C4D8

[Erik Heyninck]

So Cinema 8 will be modular...

Interesting, but the way they give new customers incredible offers and seem to forget the others is not correct...and not realistic. Because who is going to buy a version of an app and start learning it when they know that the new version, for which they did spend their money in the first place, will be completely different?
The idea is ok, but I wonder whether it'll work...

[Erik Heyninck]

So Cinema 8 will be modular...

Interesting, but the way they give new customers incredible offers and seem to forget the others is not correct...and not realistic. Because who is going to buy a version of an app and start learning it when they know that the new version, for which they did spend their money in the first place, will be completely different?
The idea is ok, but I wonder whether it'll work...

Erik, what do you mean with "completely different"?

The XL bundle for example contains the following modules;

Cinema 4D R8, Advanced Render, Thinking Particles, Pyrocluster, Dynamics, Bodypaint 3D, Mocca and Netrender.

If I would buy the Cinema 4D R8 module, why would it be suddenly so different? I don't see any difference compared to the old situation, at least not what this module is concerned. I personally think it's a good idea, because why should people pay for Bodypaint if they never use it? Just look at Photoshop; why should I pay as a customer for the development costs of Imageready when I seldom use it?

[Gaussian]

Mmm, something wrong with this board? Suddenly I'm a guest [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

[s.winders]

Everyone gets the deals Erik [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]


You with ART can now upgrade to XL8 for the same price as you could to ART.You will have the basics and then you can add the other modules as you need them.I am in the process however of quizzing MAXON sales on what deal they can give me as I have Pyrocluster and BP3d,but I want the studio bundle which has dynamics,but I dont want BP3D,I dont want net render,I dont want Pyrocluster.I do however want the rest,and I also want the 35% off studio pricing if I can swing it,but we will have to see [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]


Stu.

[bjoernk]

I think I agree with Erik.
Maxon seems to do most things right, but those special offers are not very well thought out psychologically.
I have only had C4D for a few weeks, but already I feel a bit cheated because if I had waited with my purchase until now I would have saved >€500.
I bought the Adobe special which was valid until June 30. But then they extended that offer until July 31, and those that buy XL7 from now on will get XL8 for free!
Sure that's a good offer which will probably generate a lot of sale this coming week - but it does not feel good for us "original" Adobe/C4D customers [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]
Just like that Adobe offer didn't feel good for the old customers that had paid the full price...

[Erik Heyninck]

First thing is that it is now *the* moment to buy (I mean: a/IF you have the money, and b/ before 8 is ready), even if all sorts of older customers feel more or less betrayed. Me, personally probably not that much as upgrading to C4D8XL from Art costs less than to XL7 (difference of 16%VAT if I buy straight from Maxon) and I get Pyrocluster for free. Still: I did upgrade to Art7 some two months ago and there was no necessity for that as the upgrade price from Art6 is the same as from 7.

But the real reason of my post is the new attributes manager.
I quote Mark Simpson:
"Along with the new non modal windows, a huge amount of time and research has been put into the new Attributes Manager. This new window completely replaces all of the separate settings you previously had to enter for each object. This is one of the most significant changes since the new interface was introduced back in release 6."

I am a real beginner with Cinema, and it is not easy to find a good start as the manual and the tuts offer no overview. So I can well imagine that for any new user the following weeks/months (fall can mean november too!) with XL7, and then switching to 8 with a totally new central concept can be difficult. In their place, I would not be able to resist installing 7, only to find that with 8 I had to restart with something that asks for a "getting used to it" that even seasoned pro's don't under-estimate. (this is a fremish phrase translated in bad english, sorry).



[This message was edited by Erik Heyninck on July 24, 2002 at 10:55.]

[s.winders]

I already have Pyrocluster and paid all up 820 for it in my currency,but to get a good deal I am going to upgrade to the XL bundle,thing is it contains Pyrocluster,and you cant mx and match their bundles [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] So I end up with 2 copies of Pyrocluster,but then again the bundle has 30% off.


Stu.

[jens g.r. benthien]

Hi girls & guys,

I've already mentioned my opinion on this topic a few weeks ago - almost all of us have paid the full price for C4D, and now Maxon is slapping into our faces with their new pricing policy.

Result: I won't upgrade this year. No way. The reason is simple: I've thought about the purpose of the app for me, and all I need is modeling (I'm using only few modeling features in C4D because I'm using Rhino for most of my models), the texturing and rendering. That's it. Animations? Huh, only a few times a year. Radiosity? Almost never because of the slow processors on the market. So all I need is already included in version 7. Period.

And believe me: next year Maxon will offer another 'large step upgrade' from v7 to v9 as they did for v5 to v7 - this will save me the 'rental' costs for one year. Or maybe I'll select another product next year to render my scenes, who knows - the market delivers many new apps every month, and some of them are fantastic - with a 'full version' price tag that's lower than the C4D updgrade price.

I don't like the policies of the companies to poop out a new version every year, charging upgrade prices for only minor improvements. Do I purchase a new car every year? No, because this 15 year old monster still gets me from point a to point b. See what I mean?

I didn't even have the time to experience and experiment with all features of v7, so why should I run through the upgrade procedure now?

I'm using Ashlar DrawingBoard for 8 years now - they didn't offer an upgrade. This is a perfect CAD application for 2D, small on the HD with only 6MB, 20 times as fast as AutoCAD.

I'm still using Corel 7 PhotoPaint (the current version is 10) - an absolutely outdated version, but believe it or not, I can still do the same stuff with it as years ago. But because I know that thingie inside out, I can work very fast with it.

My recommendation: don't panic, don't throw away your money on a useless upgrade unless you have a paying customer for it so that the 'new features' will make sense and pay off the expenses. Show Maxon that they have made the wrong decision and let them 'deal with lemons' as we say. If only 50% of the current users of v7 will deny the upgrade we will be able to pull Maxon back onto the carpet to re-invent a fair and realistic pricing.

And last but not least: chances are high that the next release will be offered with 60% off because of lower prices in the 3D app industry due to a harsh competion in the market.

If worst comes to worst there will always be the excellent and FREE POVRay rendering app. OK, I have to admit that POVRay does have a cryptic command line, but now there are numerous graphical front ends on the market to manage POVRay with point and click. BTW, did you know that C4D v5 could export to POVRay as well? Guess why...

jens

jens g.r. benthien
designer
http://www.sacalobra.de

----------//--
If you don't know how to dream you'll never be a designer.
----------//--

[Erik Heyninck]

It feels good to read your post, Jens. It is morning here right now, and I did go to sleep yesterday evening with the idea/caution in my head: hey Erik, excitement is ok, but don't get hysterical. I'm not into anim, and seen the size vs. render times, I'll probably never be. (Imo 800x600 is a minimum size, and a decent print of postcard size on a desktop printer needs 1024x786. To render postcard size for offset print with caustics et all one needs a dual 2.5GB processor and 2GB RDRAM. Can't afford that!)
So I decided to cool down for the time being. I suppose that for people who want to do character modelling and animation etc it must indeed be exciting news.
Besides, you're right about one thing: upgrading from 6 or 7 has the same price tag, and this will be the same next year from 7 and 8. By then, I might be able to get a firmer grasp on modelling, texturing and lighting. There is so much beautiful work done with older apps...