Adobe vs Alternatives

[MarcT]

Indeed nice post Paul.

Just a word to say I'm a freelance illustrator and often have to work with clients that requires illustrator files.

In those situations I still find it much easier to work with Xara and translate to illustrator at the end.

I output much better results in less time, it all has to do with ergonomics.

This being said I use photoshop a lot. I'm using CS6 and will never "upgrade" to CC, especially since there is no new features that interest me. Xara can link any bitmap editor and that's a major asset for me.

Illustrator is a royal pain to work with, but has very useful features.
Corel also has a lot of feature but is less intuitive than xara in my opinion.

Marc

[MyCoalescen]

Like the last paragraph! Very good analogy. Also like the way you're thinking ahead, things change so rapidly in your line of career and you're aware of that. As an outsider I would suggest that if you are going to be solo then find the program you work best with but if you will be part of a team I suspect that Adobe will stay as the default, though there will be more latitude hopefully.

Ya Im trying to look ahead. I dont just want what is good enough for now but what will be the future. If adobe does fall out of favor in the next 1-3 years I would like to start using what ever may take its place now. Monopolies in business or politics are bad. Lack of competition is bad. I hope that there become 1-2 strong competitors to adobe. That way there are options, innovations, lower prices and seeking to win consumers.

Here is how I feel about CC crazy cloud.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPTc79Qw2g4
Yes you get upgrades that are nothing but flashy and not essential.

Adobes story is like a Greek tragedy at the point that the hero has reached their long sought victory and becomes proud. The bigger you are the farther you must fall to hit the ground.
After years in 80s they innovate with font types and improve the industry of print and design. The peasants take note of their courage and start to gain favor with them. Adobe is lifted to the title of lord of tools by some. In the 90s they continue to innovate and improve the landscape of digital software, fonts and universal file sharing. Adobe is lifted to the title of king of tools by their many proud peasants. They rise above their competitors and start absorbing them out one by one into their kingdom. Many of king adobes tools become renowned the through the world as photoshop, illustrator and indesign. The kingdom of Quark makes massive blunders thinking they are too big to fail as king of all things desk top publishing. They anger their peasants too much for too long and adobe sweeps in with indesign and starts a second desk stop publishing revolution. The peaple flee from quark as soon as they can and join forces with adobe. In 00's adobe joins forces with many smaller counties and dethrones others. It is during this time it proudly claims itself king of the world and in not just land but sea, air and outer space. They increase their prices as a tax upon their loyal followers who supported and cheered them on for 20 years. In the 10's is declared the professional standard of tools the world over. This is where our story really starts...

The fall of the rise of adobe
Adobe decides it is king of the world and imposes further taxes upon their peasants. The peasants reluctantly agree and hail them as king of the world and together crush all who oppose them united as ruler and subjects. This is when they impose cs 5.5 which is short for creative siblings first child and declare that to be the start of many 0.5 yearly upgrade new children to add more to the family and cancel upgrading more than 1 edition back. They announce their newest child crazy cloud and many peasants over time join in to feed it and pay tribute. Not long after Adobe king of the world declares it will be sacrificing its oldest living child creative sibling to crazy cloud as it is very hungry and needs to grow. The peasants shocked as Adobe starves its once proud oldest child and instead use all their resources to baby crazy cloud. Crazy cloud is very hungry and knows nothing else and gets a hunger that is never satisfied. The taxes increase and the peasants must now rent their tools from adobe to help raise the new child. Adobe promises the crazy cloud will be even greater than creative sibling ever could be but that it will take time and we must pay to help this. The peasants see adobe about to sacrifice creative sibling to crazy cloud and revolt in anger to rescue it. Adobe unbelieving any would still support it reluctantly allows it to survive but in the dungeon and only just enough to survive. All the while the other kingdoms of Quark, Corel, Xara, Microsoft and many more called the alternatives have been lying in wait for such an opportunity. They look and wonder how the peasants will deal with the new tax. They decide that if it works for adobe it will work for them but if not its a great chance to strike and either way they win. The peasants petition the king to free cs but the king refuses to go back on the decision that cc will be the future of the kingdom and the world. The peasants rally around the chained cs and many refuse to pay tribute to cc new tools and use their tried and true ones made by cs. Adobe gets annoyed by the lack of funds and promises reduced taxes the first year and that is enough for some but the majority are still refusing to pay. Adobe commands them to pay or be thrown in jail. The peasants start plotting against adobe to not pay cc, free cs and join forces with their long time enemies. The alternatives see the peasant unrest and plot adobes destruction but wait for the right time. They offer reduced taxes to and who with to join them.

The beginning of the fall of adobe
The some peasants flock to any other kingdom they can afford to live in. Adobe smirks and says they will never survive on such unprofessional tools and disregards them leaving knowing some would leave. As time passes when the peasants cs tools finally wear out and cc has grown to adulthood their is a decision to make. Creative Sibling dies an honorable death and many morn across all lands. The other kingdoms have grown from the disloyalty of adobes peasants and to a point joined forces against their common enemy adobe. All the while adobe sees its followers leave and instead of apologizing or making amends just increases the taxes to those who stayed to keep its taxes comming in full. They care not for the care of their people or that their enemies have grown some what. The peasants have to decide to join cc or the other kingdoms. Some reluctantly finally submit to adobe and join crazy cloud and are given golden shekels to forever wear in its service. The vast majority in the course of a few months threaten to abandon adobe.

O how the proud have fallen
Adobe will not tolerate such a thing and demands they stay and it fails. They desperately offer even better tools but the pleas fall on deaf ears. The peasants join forces with adobes enemies and welcome the paying of small tributes to new masters. The alternatives as they are known have been growing stronger as adobe was growing weaker and can now content in open combat with it. The added support of adobes many peasants enforce their armies to the strength any one of them can match and overthrow adobe. They alternatives squabble among themselves on who gets the killing blow while adobe shrivels to nothingness. shrinks. Adobe instead of being allowed to die in peace is split into equal pieces as a remembrance of what used to be the tyranny of adobe. The land and power of adobe is split fairly evenly by chance by all the alternatives as they grab for adobes land.The alternatives now all stronger and of near equal strength vow to never let one become so much stronger than the rest for so long or to try to over throw the world again. For many years the alternatives focus in different tool making and none completely rule any one tool. Many years later after they have forgotten their alliance they start to grab to be king of the world and the cycle starts again.

[pauland]

I'm disappointed by your last post, MyCoalescen. It seems to be about anger with Adobe, but is not at all rooted in any substance.

Adobe is the equivalent of the shipping container of the graphics world. The shipping container created a common transport medium that allowed efficient exchange of goods. Adobe is the oil of the graphics world enabling artistic designs to be transferred electronically and not just the designs, but the skillsets.

You want to learn now what will replace Adobe in the future. There is NOTHING on the horizon that is even close to replacing Adobe even in one small aspect of it's business. The design houses using Adobe software don't just use one program, they use many, and the interoperability of those programs is very important. Adobe's move to a subscription model has meant access to all of Adobe's software so that dependency and dominance is likely to increase not decrease.

If Adobe's move to a subscription model does hurt them, I've no doubt they'll reverse it at some stage.

As a student I don't think you have any idea of how influencial Adobe is in the professional design world. Adobe is a long way from falling and I'd suggest that you put your anger with them aside, because it will hurt your career path if you avoid Adobe or express this level of angst at an interview.

[MyCoalescen]

I'm disappointed by your last post, MyCoalescen. It seems to be about anger with Adobe, but is not at all rooted in any substance. Anger what anger? Did I call adobe names or shout at them? That seems a very defensive stance you have taken. Are you sure it was not you who were quickly offended? I tried to back up my greek tragedy scenario with facts of the past and facts about their current business model.

Adobe is the equivalent of the shipping container of the graphics world. The shipping container created a common transport medium that allowed efficient exchange of goods. Adobe is the oil of the graphics world enabling artistic designs to be transferred electronically and not just the designs, but the skillsets. I worked for ups for 6 years. If adobe is a "shipping container" you will realize a few things. What people ship in does not matter. Some use boxes, other wrapping paper, some wooden crates and others just slap a label on the item and send it as wheel. There are many viable shipping containers as there are viable creative software providers. You are talking about market standards. They do help in ways I know that but at the same time they limit potentially better things from emerging because they break that convention.

You want to learn now what will replace Adobe in the future. There is NOTHING on the horizon that is even close to replacing Adobe even in one small aspect of it's business. The design houses using Adobe software don't just use one program, they use many, and the interoperability of those programs is very important. Adobe's move to a subscription model has meant access to all of Adobe's software so that dependency and dominance is likely to increase not decrease. Im not looking 6 months down the road Im looking 5-10 years down the road which I implied a few times in my story. I know the companies use more than 1 program which is why I have stated before im looking for a company with multiple viable alternatives to adobe in graphic design.

If Adobe's move to a subscription model does hurt them, I've no doubt they'll reverse it at some stage.Exactly which is why if you read my posts you would realize Im waiting till i graduate in july to see if adobe makes this exact move. To see if it hurts them and how they react to it but that will take time to see possibly years as many are still satisfies with cs 5 or 6 and not ready to upgrade. Currently they have done little to try to calm those swearing they will leave and never come back of which I am not one. If adobe makes what I feel are sufficient changes there is no reason for me to consider leaving adobe.

As a student I don't think you have any idea of how influencial Adobe is in the professional design world. Adobe is a long way from falling and I'd suggest that you put your anger with them aside, because it will hurt your career path if you avoid Adobe or express this level of angst at an interview.Thank you for saying I am ignorant and completely trying to discredit my opinion. I have used adobe for 10 years which I feel is a fair amount of time even compared to those who have used it for 20-30 years. I realize all to well the grip adobe has on the market the more I have researched adobe, its competitors and the market. I have been spending hours each week researching adobe, its alternatives, the market and what people think about all of this. After 2 economics classes I understand adobe is a monopoly leveraging its market position and has since it bough macromedia which was a separate company when I first started studying graphic design. Monopolies are bad for everyone except the monopoly. I hope to see significant competition to adobe. This will lower market prices, spur innovation, increase efficiency and be good all around for the customers and economies. Im not saying I would refuse to use adobe products. I use them every day at college. I will use what ever my boss provides or requires. If I become my own boss or lets say was responsible for deciding the software of a business and that cost came out of my pay or effected it or a bonus or what not I would consider alternatives to adobe to possibly save money and consider the value of a perpetual license depending on the nature of the business.

My reply

[pauland]

Good luck.

[Gamerprinter]

I use GIMP personally for anything that I'd need to do with Adobe. I'd agree with Pauland regarding Adobe predomininance in the industry. If you work in the greater industry, you have to work with Adobe or work in another profession. Thankfully, I work in only a small corner of the graphics world and have no requirement to use Adobe anything, but then I'm not a cog in a larger machine. I serve customers as the only graphics professional for a given project start to finish. Nothing I do goes to other graphics houses to finish. If a customer comes to me with a graphics need, it's handled completely by me even to a printed copy. Since I have no interdependence with outside graphics houses, there is no need for me to be compatable with them - so I have no issues. But I'm rare in that regard, I think.

[MyCoalescen]

That is good to know that people can use gimp to achieve professional work. I will have to try the freewares as gimp, sketch and others. At worst Im out some time and computer space but for no cost its hard to go wrong with a free download.

What ever my boss or coworkers use is what I would be using. My stance purpose was directed to those in the position to decide what software they use and not have it be decided for them. Im more interested in the viability of the tool to get the job done instead of if it will be acceptable. Standards generally resisted and hard to change and a thing is not always better just because its the standard. Take the alphabet keyboard. Its layout came from type writers as a way of avoiding keys being pressed side by side often to avoid jams. That is not an issue any more but we kept the layout because of conventions and standards. There are actually more efficient layout but they have not become pushed hard to make them standard because the effort to get the whole to change for maybe a 10-20% increase would be quite hard to convince people especially since all would then have to relearn a new layout.

[Gamerprinter]

To me it's kind of like the expectation of using a Mac instead of PC for graphics - in most schools graphics is taught using a Mac, whereas in the real world the bulk of graphics are created on a PC. Mac still has predominance in the higher end of the industry, but as in all other areas of computer use, PCs dominate. I agree with you that using the best tool is the most important consideration for creating graphics, but when relying on issues of compatibility using standard software (such as Adobe products) is an expectation that you may need to comply with. I know of several graphics professionals such as myself that use Xara to accomplish most graphical needs, however, I know of no firm with a staff of graphics professionals that ever use Xara (or have even heard of the application.) So when working alone, Xara is a great tool, but when working with others it can be less compatible.

[MyCoalescen]

To me it's kind of like the expectation of using a Mac instead of PC for graphics - in most schools graphics is taught using a Mac, whereas in the real world the bulk of graphics are created on a PC. Mac still has predominance in the higher end of the industry, but as in all other areas of computer use, PCs dominate.

Agreed. 10 years ago when in high school we had no macs even for graphic and web design classes. My colleges have always had macs though. Macs I consider like a high end road bike I mean the 1,000$+ ones for racing. They are the best but hard for some to justify the price for casual users. For me macs are better than pc but not by enough to justify paying 50-100% more just to have it run a little smoother or be some what better on the user interface. Im willing to pay more for a good product but I must be able to justify the cost. My specialized bike I could easily justify the cost with high quality and it lasting. For me a Mac is better but not to the point to justify the cost as average computers are often replaced every 2-4 years. Adobe maybe the "king of software" but again dont think I can justify the cost of paying more over years for subscription model of CC. Why get cc when I can for lets say 1/4-1/2 the cost get a product 90% as good?

I do not like laptops or all in one computers for the same reason. Yes they are lighter, more portable and may look nicer but for me its not generally needed to pay more for a thing you cant upgrade and will burn out faster. Im not saying lap tops are bad. If you are a student or a professional that needs to be mobile you can justify the cost. If you have a laptop just because you can its not a good deal. All-in-one computers I cant find any reason to really justify paying more for a thing you cant upgrade. That is sort of like adobe. Why pay more for a thing with little to no options?

I may get a Mac but for now I will stick with a pc for 1/2 the cost that is actually better. Maybe in a few years if im doing well financially I can justify the privilege of a Mac but not now.

I want:
The best software
Compatible with the top soft wares
Cost I can justify

Corel, Xara and Serif all fit these requirements.

I have a specialized road bike and got it 4 years go when starting college. It cost me 800$ and is an entry level racing bike. Road bikes tend to cost more than mountain bikes. For me I use it almost every day getting to school and I can justify the cost as it is high quality and had no serious issues. Iv spent on repairs, parts and accessories about 240$ which is only 30% of the cost. It looks like it could last me many more years to come if I take care of it which I do. Many students have 100-200$ walmart mountain bikes. They are trash. I had a friend who used it every day like me and took care of it and it only lasted 1 year before it had serious issues that would cost more than the bike to fix. Quality vs quantity. I like quality but I must be able to justify the cost. I can justify the cost of a good product. Adobe I cant justify paying 2-4x as much for cc something that maybe only 10-20% better than other companies.

When I graduate I may not have a job lined up. If I dont I will need to get software to produce work until I get hired full time. I may start freelance and eventually in years be freelance from home. If im my own boss at some points I will not choose CC and maybe not even cs 6. CS6 has no future as fire works has no future as both are not going to be improved at all.

[theinonen]

Mac or PC does not really matter as the only real difference between them is the operating system. Macs are used for graphics work more of a historical reasons but nowdays there is no advantage to be had when using them instead of PC systems.


I am not big fan of OS X as it is just another UNIX for me and if I wanted to use something like that I would prefer using Irix instead. I would even go as far as to say there is more variety in software for Windows and people who use Macs usually use the same software anyway that is available for both systems. I see no reason to get Mac if there is no killer software that I could not run on Windows.