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  1. #1

    Default Pen & Graphics Tablets + The Apps best suited for the various jobs involved.

    Hi Everybody - this is a topic thread that I hope will bring debate, discussion, insight, information, advice, help, learning and clarification and more - while keeping us all friends (no falling out please )

    For this 1st post to kick it off, I would like to explain where I am, my understanding etc - which is a little above clueless after the last two weeks of reading and watching tutorial videos etc. If I have got anything wrong, please correct my errors.

    Graphics tablets and pen tablets have many things in common, but for me differ because:
    1. Pen Tablets
      pen tablets allow a user to plug in via usb, a (normally) black coloured flat bedded piece of hardware, in a variety of sizes, that comes with either a wired or wireless (battery) pen shaped instrument, which has a nylon or other similar material nib, that when the nib is held onto the surface of the flat bed and moved, can be used within a graphic type of program (Corel Draw, Xara, Adobe Illustrator, Photoshop, Inkscape etc etc) to draw/paint/create, or a text based kind of program (MS Office) to write (hand writing that with recognition software can be turned into fonts) and which will appear / be output onto your desktop/Mac/laptop screen, with virtually no lag (based on your computer specs). In effect, you watch your screen and not your hand. Some pen tablets (higher spec ones) may also have key buttons that allow you when pressed to do any one of multiple preset tasks - like a keyboard shortcut - (open/close undo/redo), saving you having to reach for the keyboard etc.
    2. Graphics Tablets
      graphics tablets allow a user to plug in via usb, a (normally) black coloured flat bedded piece of hardware, in a variety of sizes, that comes with either a wired or wireless (battery) pen shaped instrument, which has a nylon or other similar material nib, that when the nib is held onto the surface of the flat bed and moved, can be used within a graphic type of program (Corel Draw, Xara, Adobe Illustrator, Photoshop, Inkscape etc etc) to draw/paint/create, or a text based kind of program (MS Office) to write (hand writing that with recognition software can be turned into fonts) and which will appear / be output BOTH onto THE TABLET SCREEN & your desktop/Mac/laptop screen at the same time, with virtually no lag (based on your computer specs). In effect, you watch your TABLET screen and your hand, the tablet screen becoming a 2nd screen / extension of your main screen. Some graphics tablets (higher spec ones) may also have key buttons that allow you when pressed to do any one of multiple preset tasks - like a keyboard shortcut - (open/close undo/redo), saving you having to reach for the keyboard etc.


    Having a screen and not having a screen appear to be the two main differences to me, between a pen and a graphics tablet. This is a pretty big difference, because in drawing and writing etc, we use hand to eye coordination, and so using a pen tablet would be like typing on a keyboard without looking. If you can, you should be ok. If you can't, open your wallet and get a graphics tablet (or typing lessons lol).

    But that's not all both of them are good for. The pen (or stylus or brush as you may call it depending on your use - but I'll keep with pen for ease of visual aid here, so as not to cause people like me any confusion), can be used to a large extent (depending on the pen you buy) as a part or full replacement of a mouse. When the pen is hovered above the flat bed, it controls the cursor on the screen, and by pressing the nib on the flat bed on drop down program menus for example, will open that menu, repeat for the sub-menu etc. So you can open/close files, select a font, use transparency - basically anything you would use a mouse and it's left/centre/right buttons for, because with most pens, along the side of them, are often a 'rocker' style switch which can be setup as a right click or any other often used action performed, just like a mouse. As I have heard and seen demonstrators show this, they say that using a pen and not a mouse, once you get used to it, is far more natural, comfortable and less likely to cause Repetitive Stress Injuries.

    There are a number of manufacturers making both kinds today, and up to now my conclusion is that you get what you pay for, with Wacom being at the top having spent many years developing them and owning many of the patents (stopping others from getting in the game unless they pay big patent license fees kind of thing). Recently, some of those patents have become available as well as other ways to approach how the flat bed and pen work together (it's all done with magnets like an Etch-a-Sketch lol).

    It isn't the easiest thing to find a good cross selection of the market today, because of the 'terms' used to describe them vary from graphics, to pen to drawing tablet and more as wannabe's and lookalikes coin new names to make you think they are, but they aren't, or where one companies drawing tablet looks and reads to be the same type as another's graphics tablet. So it's easy to become a little lost and stop looking or searching for them all, and just say to hell with it, focus on Wacom. But even then, if you're looking on Amazon for example, the 'model' names can be confusing to get some info from the Wacom site, as they may be offering some recently refurbished models that no longer exist on the Wacom site, and you're not sure if the Bamboo model on your screen is the same as the Bamboo model on the Wacom site, because now it looks more like an Intuos ?????

    Here's a link to get you going http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphic...#Manufacturers

    The finish to the flat bed is also quite variable through reading and listening. Some are glassy/glossy, some have a waxy finish, some seem a little rough to feel like paper but most people say this last type wears down the nibs a lot quicker, while others say this happens to begin but if used regularly, you wear down the rough feeling so it becomes smooth. Reviews, opinions and recommendations can only take you so far, because what you want to achieve with this hardware is probably not going to be the same as the person's opinion/review/recommendation you're reading or listening to!!!

    So you need to do a lot of digging, reading, watching, listening. I heard/read one owner after another for a particular Wacom model complain about a terrible usb cable connection that was very poor quality. The tablet itself was not at fault, just the cable and yet Wacom were failing to fix this issue leaving unhappy customers with unusable tablets because the cable was broken, after being told by Wacom service not to keep pulling the cable in and out (this model I believe was one bought for it's portability). Other customers were making their own grommets to push into the tablet connection port to try and save the cable connector from breaking. And yet, the other side of the coin has customers praising Wacoms service as being faultless.

    Owners of other companies tablets have made videos to help you know their highs and lows, to know if you can live with them, should you be on a tight budget.

    You also have to look at the technical specs for the number of pressure points for example. Not quite sure what the different combinations mean yet - slower/more lag, less lines show, less thinness to thickness ???? Resolution, active area, colour, brightness, viewing angle etc - all need consideration.

    There's also masses of different pens that come with 2 and 3 side buttons, some of which due to position get on some peoples nerves as well as shape and size, masses of different nibs that vary in use and material which can change their lifespan (in combination with the tablet screen finish). Some tablet/pen combinations also offer more than just pressure sensitivity, but buying one that gives you more options doesn't automatically mean you can use them, based on the program you want to work in!!

    There's a lot of info required and details to be gone into & digested here, especially if on a budget. I've heard users say, if it's your 1st tablet, get a small basic one to try out and if you like it, move up to a bigger one. Oh yeh, I've got so much money to burn lol.

    I'll leave the tablets alone for now. See what feedback comes.

    Moving onto just as important an issue - programs.

    Most of the tutorial videos out there I've seen are using PS. There are some Xara ones, but not many. Thanks to handrawn for the below info (which may be why there are not that many):

    FROM FREEHAND:
    xara does not support the tilt and pitch features of the upper end wacoms, it just supports basic pressure sensitivity; I do not currently sketch in xara because I think there are far better programs for this - but I do colour work and for this I find xara's 'soft group' feature invaluable as it enables me to link objects together preserving their layer structure and still move them around independently of everything else

    On a side note and all the forum members responses to the latest release of Xara Pro http://www.talkgraphics.com/showthre...o-X10-Released, the tablet market is growing as more people see their usefulness. So besides not improving the features many devout users/members here need, people are not going to feel very confident to buy Xara when the resources and tutorials they need for using them with Xara are almost non-existent. This to me is crazy since these tablets are producing VECTOR images !!!!!! Ok, rant over, sorry. Where was I?


    Oh yes, graphic programs, tutorials on using them with their new tablet (mostly Adobe based), Xara restricts what other programs offer that after you paid more to get the extra options are useless in Xara, having to maybe use 3 or 4 programs to complete a creation (many people sketch on paper, scan into PS, import the PS file into say AI, then finish off perhaps in Xara. Again, this all depends on your style of work, what you are creating, and so on. But it pays to be aware before you buy and find you bought the wrong one !!

    Ok, I need a breather. I think I've managed to paint a picture of where my understanding is. To sum up;

    some of the problems I face in not understanding the technical info - what matters,
    which tablet/pen combination is for what kind of art,
    which programs allow you to do what within them OR which programs stop you from doing what with them,
    does the size of the tablet mean if smaller, you reduce how much of a drawing/picture you can work on at any one time (meaning constant zoom in and out to check),
    are the hotkeys that come with some great & useful - or a nuisance and you always use the keyboard instead,
    is a 2 switch or 3 switch pen better (or each has their advantages),
    do pc hardware specs affect lag

    More to come as the topic develops.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Pen & Graphics Tablets + The Apps best suited for the various jobs involved.

    Info from iamtheblues (Bob) - thanks

    On the subject of tablets & Xara, there is a solution called Inkling, by Wacom.
    Basically it allows one to draw on paper and import the result into a graphics program as a .jpg, .png, .svg or .pdf file. So, it does both raster and vector and also supports layers.
    I'm hoping Santa will bring me one in a couple of weeks, so I'll report back again then.
    Bob.
    http://inkling.wacom.eu/?/en/what_is...in_three_steps
    Last edited by puw; 08 December 2014 at 05:55 PM. Reason: added link

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Pen & Graphics Tablets + The Apps best suited for the various jobs involved.

    as I said elsewhere [for clarification] 'pitch' is not really a wacom term - the wacom features are 'tilt', 'bearing' and 'rotation' of the pen

    whether you need a wacom at all and what sort will depend on how you draw [or intend drawing]
    -------------------------------
    Nothing lasts forever...

  4. #4

    Default Re: Pen & Graphics Tablets + The Apps best suited for the various jobs involved.

    Wow, that's a good link to clarify the terms. Thanks

    http://vectips.com/tips/wacom-settings-in-illustrator/

  5. #5

    Default Re: Pen & Graphics Tablets + The Apps best suited for the various jobs involved.

    Ok, please can someone help clarify the size factor. My logic is saying the smaller the 'work surface', the less you can work on or you have to draw smaller drawings to get it all in.

    What I mean by that is what I often see referred to as the "active" surface - the part of the whole that is usable either by the pen or if also a touch surface by fingers - these 2 areas I see differ in size slightly. If the active surface (or area) is bigger, does that mean you see more?

    Now this is how things get complicated, in trying to be really clear.

    Ok, let's take a Wacom Intuos Pro Pen and Touch Large Tablet (PTH851) and a Wacom Intuos Pro Pen and Touch Medium Tablet (PTH651). These are not the "2nd extended screen" type of tablet. These are where you watch your PC screen and not your hand.

    So, what is the result of having the large over the medium in this example? If I buy the 'large', will I see more of the drawing on my screen, or am I going to see everything on the screen the same, regardless of tablet size, as visually my screen determines how much I can see (taking 100% zoom in both instances)? So does it come down to the physical size of the drawing I can draw. On a large, I can draw a bigger character, or more background, or more details without zooming in or out to keep checking? Or can I draw the same amount on the medium, I just need to draw less with my shoulder and more with my wrist action?

    I read that bigger active surfaces mean they allow a more natural 'from the shoulder' style of drawing, but then leave a large footprint on your desk, not so easy/comfortable to hold. Smaller active surfaces mean they are more manageable to hold (and carry around with you), but more restrictive in the flow/style of drawing.

    Likewise, if looking to buy a Wacom Cintiq 13HD Interactive Pen Display (DTK1300) or a Wacom CINTIQ 22HD Pen Display (DTK2200), aside from the massive price difference, am I going to be able to draw more and see more of what I am drawing on the 22HD?

    -----------------

    On another subject, because I am looking at various sources from which to buy & various models, I have seen a Wacom Intous 4 which has side zoom sliders which look a good idea. Then I do not see them on later models - were they a bad idea?

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Pen & Graphics Tablets + The Apps best suited for the various jobs involved.

    Some times bigger is not better. Depends on how you use the tablet as I tend to treat the tablet as paper and if you're drawing a lot of quick lines your wrist and arm tires quickly if it is a large screen. So if you draw on A4 paper your normal sketch size for that would be somewhere between a half and a third of the white area of the A4 sheet. So you might want a small to medium Intuos and not a large size saving a load of cash at the same time. Water/oil artist don't use paper the same way as graphic/product artist do so if you do water colours you tend not to turn the paper around to draw you leave the artboard still to draw what they view. Over the last few of years using a tablets and trying out a few at work from Inklings up to Cintiq 22 I found that around the A4 size is about as large as I want. I still can't justify the amount of money that Wacom want so I use the iPad for both raster and vector sketches, notes for my diary and now it nearly has all the integration of a Wacom with the apps that Adobe now has. Great tool and it surfs the web and takes picture of the landscapes that I want to draw later.
    Design is thinking made visual.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Pen & Graphics Tablets + The Apps best suited for the various jobs involved.

    Albacore, thanks for the reply. Can I just check please if I fully understand what you mean, in general terms?

    If you work on A3 - get a large
    If you work on A4 - get a medium
    If you work on A5 - get a small

    I do it this way to just generalise the categories, and let's say this is about drawing (like Anime/cartoon stuff). Then I have an idea of detail and size of drawing to paper size to tablet size.

    * I've noticed in the specs that the Wacom Intuos Pro Pen and Touch Large Tablet (PTH851) has an active surface size of A4 (give or take a bit)

    ------

    I'm still stumped with regards how much you can actually draw on each size of active surface - this may be my engineering brain talking lol. Can you help clarify this for me at all please? It's like if I wanted to draw a portrait, do I draw it the same size on each size of tablet? Or if I draw it large on a large, small on a small it still is the same on the screen?
    Last edited by puw; 09 December 2014 at 01:27 PM. Reason: * last line above ----

  8. #8

    Default Re: Pen & Graphics Tablets + The Apps best suited for the various jobs involved.

    Another question on a subject that seems backwards to me. Surely things begin with a sketch, which to me is a series of lines, which to me is best suited to a vector app. So why do people sketch in something like photoshop first? Then use a vector app. Does PS allow more freedom in sketching than an app like Xara when using a tablet??

  9. #9

    Default Re: Pen & Graphics Tablets + The Apps best suited for the various jobs involved.

    I keep seeing in video tutorials, small right angle markers that I don't know if they act as a paper size or as to where the active surface area extends to.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Wacom Intuos 5.jpg 
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ID:	105083

    What are they for please?

  10. #10

    Default Re: Pen & Graphics Tablets + The Apps best suited for the various jobs involved.

    Currently watching some Wacom tutorial videos, and one highlights the usability of those tablets with Touch included in different programs. It was interesting (though what I am watching is just over a year old) that of three programs shown, the usability varied a lot:

    Sketch Book Pro - Resize and move around, no rotation.
    PS - Resize, move around, rotation but with odd centers for how it rotates (also looked choppy/ laggy, not fluid).
    Corel Paint - Resize, move around, rotate - this used Touch the best, being smooth, fluid, maintained correct rotational centers and no visible lag.

    --------

    Another good tutorial explained the 6 axes of motion, and which Wacom tablets use some or all.

    1 - x
    2 - y
    3 - z (pressure)
    4 - Tilt
    5 - Bearing
    6 - Barrel Rotation (requires Art Pen)

    As an example, current Bamboo models have only the first 3.

 

 

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