Where's the HTML and where's the structure?

[w00dy]

What about the end user... Joe Public sat in front of his PC... all he cares about is his user experience. 99% of Joe's don't even know what "View Source" is and the 1% that do, likely can't make head nor tail of what they are seeing.

[remi]

But Ron, I and other "died-in-the-wool" experts are not such kind of end users!

We would like to use this product also, but we cannot without changes.

Remi

[Xhris]

We would like to use this product also, but we cannot without changes.

Yes I touched upon the problems associated with change in the other thread. I fully understand that most coders aren't against WD as a product, they're just disgruntled that the approach is different to the set-in-stone ways of old, and the more ludditic people are, the more hostile they are to change. Valid points can be made however, but they aren't being made effectively at the moment.

[remi]

...they're just disgruntled that the approach is different to the set-in-stone ways of old, and the more ludditic people are, the more hostile they are to change.

Sorry Xhris, but you should start to change your thinking in narrow-minded categories. What we are discussing here is not the "set-in-stone" way, instead we are talking about the modern way of creating semantically meaningful HTML. If you're not aware of this principles, you can try a search within Wikipedia.

In the end, Xara Web Designer is just a canvas with some object creation methods and an HTML export filter. But this will not sell well, therefore Xara's marketing is trying to sell the story of "the new way". If they think it's necessary, ok - I will not say a further word about this. But if you or other members are trying to tell me, the generated HTML code (and this is, what this thread is about) is also the ultimate result of "the new way" and all the other code is "old-fashioned", then that's simply wrong and you don't know what you're talking about.

Oh dear...

Remi

[covoxer]

Wow, wow! To not let the holly war begin again, let me put things straight.

1. WD is a new way of creating web sites, but this is not the only possible way to do it.

2. Remi, please read carefully our advertising. It says that we position WD as a tool to create complete web sites for unexperienced designers. For experts, like you, we merely propose to use it as a rapid prototyping tool. So none of your criticism is on place. Althought, all the propositions and whishes are wellcome.

3. The code produced by WD is fully W3C compliant. All the guidelines mentioned in this thread are not mandatory. Some web designers are getting things wrong and give those recomendations more importance than to mandatory standard compliance. But the truth is, that valid "soup of divs" is better than invalid "pure code", which many guideline following professionals produce.

4. Every program in this world has limited functionality. So the WD has. And we realize it clearly. It will be developed in future releases, but how and when no one knows yet.

5. I think I have clearly and extensively answered the original questions raised in the first post of this thread so I see no point in contributing to this looping debate any more. I suggest everyone to join me. After all, every human being in this world have absolute right to create their html files the way they like the most. There's no universaly best way - everyone has his own best way. So let's stop fighting about it.

'nuf said.


PS Oh, and one more thing - think of it, if WD could do the work of professional designers, would it have thi low price?

[ckh]

A problem I see that I don't think was mentioned is that a lot of sites use php for dynamic content.

WD output for this is a nightmare for trying to add any dynamic content.

[remi]

John, I agree, that we disagree - with regard to your exported HTML code from Xara Webdesigner.

Remi

[aridzone]

[QUOTE]PS Oh, and one more thing - think of it, if WD could do the work of professional designers, would it have thi low price?/QUOTE]

This program CAN do the work of professional designers!
It can also do things professional designers only dream about
This is an amazing addition to the XARA family - I congradulate all of you!
I think professional designers are and will be very envyous of us!

[pbready]

[QUOTE=aridzone;292475]

PS Oh, and one more thing - think of it, if WD could do the work of professional designers, would it have thi low price?/QUOTE]

This program CAN do the work of professional designers!
It can also do things professional designers only dream about
This is an amazing addition to the XARA family - I congradulate all of you!
I think professional designers are and will be very envyous of us!

I'd tend to agree. The html code purists make me think of early high level language compilers where assembler programmers would complain about unoptimised generated machine code that they'd want to manually optimise - kind of missed the point IMO (I'm that old that even this IT terminology will fly over the head of many reading this).

WD is an easy to use WYSIWYG web page generator and not designed to be a structured HTML code generator. Maybe you'll have to wait for WDPro (or WDanal ;-)) for that...

Time to close this thread?

[Improv]

[QUOTE=pbready;292487]

I'd tend to agree. The html code purists make me think of early high level language compilers where assembler programmers would complain about unoptimised generated machine code that they'd want to manually optimise - kind of missed the point IMO (I'm that old that even this IT terminology will fly over the head of many reading this).

They remind me of the old computer luddites that insist that everything needs to still be done on a dos/unix command line. HELLO!!! Most computer users could care less and are perfectly happy and productive using a gui to get their work done. The world is changing, get used to it!

Time to close this thread?

Totally agreed. How many times are they going to repeat the fact that they don't like WD? Hint: If you don't like it, don't use it, use another product.