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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    UK
    Posts
    21,283

    Default Re: Just Release: Xara Designer Pro X11

    I guess vector brushes would be nice - but the complex ones would require so much resource to [screen]redraw that I think it would be impractical for most - the simple ones are not too difficult to trace if they are monochrome

    photoshop brushes do not respond the same way, and they are not in an object oriented workspace

    the complex brushes are bitmap in both creature house and microsoft expression, and drawplus as well

  2. #42

    Default Re: Just Release: Xara Designer Pro X11

    Quote Originally Posted by digitalphaser View Post
    But it does not help me. I rarely work with mixed documents. Alternatively, the vector or bitmap.
    For raster I have thousands of Photoshop brushes. In Xara, I would like to see the vector brushes.
    A huge disappointment.
    99% of what I do is print.

    I could care less whether the output is vector or bitmap--it all will be eventually rasterized at the RIP. My one concern is the resolution. It needs to be "automatically" controllable. Like effects resolution are able to be set at the application level, even better at a document resolution level. 192 dpi is good enough for "lower-end" digital print (including via DFEs on commercial digital presses) but it isn't good enough for higher-end printing. Especially if there is any enlargement.

    One can make a bitmap copy of any brush work and set the resolution during the bitmap copy process for final output in a copy of the file. That holds up just fine through PDF to higher-quality digital presses and Lino print work. It would be better if this step was not necessary.

    In regards to the above, I am not disappointed in the current state of how one moves to print with the new brushes. I do urge Xara to move forward with making the process less involved to go from drawing to high-quality print.

    Mike

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Placitas, New Mexico, USA
    Posts
    41,486

    Default Re: Just Release: Xara Designer Pro X11

    Yep, agree Mike. For print we need control over the resolution.

  4. #44

    Default Re: Just Release: Xara Designer Pro X11

    Quote Originally Posted by handrawn View Post
    the complex brushes are bitmap in both creature house and microsoft expression, and drawplus as well
    You're right. Photoshop brushes have a different purpose, and they do their job very well. But Xara is vector based program and I expect that I will get back vector. There are many programs that are able to draw with paint brushes. Many of the program's free or cost less than Xara.

    Serif is a bad example to follow. Although DrawPlus+PagePlus are now in many ways superior to Xara. When Serif implements a full export, I think that many programs were missing their users. While Serif programs are not proud title PRO.

  5. #45

    Default Re: Just Release: Xara Designer Pro X11

    Quote Originally Posted by mwenz View Post
    99% of what I do is print.
    I could care less whether the output is vector or bitmap--it all will be eventually rasterized at the RIP. My one concern is the resolution. It needs to be "automatically" controllable. Like effects resolution are able to be set at the application level, even better at a document resolution level. 192 dpi is good enough for "lower-end" digital print (including via DFEs on commercial digital presses) but it isn't good enough for higher-end printing. Especially if there is any enlargement.
    Yes, Mike. But it holds for disposable products.
    The fact that many customers wish to use the purchased CMYK AI(EPS) file in the future. That is, change the color, shapes, texts etc...
    What the user sees when open my vector file in AI or CD or DP or Insc or......?

    In such cases, I use 100% vector without complex gradients, no transparency, no effects and other rubbish. I do not work for myself. I'm doing for someone.

    It is the critical moment, why I believe that it is unethical to sell a web site made in Xara. Only the Xara's user can modify it.

  6. #46

    Default Re: Just Release: Xara Designer Pro X11

    Don't know what "But it holds for disposable products" means for certain.

    However, I cannot use AI brushes in XDP, PP, ID, QXP, PS, etc. Unlike PS brushes that can be utilized by applications other than PS, the same does not hold true of AI brushes. Why should I expect XDP brushes to work in AI?

    It is true that I can convert AI vector brushes that have been applied to art into vector shapes, but that also leaves the brushes unusable as is. I can manipulate these vector brushes outside of AI as vector objects, that is true. But as a brush, they are useless outside of AI.

    When I know I need to turn over drawings in AI format, I will do as much as I can in XDP but finish off in AI. Brushes would be one of those things I would finish off in AI. 99% of everything I do begins in XDP whether it will eventually be ported to AI or something else. Most times the assets I am making only need to end up in PDF or EPS format. In that case, it is wholly done in XDP.

    Source files that make up the assets--which I would include brushes, JavaScripts in the case of both AI and ID, etc., I have never turned over to a client. Everything gets converted to "flat" objects. So I personally don't care whether XDP brushes are vector or bitmap if they end up in an AI file I turn over. Heck, often enough there will be a flattened PS file in the AI file. I don't give them the original PSD along with brushes either.

    So like I mentioned, I care mainly about the resolution of the bitmaps in an exchange format or PDF.

    Mike

  7. #47

    Default Re: Just Release: Xara Designer Pro X11

    Quote Originally Posted by mwenz View Post
    Don't know what "But it holds for disposable products" means for certain...
    Under the disposable product I understand any file that will be printed once. In that case, I'll PDF(rarely EPS) file that is optimized for certain print.

    Of course, before I export my document, I convert all the lines to shapes. Always. Especially when I do not know how to use my file.
    Therefore, if I create a vector file and use a vector brush, I want to convert it into a vector shape. For me it's important.

  8. #48

    Default Re: Just Release: Xara Designer Pro X11

    I understand that you desire to keep vector vector. I do too whenever possible and especially if the asset is going to be further processed outside of XDP. But for a PDF? I could care less. Like I said, the RIP or other output device will at some point in the output process convert it to a bitmap. Whether it happens for the print PDF or downstream at the RIP, I don't care.

    Unfortunately, Xara products have a max resolution of the brushes set at 192 dpi. However, if you use the "Make bitmap copy" and set the resolution to whatever you need, that will indeed hit the PDF at that resolution or be limited in resolution to the PDF profile setting used. For instance, make a bitmap copy of a brush and set it to 600 dpi. Make sure the PDF profile will allow 600 dpi. Now check the PDF in Acrobat (if you have it). Alternately, open the PDF in XDP and check the resolution. It will be truly 600 dpi. It's a work-around in a sense. But it isn't onerous nor does it affect the final printed piece even on high-res output to film.

    Mike

  9. #49

    Default Re: Just Release: Xara Designer Pro X11

    Quote Originally Posted by mwenz View Post
    I understand that you desire to keep vector vector. I do too whenever possible and especially if the asset is going to be further processed outside of XDP. But for a PDF? I could care less. Like I said, the RIP or other output device will at some point in the output process convert it to a bitmap. Whether it happens for the print PDF or downstream at the RIP, I don't care.

    Unfortunately, Xara products have a max resolution of the brushes set at 192 dpi. However, if you use the "Make bitmap copy" and set the resolution to whatever you need, that will indeed hit the PDF at that resolution or be limited in resolution to the PDF profile setting used. For instance, make a bitmap copy of a brush and set it to 600 dpi. Make sure the PDF profile will allow 600 dpi. Now check the PDF in Acrobat (if you have it). Alternately, open the PDF in XDP and check the resolution. It will be truly 600 dpi. It's a work-around in a sense. But it isn't onerous nor does it affect the final printed piece even on high-res output to film.

    Mike
    No, I'm not talking about the print work. I'm talking about the exchange of files.

    A simple example. My client had a vector EPS file of map. He needed some changes. In addition the map was 20x20cm size. He wanted to print it a 2x2m. When I opened this a "vector" EPS, I saw a clipped bitmap. These are the brushes. I opened a file in AI, PS, XDP with the same result. Client initially was very upset when he learned that he will have to pay another 300€ for a new map.

  10. #50

    Default Re: Just Release: Xara Designer Pro X11

    Not certain what your example has to do with XDP.

    Other than the brushes and what are obviously bitmap effects, my XDP vector work hits a PDF (and EPS) as vector.

    If the map had been created with the idea it would be scaled and made properly, then there would not have been an issue. The same goes with any bitmap effects and the brushes in XDP.

    Exchange of files between applications is always problematic. I don't know where the map in your example came from. But if it was suppose to be scalable as vector, the client got ripped off and should attempt to get original files from whomever made it.

    Mike

 

 

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