question for AnthonyF

[jens g.r. benthien]

Mister Super-Administrator,

do you think it's smart to move all OT messages to another forum?

I check **this** forum because I am a Xara X user, but never the OT forum. And I check the 3D forum, because I am an industrial designer, but not the OT forum.

I really appreciate OT posts from Xara X and 3D members, and **I want to read them here**, not somewhere else.

Especially after some replies it it more than annoying to switch over to the OT forum to continue the reading.

My kind advice: please leave your fingers off of this forum, administer the real important stuff but not our community, ok? What about the tiny fly-shit size font in the message box after you 'smarter-than-the-rest-of-the-world-guys' modified the forum board? There is tons of work waiting for you to get the bugs out of the 'new and improved' version, so please get back to your basic task and let **us** decide what we want to read here.

Please get rid of this mentality that*s typical for Germans: to control everything Stasi like. Yes, I **am** a German according to my passport, but I **hate** these idiots because of their Stasi mentality. There is absolutely no logical reason to force the members into a certain place or forum or section. If you like to force someone, please consider to join the army or navy, become a General or Lieutenant, but please, please, leave this forum as it is.

Got the message?

Thanks a ton for your understanding. And I really hope to see an improvement in the font size in the message box - there are not just MSIE users here, but Opera users as well!

jens g.r. benthien
designer
http://www.sacalobra.de

----------//--
If you don't know how to dream you'll never be a designer.
----------//--

[jens g.r. benthien]

Mister Super-Administrator,

do you think it's smart to move all OT messages to another forum?

I check **this** forum because I am a Xara X user, but never the OT forum. And I check the 3D forum, because I am an industrial designer, but not the OT forum.

I really appreciate OT posts from Xara X and 3D members, and **I want to read them here**, not somewhere else.

Especially after some replies it it more than annoying to switch over to the OT forum to continue the reading.

My kind advice: please leave your fingers off of this forum, administer the real important stuff but not our community, ok? What about the tiny fly-shit size font in the message box after you 'smarter-than-the-rest-of-the-world-guys' modified the forum board? There is tons of work waiting for you to get the bugs out of the 'new and improved' version, so please get back to your basic task and let **us** decide what we want to read here.

Please get rid of this mentality that*s typical for Germans: to control everything Stasi like. Yes, I **am** a German according to my passport, but I **hate** these idiots because of their Stasi mentality. There is absolutely no logical reason to force the members into a certain place or forum or section. If you like to force someone, please consider to join the army or navy, become a General or Lieutenant, but please, please, leave this forum as it is.

Got the message?

Thanks a ton for your understanding. And I really hope to see an improvement in the font size in the message box - there are not just MSIE users here, but Opera users as well!

jens g.r. benthien
designer
http://www.sacalobra.de

----------//--
If you don't know how to dream you'll never be a designer.
----------//--

[AntonyF]

jens g.r. benthien,

I don't appreciate the tone of your message, particularly as you don't know the circumstances surrounding any changes or my motivations, so please don't judge. I will now clarify many points for you.

The introduction of new forums is based upon feedback from various people at the messageboard (and from my experience of running messageboards for around six years) and even people who have left TalkGraphics -- this wasn't done in a vacuum. In fact I have spoken to every moderator before changes were made. If you also check, there is now a forum for questions and suggestions, so that users can also get involved and offer any thoughts on making TalkGraphics better. This community is for everyone, and everyone is welcome to air their views.

This forum here is a Xara X forum. In that it is designed for content relating to the Xara X programme. If it is kept on topic, it allows for the forum to remain more focused on what it's meant for: for Xara X users to share idea, tips and whatever else.

Before, there was no proper place to post off-topic things, questions etc. and that was why the new forums were introduced. It allows people to socialise if they wish, but also to keep forums like the Xara X on-topic for the good of all. It's not like we've banned particular topics, it's just that they have a more approrpiate home now.

So it'll take a while for people to get used to the changes, to see the new forums etc. but that will just be initial "getting used to it" and things will be better in the long wrong.

Every topic has a place. I don't think you'd like it if the forum was suddenly invaded by Menu Maker topics. Anything non-Xara X is the same, whether it's about another programme, politics or anything else. It's a clear, easy to understand distinction that all topics have a home. And this makes it better for all visitors.

Switching to another forum really isn't that difficult. You go back to the main page, then click on off-topic. As simple as that. Or, even simpler, if you look to the top there is a tiny little house symbol next to Xara X. Click that, and you can select from any of the other forums. Whether you choose to go there is of course your prerogative.

In terms of the "tiny fly-shit size font" as you so put it, this is the first I've heard of this. The new design and features were welcomed by TalkGraphics.com users, and this is the first I've heard of the problem. You should have told me sooner, and I could have contacted our messageboard provider and told them about a potential issue.

I cannot correct any "bugs" as the service is provided by Infopop. They do all the necessary coding. However, we are moving to a new service, so I would suggest just waiting a while and seeing if the new service does the same thing. If it does, make a post in the feedback forum and I will contact Infopop and query it.

I hope this has addressed your concerns.

--------
I'd start a revolution, if I could get up in the morning.

[This message was edited by AntonyF on January 30, 2004 at 16:04.]

[jens g.r. benthien]

Why can't you let the users decide where they want to post what? This is **their** community, and they are old and educated enough to decide what they want to place where. They - and especially me - don't need a gate keeper, a Stasi controller, who closes a thread because **he** thinks he has to transfer the topic to another forum.

I enjoyed this open minded forum a lot, but believe me: living in a country with supervisors everywhere forcing people to do what the **smart and better** guys want is annoying. I know I am very sensible to censorship - and what you are doing here definitely is one of the worst censorships I have experienced. If you want to play God, join the German government or go to heaven, maybe they have a seat for you up there. Would you dare to call up Washington Post and tell them: hey, in my shitty mind that article isn't related to what the readers want, so I move it to the NYT? Hahahaha.

Your influence and random control is as superflous as a whole in the head of any person.

It would have been better if you would have posted a comment and some advice to post certain messages in another forum, but closing a thread is the worst censorship you could do.

This Xara X forum is the one with the highest visitor count. Leave it that way.

Suggestion: open up your own forum and message board with all your experience and lacking consumer orientation, but leave us alone. We don't need censorships, closed threads, and we don't need a Stasi like Internet or forum police officer or rude AnthonyF here.

All we want is a free forum. Period.

And all users and members of this forum should stand up and speak out load against your censorship and the superfluous actions you are taking here. Please join the fight against the external enforcement and Stasi like control, fight for your freedom in this forum! This is a FREE world, and at least **I** will stand up to fight for it.

jens g.r. benthien
designer
http://www.sacalobra.de

----------//--
If you don't know how to dream you'll never be a designer.
----------//--

[stratocast]

Mmmm....

I feel that I must support AnthonyF, here. The implementation of an "Off Topic" section is useful and hardly a revolutionary concept for a forum like this. Also, I must congratulate AnthonyF on his polite and measured response to Jens's crass tirade.

Jens, you need to wise-up and chill, man. I don't appreciate your tone either. It has no place on a friendly forum like this. http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/frown.gif BTW, shouldn't you have posted this in "Announcements, questions & suggestions section"????

-- Bob
http://www.aphroditesun.com
"It's a small world, but I wouldn't like to paint it"

[ivan louette]

I support Jens advice and I thank him to point on that question.

I had a similar impression about administration in the 3D forum recently. One of the most dynamic Moderator had left this forum and deleted all the topics he had posted before. I asked two times on the forum what had happened and only the second time the administrator replied all those topics were probably moved, beeing OT. I was also pointed to a link which had nothing to do with what I was asking about.

I think an OT forum isn't a bad solution, but it would be imperative to work like it was done at this link here on another forum. As you saw, a copy of the moved topic stays at its original place (and it is marked as moved in the title) and a link is created there directly to the new location of the moved topic. Today's multiple step and search for moved topics in Talkgraphics forums is absolutely uncomfortable and certainly not a progress !

And about Jens tone, I cannot agree with you AntonyF and Stratocast. Forcing people to live in a too asceptic area is also a sort of violence and the baddest thing for creativity and social link (and that's the reflexion of a non violent person !!!)

Sorry for the unconvenience, but that must be said.

ivan

My mini-tutorials
botarosa

[This message was edited by ivan louette on January 31, 2004 at 06:58.]

[gwpriester]

I tend to agree with Jens. And from the many years that Jens has contributed to these conferences, I think that some of the harshness of his responses is more a matter of translation into English than gruffness.

But then I can also see Anthony's point. And Anthony has finally taken an interest in these conferences after many years no attention from the TalkGrapics folks. And Anthony's efforts to streamline and improve the logic and functionality of these conferences is to be applauded.

That said. My feeling has always been that the Xara Conference is a community as much as it is a specific Xara-related conference. So OT messages are part of the community. If we have questions, such as my asking for help with a utility to print file contensts, should be appropriate in this conference, as I was asking for, and respect the answers I get from the people who participate in this conference. In other words, I know and trust these people.

One thing that is important for all of us to remember is that although English is the common language used to communicate in this conference, about 1/2 or more of the participants in the conference speak English as a second or third language. And subtlties are often lost in the translation.

But good manners are also important. We are all members of the community and need to respect and treat one another as we ourselves would like to be treated.

That make any sense at all?

Gary

Gary Priester

Moderator Person


<a href="http://www.gwpriester.com">
www.gwpriester.com </a>


<a href="http://www.xaraxone.com">
The Xara Xone </a>

[ivan louette]

I agree with you Gary, about the translation problems. You know French is my mother language.

I agree also about good manners, but there are also questions of subtlities there ! Before changing anything so important on a forum (like AntonyF did it) that would be important and respectuous to previously ask their opinion to the users. Sometimes very good ideas can emerge from a dialog. For me a long experience isn't enough to justify an unilateral decision. Each community is different from another. One must respect that too otherwise the decisions could have some kind of "orwellian" taste !

kindly http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
ivan

My mini-tutorials
botarosa

[joroho]

Personally, I agree with Gary that this forum is really for the Xara community and that, as long as OT topics are identified as such, we don't really mind helping each other in non-Xara areas.

Gary, I'm afraid you may be too kind towards Jens. Given what I've seen of his writing in the past, I suspect he has a pretty good command of the English language. Unfortunately, he has overstated his case (there's no censorship here) and has abrasive in trying to make his point -- which is consistent with his previous writing.

Antony, thanks for your efforts and it's good to see that someone is at least taking an effort in trying to improve the forums.

.joroho.

http://www.joroho.com/initials.gif

[RAMWolff44]

Hi Anthony,

I DO appreciate you efforts in the forums and I think your doing a wonderful job so far, THANKS!! http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Sometimes when I post an OT message in the XaraX forum it is directed to my 'colleges' in the XaraX forum, not any other forum.

If I need to post an OT type of post to ALL of TalkGraphics then I would use the Off Topic forum.

As a moderator over at Pixelparity I think that Peter and Risto, et all.... have implemented a very good idea used in other forums that if a topic is moved to a different forum then a little note and link to the forum where the topic was moved to is placed in the original topic and the thread is then locked, that way if someone that was keeping up with that particular topic has a direct path to it's new location instead of wondering what the heck happened to it.

You might consider trying this, I'm quite sure the feed back will be much more positive. http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Just my 2¢

Richard http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

http://www.ramwolffsworld.com//Publi..._Prowl_sig.gif

http://www.ramwolffsworld.com/RAMWolffsWorld