And what is its underlying message? “Sorry, but we’ll have to punish you if you don’t renew.” Instead of: “You know what exciting things we did last year, so renew and we’ll work hard to do even better this coming year!” So, Xara’s message is basically one of coercion rather than reward.

[roly]

Hi, I was just reading about Magix ( http://www.magix.com/ca/company/ ), then I read the Innovation link and then I went to Magix portals and went down to partners and as suggested tried to get to know Xara... Nothing, nothing, nothing about the company or technology or team, only what products are available. So perhaps this is why we get no responses from Xara. They must be "silent partners" so perhaps we are wasting our time voicing our opinions and wishes. They will do what they want, when they want and if we do not like it that is our problem. So perhaps in about 50 days, April 13, 2017 (for Xara Web Designer software users) we will see what they want to show and offer us. That will be decision time for many Xara users, and Xara will have to live with the consequences.

Ciao

Roly

[slavelle]

@browj2: I get what you are saying. I understand that the idea is that you buy the existing software and the extras are what you would have gotten NEXT year if you bought the software then, but had to wait. I really do "get" this.

I also get what is being stated by so many others, which is that if you develop things with the features that you got during that year and subsequently decide that you don't want to renew the following year, some features may not work in the designs you already made, which is bad because some of these things would break a design from being used - especially if it was stuff like website design features that got added. Would the project even load any more or would you get that "sorry, thjis project was built with a newer version of Xara and some features might not be available", which kind of equates to "sorry you will not be able to run that set of business cards for your client again that look just like the last version" or "woops - I know that your site USED to have this cool parallax effect on the page, but when you wanted that address change in the footer, well - I didn't renew my application, so I lost the ability to export your site the same way".

Maybe it would be better to actually look at this as a subscription instead of an early access thing. Like a magazine subscription, they don't come to your house and take away the newer issues you received (and read) because you didn't renew. To get that renewal, the company who makes the publication needs to show the value and you will keep subscribing. I see the same with Xara.

I know that this kind of flips the accounting on its head, turning things from "in arrears" to "forward billing", but for something like this, it makes sense for the end-user. Xara/Magix are who made the decision to change the way this stuff works, not the user base. Now the user base is telling Xara how they feel about it and the way I think people are hearing the message coming out from Xara at this point only proves the case that it "feels wrong". Xara is basically saying "you know all those fears you had about a subscription-like model, well, you were right to have them. I know we described how great this whole thing was going to be for you, but we are going to take your money now and then if you want to keep the functions that you learn and use over the next year, you will have to pay for them again if you want to keep them."

It just sounds bad. I know it's not really all that bad and as I said in my other post, I mostly view this methodology as positive and for those of us who are likely to keep going year-after-year, it flat-out doesn't really matter anyway, we will always have those new features.

That's all for now. I'm going to try to learn a few other things about Affinity Designer and see how I would accomplish the same in Xara Designer. AD looks pretty impressive, but I'm sure there is a certain amount of "oooh aahhh" about watching how the demos work and such. I tried the program out when it was in beta and I have to say that the video overviews made it look a lot more impressive than it felt "in use".

Enjoy the constructive and well-thought-out debate here, Xara. I'm sure there is something to learn.

[wizard509]

“Ivory-Tower Syndrome”

I like that term.