Moderators / Xhris dispute

[handrawn]

I have to agree with most of that

decent desision making is always open and above board as the rule - though there may be exceptions for reasons of confidentiallity of course

EDIT - just see John's reply: time then for a change? - is a forum not its members as a nation its citizens? [hope thats not off topic]

[The Alien]

Nevertheless you had agreed with it when registering on this forum.

1) I don't recall that rule being there the date I registered at TG back in 2004, but maybe my memory doesn't serve me right.

2) You're only strengthening my opinion and the reasons behind it that I posted above.

[covoxer]

time then for a change?

You can always create your own forum.

[covoxer]

1) I don't recall that rule being there the date I registered at TG back in 2004, but maybe my memory doesn't serve me right.

Well, I remember it was there when I was registering the same month as you.
Anyhow, that was not the main point of my message. I'm sorry if you got it this way.
The point was that some people tend to do things to make moderators life harder... And as it gets harder, we get some consequences. The rule is one of the consequences, not the reason. Would it be removed, I doubt anything would change on better.
BTW No one had ever got an infraction for violating it. This fact only stresses how respectful moderators are...

[handrawn]

You can always create your own forum.

You know I might just do that [inset good old fashioned tungsten filament light bulb smiley here]

thanks

I love this place for the ideas it generates quite apart from anything else

[The Alien]

The point was that some people tend to do things to make moderators life harder... And as it gets harder, we get some consequences. The rule is one of the consequences, not the reason. Would it be removed, I doubt anything would change on better.
BTW No one had ever got an infraction for violating it. This fact only stresses how respectful moderators are...

The mods are respectful imo indeed, though I've personally never had to deal with them for breaking the rules.
Having said that, IMHO, that rule is wrong because it blocks out all reactions and feedback that the mods would otherwise get when making decisions.
Should it come so far that people start harassing mods after a certain decision, then the mods should just do what they do: deal with that (harassing) user in the proper way instead of making new rules to fill the holes if you understand what I mean. The way I see it:
Mod makes a decision --> people react to it (some in favor, some oppose) --> mod makes note of reaction and reconsiders decision if needed.
Mod makes a decision --> people react to it (some in favor, some oppose), and one or more members cross the line by making personal attacks towards the mod or someone else --> appropriate action taken against these members without stopping the original discussion from continuing.

The most important point (for TG) that I can make is: You can't prevent all the problems.
Over the time I've seen more and more rules created in order to prevent bad things from happening. But you can't prevent these things no matter how hard you try. And the rules have gone very (too?) far imo.
People get mad at eachother and fight. They get punished by mods for their behaviour and they get over it in a cooling-off-phase. That is how it goes. No reason to feel you've failed as a mod (not suggesting you do) or as a community if such an incident occurs, and no reason to add new rules to prevent yet another incident that has slipped through. You can't prevent it, no matter how perfect your community is. I'm just not sure how far things will go before someone in the team realises this.

But this discussion is kinda off-topic for this thread I think It's my opinion on the rules and also my attempt to tell the mod team why their policy needs adjusting imo.

BTW, the age-old argument of "if you don't like this place, you're free to go somewhere else" is kinda weak and distracts from the main discussion imo. Just sayin'.

[covoxer]

I love this place for the ideas it generates

Yep, like everyone else. Without moderators though, this place would generate spam and flame instead...
Before someone would get tempted to say how bad the moderation is done here, I shall remind you that these people did it for 10 years. The TG community was growing with their moderation all this time. And the fact that TG is considered as one of the most friendly and helpful forums on the web is in large part thanks to their efforts. These are the facts.

[Soquili]

Everyone please calm down.

The rule about not publicly discussing moderator decisions was made to prevent misunderstanding and escalation of emotions.

Sending a private message (PM) is not publicly discussing a mods decisions but gets your point across without getting heated discussions taking place publicly.

We have always wanted any moderator decision that anyone wanted to question to use a private message. If you don't want to PM the moderator that made the decision then contact another moderator.

[The Alien]

Everyone please calm down.

Not sure who that was aimed at, but I'm quite calm. And everyone else in the discussion is calm, from my point of view. In my experience neither I nor anyone else have expressed anything that one might call escalation ???

The rule about not publicly discussing moderator decisions is fundamentally flawed IMO. Forums are about discussing stuff together.
PM's are not public and don't allow others to join in on the discussion. Who knows, if members* were allowed to discuss mod decisions in public, they might actually learn from eachother which benefits in the future.
I say once again (dunno if I said it clearly): if said discussions lead to heated debates and crossing the line, the mods should intervene without interfering with the core discussion. Result: offending members penalized with preservation of original discussion (which is not even illegal to begin with).

* Note: as I said before, while I favor public discussions, I oppose the moderator board being accessible by members.

[Regular]

My Dad asked me to post this, though I didn't really want to. :/

He said back when he posted, he made some snarky replies that probably weren't necessary, but he found the attititude of some of the Moderators were overbearing and Draconian.

He added this screen shot to further what he said, as proof of too much power in the hand of the unwise (his words) is beyond the pale.

His ban from Talkgraphics occured immediately after a private message with a moderator and occured without explanation or email.