Ink weight control in Xara ?

[stephane_fr]

Hello everybody,


I would like to know if there an ink weight control possible, in Xara Designer Pro (that's for several graphic works that will be printed in offset mode in a few days...)
For instance, if the printer ask for "a maximum of 260% ink weight rate". How can I control this in Xara directly ?

And another question : shall I use the "print color separation" mode (print options), and how ?


Thank you very much.

[gwpriester]

Hello Stephane

Xara does not have this capability.

It is better to let the printer do the separations. The printer should be able to do this and will know how he/she needs to set things up.

Export your file as PDF/X, using the highest setting, PDF/X-3 2003 and provide this file to your printer.

[mwenz]

Stéphane,

As Gary wrote, most every printer will do the seps from the PDF. The only time I still do seps is when I am working with a local fellow from India using a very, very old work-flow and equipment and is doing 2-3 color work. He sends files out to image to the film used and I do the seps in-house (still to PDF) because of his unusual screen angle requirements.

Now, at the risk of beating the Adobe Acrobat drum too much, if you need to or desire to see where on any given design you run the risk of over ink saturation, purchase Adobe Acrobat. Now that version 11 hit the streets yesterday, version 10 will drop in price sooner or later if it has not yet.

The screen shot shows a PDF loaded and the Total Area coverage box near the bottom checked. I am using the color red for Acrobat to display all ink densities that rise above a TAC of 280%, which you can see on the image. This would need to be brought down to 260% for printing on absorbent paper else the design would go all muddy and ill-defined in those areas. At 300% there is very little, and would be fine for printing to a glossy paper that has less ink absorption.

As well, if a design is being printed via a digital process, one can go higher in TAC because of the inks used.

In order to lower the ink absorption, I would need to alter the colors, usually by knocking back the black percentage and the other main color component or even them all a little bit.

Take care, Mike

[mwenz]

Stéphane--forgot to add something. In most cases of X percentage of TAC overage, most any decent printer can adjust this during film creation. So a little bit over usually means nothing.

Also, before I adjust anything, I always speak to the print production department and discuss the job and get a proof of their adjustment.

Take care, Mike

[stephane_fr]

Stéphane--forgot to add something. In most cases of X percentage of TAC overage, most any decent printer can adjust this during film creation. So a little bit over usually means nothing.

Also, before I adjust anything, I always speak to the print production department and discuss the job and get a proof of their adjustment.

Take care, Mike

Hello Mike, and thank you for once again helping with your answers...

I have problems with this printing, that last a long long time I would prefer use to do another things !


Here is what happenend, by chronology :


- First I made my PDF export in CMYK mode and 300 dpi, without any questions in mind
- The publisher contacted me then, asking me to change my blacks 0% 0% 0% 100% into... 50% (Blue) 0% 0% 100% !
- I was a bit surprised, but I did this. The result consisted in texts that was "strange", as the blue was so visible.
- Then I asked him why this changes, he sent me this link : http://www.prepressure.com/design/basics/tic

Here what he explained me then :

They say: "When several colors are printed on top of each other, there is a limit to the amount of ink or toner that can be put on paper. This maximum total dot percentage is referred to as either TIC (Total Ink Coverage) or TAC (Total Area Coverage).
When a designer ignores this technical limitation, the ink that gets laid down last won't attach properly to the previous layers, leading to muddy browns in neutral areas. The ink also won't dry properly on the press sheets. This can cause set-off where the ink of a still wet sheet rubs off on whatever is stacked on top of it." More information can be found on the website mentioned.

Please send us an example card to check it. It's very important to hold max. 300 % ink coverage for the card production
to avoid clueing of the cards!
Best for black text is, to dye it K 100 % + set to overprint, to avoid unsharp printed text. Please export to an 1.4 PDF without reducing the transparencies, it's not really important to send us PDF x documents. More important is, to send a PDF for all front sides (on every page only one card) and a second PDF for all back cards.

After that, he sent me another mail, with this :

For black text is the best to dye it K 100 % + set overprint.
For black areas, it's better to print a second colour under the black
(mostly a little cyan 20-60 % or also for example C 30 - M 20 - Y 20%)
It's better to dye the area with 10 or 20 %, than without second colour!
Please let us see an example!

And he resumed with this :

it's better to dye bigger black areas in 30-20-20-100% than only in K 100 % (on one layer)

So, is what I have to do is :

- to convert the black species of all my files texts , from K 100% to 30-20-20-100% ?
- to create a second layer ("to print a second colour under the black"), with the black areas files only. (Then why a second layer for black areas, and no second layer for black texts ?)
-> what becames the "overprinting" option then ? If the 100% black doesn't exist anymore ? ( = shall I use an "overprint" option - that, I discovered it, Xara proposes - or not ?)


All in all it is quite confusing for me, I must admit .


And just to finish : "It's very important to hold max. 300 % ink coverage for the card production" : Is there a way to have this control, in Xara itself (to gain a little - no, a lot of - time ! )

[mwenz]

Stéphane, I'm a bit slow this morning to get to the forum and I need to dash out for a bit so I might skip something below...so feel free to ask for clarification. I'll check back later.

The publisher contacted me then, asking me to change my blacks 0% 0% 0% 100% into... 50% (Blue) 0% 0% 100% !

Well, that is a goofy ink mix. As is seen in his later recommendation for a different "rich black" ink percentages. Which I'll comment on below.

The printer's statement:

For black text is the best to dye it K 100 % + set overprint.
For black areas, it's better to print a second colour under the black
(mostly a little cyan 20-60 % or also for example C 30 - M 20 - Y 20%)
It's better to dye the area with 10 or 20 %, than without second colour!

Normally 100% K looks best on smaller text and contributes to lower cost printing if it has no color underneath (i.e., if the black is printed on just the paper and no colored design elements are under it). But if there is any color under the black text, and the text (or anything designed at 100% K) is on top of another design element that has color to it, over printing solves several issues. One issue is larger areas of 100% K black can appear dull, washed out. But over printing black on top of another color makes it look "richer," more black.

I take exception to the idea that "All" text should be 100% and set to over printing. My belief is below in the next comment on the printer's quote. For here, let me just say that *if* there is black text that is both directly on the paper (no color underneath) and onto colored areas, there will be a color difference in the text. The part of the text printed with the color of the paper only underneath will look less black than the text that is preinted on top of other colored design elements.

Overprinting one or more elements that are black is possible in Xara. And you can opt to print all black over printed during PDF creation.

The printer's statement:

it's better to dye bigger black areas in 30-20-20-100% than only in K 100 % (on one layer)

This would be called a "rich black" ink percentages. It is absolutely a good thing to do in many instances. For small text point sizes it is a problem, but for text above say 10 or 12 point, it produces a black representative of what you see on your monitor (very black). Using this mixture for black is especially good when black text overlays colored areas because of two things. (1) the text color appears very close to the same color across both white (no ink) areas and across colored areas. (2) It avoids trapping and knock-out areas necessary when items are 100%k when "black" is printed on top of other colors. This aids the press department in what is called "registration."

OK. All that black stuff. In practice, if I have any black that cross onto a colored element *and* there is black that is not on any colored elements, I will use a rich black mix (the 30-20-20-100 or a different variation of CMYK percentages) for everything that is black so it all has the best possible color match between the black elements and text.

Printer's quote:

And just to finish : "It's very important to hold max. 300 % ink coverage for the card production" : Is there a way to have this control, in Xara itself (to gain a little - no, a lot of - time)

There is no way to control ink limits in Xara as mentioned above by Gary. But 300% is a lot of ink. It is a high TAC and seriously doubt one will typically hit that number. Possible, but it is a high TAC.


There is likely more I could say. Making these choices are all best made during the design stage, before computer work is being done or as the design develops. Without seeing the design, it is difficult to discuss over printing, black mixes and the rest. But other than the 50% cyan thing mixed with black, what the printer is recommending is pretty normal.

Ultimately, the printer can control the ink limits in his pre-press software or within Acrobat before it hits the pre-press software that will produce the film. In general, what they limit is the Black component, though they may slightly lower the CMY amounts a tad to compensate the lowering of the black density and it all depends on the design.

In general, I don't think you need to create other layers and put color under them.

If you would like, I would be glad to look at the design. Just upload it to dropbox and PM me the link. It would make discussing this a little easier.

Take care, Mike

[stephane_fr]

Hello Mike.

I send you private message...

[Albacore]

Stephane occasionally I have met printers who to put it politely have been unhelpful when printing my work and put up barriers making it difficult to get my work printed. The person that you are using is doing the same, just look in Yellow Pages and find another who is more helpful and is willing to quickly give you a wet copy of your work. If this is one of you first jobs to get printed and you live miles, like me, from your printer then go down to your local photocopying shop and let them print it on their digital machine you soon see the TAC.

[stephane_fr]

Hello Albacore

Thank you for your advice that makes sense. Anyway I couldn't have more control on the publisher operator, as it is my client that treated this question, finding out a german (I am french !) company to do the job.
Perhaps not the best, but the less expensive company she found, so...

I want to thank Gary, and especially Mike (mwenz) for his help here and in private messages, for these subtle questions...