Bitmaps/Colour shift and poor print quality

[mags]

Hello

Hoping someone can enlighten a newbie to outsource printing.

I created a graphic (vector), then made a bitmap copy of it to enable me to use it as a fill. Exported the filled shape as an ai file and placed in Indesign.

The resulting outsourced prints (digital) show a shift in colour and poor quality print of the "graphic".

Could anyone kindly point me to where I am going wrong...badly wrong?!

(No problems at all with vectors exported - these printed great and no colour shift)

[Big Frank]

Make the bitmap copy @ 300dpi (instead of the default 96dpi) before you do the fill? Just a thought. The higher the export resolution the higher the end copy quality.

[instinctive.de]

Resolution has nothing to do with color.

You can check if you created the original bitmap copy as "256 colors" instead of "True Color", it should be "True Color".

In any case, creating a bitmap out of your vectors will convert any CMYK colors to RGB (AFAIK - I don't think Xtreme can export CMYK bitmaps), so that will definitely lead to a color shift.

There's no way around that.

[mags]

Many thanks to you both for taking the time to reply, much appreciated.

Bertgascon: thanks for the suggestion, was using 300dpi ....so unfortunately am still none the wiser as to the cause of the poor quality print.

Instinctive: yes, don't know where the resolution problem is coming from. Am new to exporting as ai but there doesn't appear to be any settings I can alter. Am reducing the image too once in Indesign........so still puzzled with that issue.

Ah! I did create the original bitmap as True colour + alpha, not 256 colours. And newbie me didn't realise that creating a bitmap from vectors will convert the CMYK colours to RGB. These both will have caused the colour shift problem.

Oh heck....this is a bummer!

[handrawn]

I think you can export a bitmap from xara as cmyk in tiff format

[mags]

handrawn - yes, you are a star! Thank you so much!

Thanks for suggesting that, I have tried it and the print quality is as it should be - sharp (only printing on my laser but gone is the fuzz!).

Won't know if there is any colour shift until I resend new files to the printers (but fingers crossed!). Can creating a bitmap (yes - I am clueless!) affect colour even though I export it as a cmyk tiff do you know?

Now wondering why I got it in my head that I should export as an ai file? Apart from smaller file size is there any benefit?

...for vectors should I continue to export as ai files
...and bitmaps as cmky tiffs

[gwpriester]

I would recommend exporting to PDF/X instead of a CMYK TIFF. Xara may have improved their CMYK TIFF export, it used to be unreliable at best, but PDF will probably do the best job for converting your document to CMYK.

The color shift you have observed may have a lot to do with color space. Xara's default color space is RGB. Colors appear more vibrant than in CMYK simulated color space. This is due to the more limited gamut of CMYK vs. RGB.

To get a better idea of how your design may look printed in CMYK select Window > Show Printer Colors > Simulate Printer Colors.

The colors will now appear much more muted and darker. This is closer to how they will look in printed form.

Adobe uses Simulated CMYK Color as its default color space.

[handrawn]

I have historically used bitmaps for printing - Tiff for cmyk - without significant problems

But my needs are simple in comparison to some

I would use PDF for vectors rather than AI based on my limited knowledge but Gary is an expert in the cmyk field, so whilst I have no feel for how PDF would handle cmyk bitmaps and vectors combined, if Gary recommends it it has to be worth trying

Glad you are making progress

[Albacore]

There are so many things that can go wrong here when sending a bitmap for print but in this case you are taking it to ID which helps.

I see no need for you to make a bitmap copy so that you can "place" it in ID unless your copy of ID is lower that version CS3 because CS3 and above all can place PDF's in the document. Since CS2 ID has had "smart objects" so as well as using PDF's you can "Ctrl+C" from Xara and ""Ctrl+V" into ID if it is just plain vectors with no bitmap effects, Blends, Transparencies or strange colour fills. I use ID a lot in my work as its PDF export is the best there is and it gives you the best warnings of any product if there are problems with any of the pre-press checks.

If you are using large bitmaps it is always the best thing to do is to use PS to proof colours and check for out of gamut areas which you can easily change. Having said that most printers prefer a doc to have high quality RGB bitmaps so that they can use there own software to RIP the images out of the doc and this is where they prefer an ID doc above all else.

[mags]

I really can't say just how much I appreciate all your help with this.

Gary - I have exported to PDF/X and changed to simulate printer colours on my screen. Thanks.

Handrawn - it does indeed seem like PDF is the way to go for me, thanks. My problem seems to be when creating the bitmap the colour is being changed. So when I place the graphic in Indesign the "pattern" (which is the bitmap exported as PDF/X) isn't matching the text, etc. (This probably makes no sense but if I am able am hoping to attach some files to explain)

Albacore (aside: hello fellow Scot - I am in Kirkcudbright, in the SW!) - I am making a bitmap copy to create a fill pattern (hope I am explaining myself okay). Using CS4.
I didn't know/hadn't learnt about the "smart objects" will have to give that a go with vectors - thanks.
Am lost a bit with using PS to proof colours and check for out of gamut areas. Will have to do some googling to see if I can read up on this.
Am using RCS printers - they ask for PDF files for print.


So, have now done some more experimenting (though have no idea what it all means)
- Using a document with the shape, shape > bitmap copy and fill.
1. Printing out the document from xara: the colour shift is showing on the bitmap copy and of course the fill. Print quality fine.
2. Exporting as PDF/X and placing in Indesign then printing - all colours are slightly different from a straight print from xara (guess that can be expected?), the colour shift is showing (original shape different colour from bitmap and fill). Print quality fine
3. Using the "Ctrl+C" from Xara and "Ctrl+V" into ID - wow! There is no colour shift at all between the original shape, bitmap and fill *however" the print quality isn't good.

I have attached some files:
1) xara file
2) PDF/X file
3) Photo of the original print which hopefully shows the colour shift - most easily seen on the "border" around the text I think. The colour of the lines on the pattern should be the same colour