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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Web Designer change template possible

    Quote Originally Posted by ss-kalm View Post
    As far as I know there isn't a single product out there that can change your whole layout with the press of a button.
    Joomla

    And this is probably a better bet for anyone designing large sites as ,IMO, WD is targeted at the smaller site. A template based CMS solution (like Joomla) is a no-brainer for large sites. (There are various Joomla template managers, like Artisteer, that work very well, and are so easy to use, and where the graphics could be generated from within Xara/WD as required.)

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Web Designer change template possible

    Quote Originally Posted by GregWallis View Post
    Originally Posted by ss-kalm
    As far as I know there isn't a single product out there that can change your whole layout with the press of a button.
    Joomla
    Joomla is not a designing tool.
    John.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Web Designer change template possible

    True, but it allows a designed template to change the whole site instantly; that was my point. As above, I stated that the graphics could be made in Xara/WD, the template made in (for example) Artisteer (SO easily), and then changed instantly in Joomla.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Web Designer change template possible

    Yes, of course, but I presume that ss-kalm was talking about designer tools.
    John.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Web Designer change template possible

    Hi pcguy,

    I think it makes much more sense to avoid WYSIWYG HTML editors in your case.

    Beside Joomla, also Typo 3 and Wordpress offers the possibility to change a Template with one click.

    The difference between CMS and blog systems and WYSIWYG HTML editors is, that the CMS and blog systems are separating the content and the layout, so that you can insert thousands of pages full of content, but you need just one click to change your layout for all this pages.

    Most of the CMS and blog systems are also able to import your content from another CMS or blog system, so that you're able to migrate from one system to another. This is often not possible with WYSIWYG editors.

    Furthermore CMS systems offers the possibility to let your customers edit their content by themself without the danger that they are destroying your well thought out design.

    Remi
    Last edited by remi; 08 May 2009 at 10:12 PM.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Web Designer change template possible

    Quote Originally Posted by remi View Post
    Furthermore CMS systems offers the possibility to let your customers edit their content by themself without the danger that they are destroying your well thought out design.
    How can anyone destroy something that isn't there? (for people not familiar with smilies this means "a joke").

    CMS is what it's called - a content management system. It has nothing to do with design. It allows you to conveniently create and maintain your content, mostly textual, with minimum constrains on it's size and structural complexity. The resulting output in web CMS are the script generated HTML pages which represent this content in a visual form based on the layout information available.

    Think of it this way - in a CMS you enter and maintain the text, and all the rest - graphics, design, code is generated automatically, you don't have to worry about it.

    If you want to make your own design in CMS, you can customize templates but this is much harder task than creating a graphic site with typical web authoring tool (like Dreamweaver), never mind the XWD.

    So it's all about priorities. Look at this board - it has a design which you may spot on hundreds of other forums all over the web. But this is irrelevant since the essence of this site is it's content. Knowing how talented all the moderators and users on TG are one may wonder why it uses default template? The answer is trivial - because no one really cares. The design of this site really doesn't matter at all.

    So if you are about to create a site with tons of dynamically altered information, and neither you nor your visitors care a lot about it's unique design, you should go for CMS.
    But if your design is important and you don't have a tons of content, it's much better to go for XWD.

    Theoretically, you can use both CMS based content and XWD created design to embed it. But I'm not aware if someone had already created such a project.
    John.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Web Designer change template possible

    The design of a CMS or blog system is created from a Webdesigner and often added with some JavaScript functions/widgets and/or Flash from the Webdesigner himself or a Webdeveloper.

    The endusers are creating new pages with new content (including different content types like text, tables, images, videos, ...). And such systems are offering integrated WYSIWYG editors, of course, so that the enduser is able to see what he get. The endusers are often called "editors" in such environments.

    Often there is also an Administrator for the CMS or blog system (depends on the size of the company or other factors).

    So, this is a division of responsibilities.

    Using different templates for CMS or blog systems is very easy. For example, if you use Wordpress as a blog system (or a simple CMS), you can choose of thousands of available templates from a very big community and also commercial vendors. The same with most of the CMS systems.

    Creating your own template is also easy. There are a lot of tutorials available, which are teaching you how to create a new template or customize a given template.

    It depends on the Webdesigner and/or Webdeveloper, what kind of layout he is designing for his CMS or blog system. In the case of Wordpress there is a great website available, which shows the different layouts, talented Webdesigners were able to create. It's called We love WP. In the case of Typo3 I could recommend a lot of different websites, in order to see what's possible with this CMS, but I will limit it to a special website: The website from MAGIX (owner of Xara Ltd.). They show how to use Typo3 together with some flash content and a nice layout.

    Quote Originally Posted by covoxer View Post
    Theoretically, you can use both CMS based content and XWD created design to embed it. But I'm not aware if someone had already created such a project.
    I'm not sure if XWD is really useful in this case. The exported HTML from XWD works with absolute positionized content and unfortunately this is not the best approach with a CMS or blog system. I've seen your JavaScript based tweak you're offering as a workaround, but I if you look at templates of popular CMS and/or blog systems, you'll find more flexible layouts with variable lenghts and sometimes also variable widths.

    Remi

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Web Designer change template possible

    Quote Originally Posted by remi View Post
    The endusers are creating new pages with new content (including different content types like text, tables, images, videos, ...). And such systems are offering integrated WYSIWYG editors, of course, so that the enduser is able to see what he get. The endusers are often called "editors" in such environments.
    So, if the "end user" is an author of the site he has to hire the qualified "Webdesigner" to do the design. Or, alternatively, learn and create it on his own. This works great, except that it requires a lot of work.
    Often there is also an Administrator for the CMS or blog system (depends on the size of the company or other factors).
    Yes, you can't get away without administrating if the amount of content is large.
    So, this is a division of responsibilities.
    Perfect. But not efficient if you are not creating something large with a low budget. Otherwise, it's always better to hire a professional photographer to take pictures you need, professional designer to create site design, professional programmers to write code and professional administrators and SEO experts to maintain it. The result will be always better than doing everything on your own. But if you can't afford it, it will not work for you this way.
    Using different templates for CMS or blog systems is very easy.
    Absolutely easy. But creating new, unique templates is hard.
    Creating your own template is also easy.
    Saying that it's easy, you have to mention comparing to what. Of course it is easier than, for example, writing your own web server, but comparing to designer's tools it can't be called easy.
    There are a lot of tutorials available, which are teaching you how to create a new template or customize a given template.
    Yes there are a lot, but this doesn't change anything. It's much easier to create your design in Dreamweaver than the similarly looking template for CMS. And of course, it is much easier and faster to create a design in WD.
    It depends on the Webdesigner and/or Webdeveloper, what kind of layout he is designing for his CMS or blog system. In the case of Wordpress there is a great website available, which shows the different layouts, talented Webdesigners were able to create. It's called We love WP.
    So, does it mean that creating those templates was as easy as creating a site design in WD?
    In the case of Typo3 I could recommend a lot of different websites, in order to see what's possible with this CMS, but I will limit it to a special website: The website from MAGIX (owner of Xara Ltd.). They show how to use Typo3 together with some flash content and a nice layout.
    Yes, good example. Everyone who has the same budget for creating and maintaining website can do just the same.
    I've seen your JavaScript based tweak you're offering as a workaround, but I if you look at templates of popular CMS and/or blog systems, you'll find more flexible layouts with variable lenghts and sometimes also variable widths.
    Yes, of course. This approach is not very flexible from the content layout point of view. But the use of the CMS templates is just as inflexible from the design point of view. Though I'm not sure if any non professional CMS users ever care about the design, the choice of existing templates is usually enough.
    John.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Web Designer change template possible

    On the other side the drawback of WYSIWYG HTML editors is, that they don't offer content management functions, like the CMS or blog systems are doing. As we have discussed in this thread so far, this is problematic, whenever you have a website with a lot of pages and would like to change your layout. With a WYSIWYG editor, you have to start from the beginning in this case.

    The best would be, if we would be able to use Xara Xtreme or XWD for rapid prototyping, but without the current absolute positionize approach. If this would be possible, than one could use the exported HTML in order to convert it into a new template for his CMS or blog system. I would say, just in the moment this is too much work because of the mentioned absolute positionize approach and therefore counterproductive.

    Remi
    Last edited by remi; 09 May 2009 at 02:20 PM.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Web Designer change template possible

    You mean you want a WYSIWYG CMS template generator?
    John.

 

 

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