Need a Logo!

[Mike Hennessey]

$2000-$4000 for a logo, wow, I never knew. The cost for a week of guided elk hunting just went up! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img]
Mike

[BobShrader]

I have been busy and unable to "lurk" on the Xara X forum the past few weeks. When I logged on today, this thread prompted a pet peeve of mine: the seemingly endless efforts of businesses seeking free labor.

As a just-retired college instructor, I recall the many times I received requests from companies in an industry making huge profits for student interns to work for no pay. Some of these firms filled positions that had been held by employees with college interns who were not paid (as long as they received course credit to meet U.S. government regulations). It was and still is a disgusting practice.

Artists and writers are creative people who should be compensated for their work if it is used for for-profit purposes. Even talented students who haven't entered the professional world should be paid for work created for commercial purposes. It doesn't matter whether or not they have learned about professional ethics. Business people who seek to acquire creative works without compensation to its authors still have a bit to learn about professional ethics themselves.

[Thatch]

Can't agree with you Bob. I think the intern system is a good one. As an employer I can't in right mind hire a person straight out of college that doesnt have any real world expearience. There is too much of a difference between class work and employed work for me to know they will produce. In that, it serves a student well to go out and both, see what the real world is like in thier chosen profession and to get that much needed expeariance to go into an interview with confidence.

European countries have stuck much closer to the apprentice system and they do quite well with it. In the US we teach people in an unreal campus setting and then dump them on the street to then go and get a job.... the intern system helps bridge that gap.

Oh, and just so you know, I pay my interns...below market of course, but thats what thier skill sets demand.

As for the original discussion of art work for free; illustration and design carries little value with the masses because everyone has a son, or a cousin or a friend who can "draw" and they think of it the same. Professionals know the value of GOOD design and will pay for it. If you have someone that wants you to do something for free, chances are they don't really know much about business or they wouldn't be asking such a thing.

J

[roman]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> European countries have stuck much closer to the apprentice system and they do quite well with it. In the US we teach people in an unreal campus setting and then dump them on the street to then go and get a job.... the intern system helps bridge that gap.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not usual in Europe as far as I know. Pragmatism - "the learning what is necessary" and also Behaviorism came from USA. We are still stuck in the Herbart walking encyclopaedia principles.

[gwpriester]

Agree and disagree.

Bob

I definitely agree with this in terms of people who want free work from professionals or talented non-professionals.

This often extends to companies that want "spec" presentations in which the carrot is dangled, if we like your designs, we'll pay you. One year when I was an art director for Young & Rubicam in Los Angeles, we did two spec campaigns, one for PSA (a now departed airline) and one for TOMY toys. We got both pieces of business. The price of the campaigns, produced at the agency expense, was in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. And at the expense of our paying clients whose creative teams were cranking out the spec presentation.

We lost both pieces of business within a year!

But in terms of experience and employment opportunities, being an intern with a good company goes a long way on the student resume.

This is especially true in advertising, my major. Students who interned at good agencies gained a tremendous amount of "real world" experience if all they did was sharpen pencils and run for coffee. Just being in the pressure cooker and seeing how the process works gives these students an edge on their competition. Especially if the intership comes in their third year, so they have one more year to apply some of what they learned on their senion projects.

Gary

Gary Priester

Moderator Person

<a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~garypriester">
Be it ever so humble...</a>