Welcome to TalkGraphics.com
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    New York, NY, USA
    Posts
    171

    Default

    Hi. Some of you may remember me. I used to post more often (I still lurk). In the last few years, my work has moved me further away from web/graphic design and more into film/video effects.

    The main app I use is Adobe After Effects, and unfortunately I've never been able to get it to import Xara files. So I was forced to switch to Illustrator, and my participation here decreased.

    After Effects works brilliantly with Illustrator files. In fact, it maintains their layers. After importing a layered file into AE, you can animate each layer separately or apply separate effects to each layer. I always wished I could do this with a Xara file. If this were only possible, I could drop Illustrator and use Xara for all my animation artwork.

    Then I encountered a similar problem with Flash -- and I HAD to solve it. I had a Flash file (given to me by a client) with 100 layers in it. I needed to bring this into AE while keeping its layers intact. Luckily, I just had to bring it in as a still image -- not animated. The animation would be completed in AE.

    Flash -- like Xara -- can export as an Illustrated file. So I did this and then tried to import the file into AE. I got an error message. The same error message that I got years ago when I tried to import a Xara-generated Illustrated file.

    As some of you may know, Illustrator files are actually ASCII text files with a scripting language inside. So I generated two AI files: one from Flash, one from Illustrator. Then I opened them both up in a text editor and compared them (Flash exports Illustrator 6 files, so I exported the Illustrator file as a version 6 file too.)

    There were quite a few differences, but after experimenting, I discovered the crucial ommissions from the Flash-generated file:

    1. There's a line of code that looks like...

    %%EndComments

    In a Illustrator-generated file, there's another line somewhere above this line that is MISSING from the Flash-generated version. I added pasted it in, and the result looked like this:

    %AI5_NumLayers: 3
    %%EndComments

    In the line above, I had to change the number 3 to the actual number of layers in the Flash-generated file. So the problem -- part of the problem -- is that Flash-generated AI files are missing a crucial tag that tells AE how many layers there are inside it. Interestingly, you CAN import these files into Illustrator with no problems. But they cause an error in AE. Illustrator must be able to deal with layers as it finds them in the file; AE obviously needs to know how many layers exist right off the bat.

    2. Here's how a layer looks inside an Illustrator-generated AI file:

    %AI5_BeginLayer
    1 1 1 1 0 0 0 79 128 255 Lb
    (Layer 1) Ln
    0 A
    1 Ap
    0 O
    0.0078 0.9647 0.5333 0 k
    0 R
    0 0 0 1 K
    0 J 0 j 1 w 4 M []0 d
    0 XR
    332.9746 416.0508 m
    332.9746 386.667 309.1533 362.8457 279.7695 362.8457 c
    250.3848 362.8457 226.564 386.667 226.564 416.0508 c
    226.564 445.4355 250.3848 469.2563 279.7695 469.2563 c
    309.1533 469.2563 332.9746 445.4355 332.9746 416.0508 c
    b
    LB
    %AI5_EndLayer--

    Flash-generated layers looked exactly the same -- except they were missing the "%BeginLayer--" and "%AI5_EndLayer--" tags. I created a little MS Word macro (like a Photoshop action) that searched for

    1 1 1 1 0 0 0

    and replaced that with

    %AI5_BeginLayer--
    1 1 1 1 0 0 0

    and a similar one that searched for "LB" and replaced it with

    LB
    %AI5_EndLayer--

    The file imported into After Effects perfectly!

    I immediately wondered if the same trick would work with Xara. But as it turns out, Xara DOES add the appropriate layer tags into the text file. So the problem had to lie elsewhere.

    I opened up a Xara-generated Illustrator file in notepad. As it turns out, Xara generated AI version 7 files. The trouble turns out to be with the way Xara writes color information into the file. It MIXES RGB and CYMK values (why?!?) and this is totally unacceptable to AE. It's also pretty difficult to fix this with a find and replace. But you can fix it by opening the file in Illustrator and resaving it. Stragely, this tactic DOESN'T work with Flash files, which is why I was forced to come up with the hack.

    I realize this might only interest .00001% of the people here, but I thought I'd post it anyway. If someone else had posted this a week ago, I'd have been grateful!

    I know Xara isn't in active development, but fixing this problem -- so that Xara writes good AI code -- should take very few man-hours to fix. The folks a Xara, Ltd. should think this one over. It would make their program usable for a whole new group of people!

    Marcus Geduld
    { email me } { visit me }
    Marcus Geduld
    { email me } { visit me }

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    New York, NY, USA
    Posts
    171

    Default

    Hi. Some of you may remember me. I used to post more often (I still lurk). In the last few years, my work has moved me further away from web/graphic design and more into film/video effects.

    The main app I use is Adobe After Effects, and unfortunately I've never been able to get it to import Xara files. So I was forced to switch to Illustrator, and my participation here decreased.

    After Effects works brilliantly with Illustrator files. In fact, it maintains their layers. After importing a layered file into AE, you can animate each layer separately or apply separate effects to each layer. I always wished I could do this with a Xara file. If this were only possible, I could drop Illustrator and use Xara for all my animation artwork.

    Then I encountered a similar problem with Flash -- and I HAD to solve it. I had a Flash file (given to me by a client) with 100 layers in it. I needed to bring this into AE while keeping its layers intact. Luckily, I just had to bring it in as a still image -- not animated. The animation would be completed in AE.

    Flash -- like Xara -- can export as an Illustrated file. So I did this and then tried to import the file into AE. I got an error message. The same error message that I got years ago when I tried to import a Xara-generated Illustrated file.

    As some of you may know, Illustrator files are actually ASCII text files with a scripting language inside. So I generated two AI files: one from Flash, one from Illustrator. Then I opened them both up in a text editor and compared them (Flash exports Illustrator 6 files, so I exported the Illustrator file as a version 6 file too.)

    There were quite a few differences, but after experimenting, I discovered the crucial ommissions from the Flash-generated file:

    1. There's a line of code that looks like...

    %%EndComments

    In a Illustrator-generated file, there's another line somewhere above this line that is MISSING from the Flash-generated version. I added pasted it in, and the result looked like this:

    %AI5_NumLayers: 3
    %%EndComments

    In the line above, I had to change the number 3 to the actual number of layers in the Flash-generated file. So the problem -- part of the problem -- is that Flash-generated AI files are missing a crucial tag that tells AE how many layers there are inside it. Interestingly, you CAN import these files into Illustrator with no problems. But they cause an error in AE. Illustrator must be able to deal with layers as it finds them in the file; AE obviously needs to know how many layers exist right off the bat.

    2. Here's how a layer looks inside an Illustrator-generated AI file:

    %AI5_BeginLayer
    1 1 1 1 0 0 0 79 128 255 Lb
    (Layer 1) Ln
    0 A
    1 Ap
    0 O
    0.0078 0.9647 0.5333 0 k
    0 R
    0 0 0 1 K
    0 J 0 j 1 w 4 M []0 d
    0 XR
    332.9746 416.0508 m
    332.9746 386.667 309.1533 362.8457 279.7695 362.8457 c
    250.3848 362.8457 226.564 386.667 226.564 416.0508 c
    226.564 445.4355 250.3848 469.2563 279.7695 469.2563 c
    309.1533 469.2563 332.9746 445.4355 332.9746 416.0508 c
    b
    LB
    %AI5_EndLayer--

    Flash-generated layers looked exactly the same -- except they were missing the "%BeginLayer--" and "%AI5_EndLayer--" tags. I created a little MS Word macro (like a Photoshop action) that searched for

    1 1 1 1 0 0 0

    and replaced that with

    %AI5_BeginLayer--
    1 1 1 1 0 0 0

    and a similar one that searched for "LB" and replaced it with

    LB
    %AI5_EndLayer--

    The file imported into After Effects perfectly!

    I immediately wondered if the same trick would work with Xara. But as it turns out, Xara DOES add the appropriate layer tags into the text file. So the problem had to lie elsewhere.

    I opened up a Xara-generated Illustrator file in notepad. As it turns out, Xara generated AI version 7 files. The trouble turns out to be with the way Xara writes color information into the file. It MIXES RGB and CYMK values (why?!?) and this is totally unacceptable to AE. It's also pretty difficult to fix this with a find and replace. But you can fix it by opening the file in Illustrator and resaving it. Stragely, this tactic DOESN'T work with Flash files, which is why I was forced to come up with the hack.

    I realize this might only interest .00001% of the people here, but I thought I'd post it anyway. If someone else had posted this a week ago, I'd have been grateful!

    I know Xara isn't in active development, but fixing this problem -- so that Xara writes good AI code -- should take very few man-hours to fix. The folks a Xara, Ltd. should think this one over. It would make their program usable for a whole new group of people!

    Marcus Geduld
    { email me } { visit me }
    Marcus Geduld
    { email me } { visit me }

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Placitas, New Mexico, USA
    Posts
    41,514

    Default

    That should be useful information to persons in the same boat as you, Marcus.

    Though, as you know, that kind of information leaves me glassy-eyed with a slight amount of drool dripping from the corner of my mouth :-)

    Gary

    Gary Priester

    Moderator Person


    <a href="http://www.gwpriester.com">
    www.gwpriester.com </a>


    <a href="http://www.xaraxone.com">
    The Xara Xone </a>




  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Prince Edward Island, Canada --- The land of lawn tractors
    Posts
    5,389

    Default

    Marcus -- I'm wondering what is the difference between an .ai file and a eps? One of xara's export types is "Adobe Illustrator (*.ai, *.eps)" and I assume from that the .ai and .eps are interchangable just by renaming the file.

    Also perhaps you can shed some light on this: I tried to import into Xara a eps generated by a 3d program. Xara wouldn't load it -- a message noted "eps cannot be loaded because it is a renderable eps file". Any ideas what's up with that?? I attach the eps file if it is of any interest. I would just love to be able to get the lines and surfaces into Xara from the 3d program so I could do some Xara magic on them. (The export from the 3d program is hidden line so it should be 2d).

    Thanks for any help you (or others) might be able to give.

    Regards, Ross

    <a href=http://www.designstop.com/>DesignStop.Com</a>
    Attached Files Attached Files

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    New York, NY, USA
    Posts
    171

    Default

    I don't know all the ins-and-outs, but EPS stands for Encapsulated PostScript. Which means that it was originally intended as a way of sending information to a postscript printer and then letting the printer deal with it. In theory, you should be able to embed an EPS file inside any sort of foreign body -- i.e. an MS Word file -- and the host should just send that data to the printer, unaltered.

    Illustrator calls its VERSION of "Illustrator EPS" and Xara calls it's version "Xara EPS," which probably means that each is placing it's own unique garbage into the file.

    That's about all I know about EPS. Sorry I couldn't be of more help. I do know that After Effects won't read in any EPS file. It has to be an Illustrator file.

    Marcus Geduld
    { email me } { visit me }
    Marcus Geduld
    { email me } { visit me }

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Placitas, New Mexico, USA
    Posts
    41,514

    Default

    How large was that image to begin with?

    I was able to import it into CorelDRAW 11 using the Interpretable EPS filter but it came in as tiny. Then I enlarged it 500% and it became about 10 times larger than the page size.

    I was unable to open it in Ilustrator 10.

    The difference between an AI and a PostScript file, I belive, is the AI file is meant to be edited in Illustrator while the EPS file has been converted to a printable format.

    To further complicate matters, Illustrator files and PDF files are now the same, so that you can open a PDF file directly in Illustrator.

    Gary

    Gary Priester

    Moderator Person


    <a href="http://www.gwpriester.com">
    www.gwpriester.com </a>


    <a href="http://www.xaraxone.com">
    The Xara Xone </a>




  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    819

    Default

    Ross, I opened it in CorelDraw9 and dragged it into Xara...but have no idea if this is what it's supposed to be. I've attached the .xar file.

    Mickie
    Attached Files Attached Files

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    East Sussex, England
    Posts
    2,021

    Default

    Thanks for sharing this with us Marcus, hopefully Xara may take note and provide a fix yet.

    Christine
    Christine

    Software: XDPX9, WD9,WD10,XDPX10,WD11,XDPX11,XDP365

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Surrey, UK
    Posts
    440

    Default

    Very interesting. Most of my work is animation at the moment and I comp everything together in AE. I use Xara quite a bit but by exporting as png files. I pretty much gave up on Flash when I discovered Moho
    http://www.lostmarble.com
    (And after being told by macromedia that Flash wasn't meant to be an animation app!) Again I export as bitmaps.
    Xara vectors in AE would be pretty useful though. I'll have to do some experimenting. (I don't have illustrator but do have Freehand.)
    Many thanks for the ideas
    Huge Regards
    Dave

    Home sweet home:
    Http://www.squeakypics.co.uk
    http://www.xaraxone.com/FeaturedArt/dc3/index.htm
    http://www.lostmarble.com/moho/gallery/

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Prince Edward Island, Canada --- The land of lawn tractors
    Posts
    5,389

    Default

    Thanks for the help guys! Mickie you got it! It was just a simple cube. The problems Gary noted with figuring out the size no doubt relates to the scale in the 3d program where the cube had been drawn 5 feet high.

    It looks like I'm going to have t install my old CorelDraw5 on my machine and see if that works as a route for the 3d to Xara. In the past I was always forced to just bring in lines from Cad drawings wich doesn't bring in any faces. Being able to bring in faces will make my life much easier.

    Thanks!

    Regards, Ross

    <a href=http://www.designstop.com/>DesignStop.Com</a>

 

 

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •