Xara Designer Pro as a Professional app for Pro work?

[pauland]

I am just an onlooker on this subject. I'm no print specialist and because all my work involves collaboration with third parties that inevitably use Adobe software and expect me to do the same, I no longer use Xara as I used to.

CMYK support seems to be THE consensual issue amongst Pro users. Print seems to be the thing for many professionals.

I would guess that second to that and across the Xara community would be better support for mobile/responsive websites.

[mwenz]

Personally I would like to see some design stuff that (A) was designed as a CMYK document that (B) didn't output correctly as checked in Acrobat.

I made (or, rather, am still working on) an XDP document that has CMYK color swatches in 10% increments that is dead accurate in the PDFX-1a output. The intent of the document is with the advent of POD and the use of Xerox Docucenter printers available at many/most quick print shops, is one can have the PDF printed in order to see where *their* color shifts occur.

It isn't that CMYK support cannot be updated/improved, it can. I iterated how earlier in this thread. Add to that support for PDFX-4, which simply resolves many issues of mixed RGB/CMYK and transparency issues.

Take care, Mike

[Albacore]

I agree with you Mike here there has been a load of silliness being spouted in this thread:
1. I cant remember who stated the fact about the lack of grayscale which is true but how many here have used Illy to prepare for a newspaper print:- you have to jump through hoops there as well!
2. You would never use Illy to check files for print that is the job of Acro Pro:- What do you do before sending a job for print in Illy? You rasterize areas of your drawing and that is what the Export filter does in Xara automatically so areas of your file produced in Xara are rendered as a bitmap. So there are no real value in taking it into Illy far far better to check the file in Acro Pro where you will see the problems. Acro is a big tool and is a must for any person who sends files to printers not just digital print shops and it is the only tool that Adobe produced that when I was working I couldn't do without.
3. I think it was Jimi K that gave his way of preparing files for print using PS from Xara:- Well I would say why not let Xara produce the PDF and let the RIP do the work for you. If you do it your way you are going to have a lot of out of gamut colours coming from Xara in RGB to CMYK in PS
4. Now we come to Gradients and I can remember huge arguments about a few years back about quality:- The only way to get excellent gradients is to use a raster programme, like PS, it all about maths in a vector programme. You can't take a file that has been produced in one vector programme into another and expect it to be the same! You try taking a AI doc into Corel or Freehand and expect it look right or be able to edit it that makes no sense as each of them has a different way of rendering them. You can even try that in Illy take a doc. from CS 4 and try and open it in CS 3 when your'e using gradients.
5. Someone mentioned the Bitmap Tracer was poor! well I think it is fine you just have to know the settings and the right size to scan at. If you are wanting to trace a photo forget it but who needs to trace a photo any more when your phones have res. up to 16 Mp and we can blow up that res to any paper size used.

Now I wasn't trying to pick on anyone here I was just trying to blow away a few misconceptions. Sending a file to print is easy as if it was hard you wouldn't have people doing it every day but you must learn the rules first. Look on the net as that is the way I learned. In the first page of this thread I gave a bit of my own history just to show that I had a bit of experience working with vector files and bugger me why do I still use Xara to send to print there must be a reason. The pain fact it is faster, for certain types of work, yes even with an RGB screen display. with no CMYK artboard! Is it the one that I would use to draw cartoons with? no. That is why I stated that I used three vector programmes, Xara, Illustrator and Freehand all with different pros & cons. I could have listed the pros & cons for Illy underneath the ones that I did for Xara but the thread asked " was Pro an App. for Work" and I answered. I think the Pro version is a great app for web and print and for simple jobs there is none better in a lot of areas. Would I use it all of the time no for the same reason as Mike uses both Illy and InDesign no there is no one programme that will do all. I hope no one will take offence with what I have said here as it wasn't what was meant. If you take anything from what I have said here I hope it will be if you are sending docs. for printing have a copy of Acro Pro on your h/drive. Mind you you better be quick as Adobe have their "head in the clouds" with the new subscription service but that is another thread here on TG.

[Jimi King]

I have tried letting Xara produce the PDF (Native CMYK, etc, etc). The end results have always been a disappointment. It usually looks OK on screen after export but the printed article is usually dull and lifeless. I have found over many years that the best results come from going the RGB export of a bitmap and then convert to CMYK externally. I used to use Corel Draw for the purpose, but I no longer have a copy that will work with Windows 7. So now it's Photoshop. I would love it if XDP could do the job, but that hard facts are that it doesn't. At least not for me.

[WilliamHere]

2. You would never use Illy to check files for print that is the job of Acro Pro:- What do you do before sending a job for print in Illy? You rasterize areas of your drawing and that is what the Export filter does in Xara automatically so areas of your file produced in Xara are rendered as a bitmap. So there are no real value in taking it into Illy far far better to check the file in Acro Pro where you will see the problems. Acro is a big tool and is a must for any person who sends files to printers not just digital print shops and it is the only tool that Adobe produced that when I was working I couldn't do without.

Thanks for the post Albacore. I don't think anyone should get offended by your pose. I personally welcome it since it leads to good intelligent dialog on this subject.
We all have had different experiences with XDP, and none of them should be ignored, but on the other hand we need to clear out any misconceptions about XDP as well.

One reason I would need to bring a .ai file produced by XDP into Illy, is because a client uses Illy, and wants to be able to open and possibly work with the file further in Illy if needed. So yes, in this case there is a need to check the file in Illy before the client gets it to make sure you don't get a phone call later telling you that the file is bad.

I would like to hear your response to Jimi King's situation with PDF files from XDP, CMYK etc.

Again, thank you for posting. I am learning a lot about XDP from everyone here.
Lets keep talking and sharing our experiences, lets keep it professional, and don't get offended by others comments - these comments can teach us a lot. We can all learn something from each other.

Cheers!

[steve.ledger]

One reason I would need to bring a .ai file produced by XDP into Illy, is because a client uses Illy, and wants to be able to open and possibly work with the file further in Illy if needed.

@WilliamThere: In post#25 in direct response to your comment in post#24 I demonstrated that exporting from DPX as PDF/x and not .ai or .eps was the better format to choose.
There was a sound reason for this. Perhaps this might help you understand why I did so?

"Adobe Illustrator, as with other Adobe programs, is built on core PDF technology. In fact, the native Adobe Illustrator file format is PDF, and as such it is one of the best applications supporting direct export to PDF."

See ► http://www.graphics.com/modules.php?...icle&artid=839

[pauland]

Part of me thinks that this discussion about CMYK and preparing documents for print is crazy, because it relies upon the experience of every Xara user to accomplish a task that should have a definitive workflow for a product that describes itself as Pro.

I'd venture that it would be far better if Xara actually outlined a definitive process to get accurate CMYK colour and page reproduction in a print environment using Xara products.

That process could include the use of non-Xara tools to help, and include the way to move assets to and from Xara and Adobe software in a CMYK based workflow.

[mwenz]

No, Paul, the issue/discussion isn't crazy.

The fact is that on every forum I inhabit--Adobe, Serif, Quark, and here--the same questions and misunderstandings abound. First clue...it isn't any of the aforementioned tools (usually) at fault. It is (usually) user error. Which is why these discussions are healthy.

Any work-flow that comprises two or more applications (much less from different vendors) increases the chance for change in color values and increases the amount of complexity in producing consistent art ready for print in the final application.

If I am creating vector art to be placed in ID, Quark or PagePlus, there is zero issue in the CMYK components that comprise that art. Attached is a screen shot from Xara showing the color editor. Another showing the PDF produced in Acrobat and its color panel. Last is the same Xara produced PDF, placed into ID and another PDF produced from ID showing the color output again in Acrobat.

Often times the misunderstanding is as simple as not understanding that CMYK cannot reproduce all of the RGB color gamut. Sometimes people do not understand that printing CMYK is not as simple as picking colors that "look good" on-screen and are disappointed in the results--often using words like "dull, lifeless, not vibrant." Designing in CMYK color ought to be done using a color swatch book, even in a color managed system and application.

Mike

[Big Frank]

forgot to add that for the print work i have done i have almost always sent my files as acrobat and not had any problems with printers who insisted on eps or ai

[mwenz]

...One reason I would need to bring a .ai file produced by XDP into Illy, is because a client uses Illy, and wants to be able to open and possibly work with the file further in Illy if needed. So yes, in this case there is a need to check the file in Illy before the client gets it to make sure you don't get a phone call later telling you that the file is bad...

I have clients using AI and often begin the work in XDP but finish it off in AI. Either it is finished in AI just for file compatibility or for AI's specific attributes and strengths. But it isn't to "color correct" the AI version of the file. Most clients could care less what I use.

The attached is the same design as above, brought into AI using the Xara produced PDF, showing the color panel in AI after opening the Xara PDF.

But for just printing out of Xara? PDF is what the printer gets. I have never, ever sent original files to a service bureau, quick printer or POD service.

Mike