Xara Xtreme Pro announced

[Nostaw]

Lets say you are a full time graphic designer and Xara is one
of your main tools. And let's assume you make $40.000 per year.
You paid for Xara PRO $199.
--- thats 0.49% per year of your income - less than 1 percent! ---

CS2 full version including 5 Applications (AI PSD PDF INDD GOLIVE)
is about $1750,
--- that's 4.37% of your income, about 0,87% per application---

Overview:
0.49% of your income for XaraPro
4.37% of your income for Adobe CS2

(taken from another thread)

[MarkMyWords]

To be honest I put Adobe products at the bottom of my shopping list, not because I can't afford them, but because I believe they are profiteering and I don't want to reward that kind of practice.

$199 seems very reasonable to me (especially if pro is more stable!), but I wont be buying because pro doesn't suit my needs as well as other software does.

When you see a piece of software that is so good, but is lacking one big ingredient (from a personal point of view) it is very tempting to just demand the things you want are added. Of course that is not the way things work, so we bite the bullet and take second best.

I've looked at lots of software and despite all it's faults and my own feelings about Adobe, I'm going to have to go with Illustrator for my next buy.

[pauland]

I'm going to have to go with Illustrator for my next buy.

For what specific reasons/features?

[MarkMyWords]

Number one for me has got to be actions, I really like the live paint feature too, but that could be 'emulated' (kind of) in Xara with work arounds.

I have built my workflow around actions and it would be a tremendous change and step backwards for me to try and do without them. I use Actions to set up workspaces for various tasks, format complex custom templates (I often need to switch several layers between different formats too -something else I use actions for), carrying out complex photoshop techniques with a single click, speed up the boring and repetitive stuff that comes with most jobs and generally save time.

After playing with Xtreme and studying many tutorials I can see A; what a wonderful piece of software this is (too many crashes, but that seems to be something that may be fixed), I really do like it and B; many of the tools techniques (like flood fill or masking, for instance) I am looking for can be emulated with work arounds in Xtreme, which would be fine if those work arounds and various other often used and repetitive tasks could be automated.

Call me lazy, call me spoiled, but I go with whatever will do the job my way, as easily as possible.

[fjgaude]

Xara Xtreme Pro moves into the domain of replacing Illustrator and InDesign. Congratulations for moving in that direction, and at a price with which you can still move ahead with even more enhancements. Thank you.

frank

[Parris]

Okay I have to put my two cents in(sorry, maybe more than two cents) and I really hope that Xara reads this one because what I have to say is about the bottom line (sales). Fans of Xtreme in this forum, if you really want to help this product succeed, you won't be so quick to discount the complaints about price. Consider this, Adobe's Creative Suite (full version) goes for $899 while Corel Draw Graphics Suite is far less at $379. Now you can argue feature set and it's a little like comparing apples and oranges, but the most significant reason for the price difference is that Corel understands it's current position in the marketplace. They need to broaden their customer base and they know their profits will be greater selling more units at the lower price. Granted, I don't know how Xtreme is doing worldwide, but here in the States far too many digital artists (pro or hobbyists) have never even heard of Xara. And that's a problem. I would speculate that Xtreme (as nifty as it is) is not yet in the same market position as Corel Draw or even where Macromedia Freehand was. Xtreme (regardless of speed, clean interface, fabulous handling of variable trans. etc.) is out there with Serif DrawPlus($100), Intaglio($89), Zone Draw 5($50), PhotoLine 32 (59 Euro) and the like( Don't get upset Xtreme fans, I'm just talking about position in the marketplace, not quality). So I think Xara was wise to price Xtreme the way they did. Good pricing isn't just about feature set, or even ease of use. $79 has a very pronounced WOW factor when you see what the program can do. You need that WOW factor to grab the attention of strangers, get them to not only buy the product but tell their friends about it. Word of mouth is extremely important for a product like Xtreme (no pun intended) and no less so for Xtreme Pro.

Argueing the actual dollar value of Xtreme Pro features, comparing the cost of upgrading to Xtreme Pro over Illustrator, or calculating the cost per day if you had Xtreme for a year is missing the big picture. Here's what I mean: If you have a labeled price for a bucket of perfect delicious apples, you don't expect to pay more than twice the price to have a few more delicious apples added to the bucket. Call it Pro or an upgrade and argue the expense of implementing the new features all you want, it won't change this perception for the average consumer(Pro or non Pro). Adobe knows this. So does Corel and a lot of other pro level software makers. To see what I mean, compare the % value of their Upgrade price to the full price item:

Adobe Creative Suite - $899, Upgrade $349 = 38.8%
Illustrator CS2 $499, Upgrade $169 = 33.8%
Freehand MX - $399, Upgrade $99 = 24.8%
Corel Draw Graphics Suite - $379, Upgrade $169 = 44.5%
Photoshop - $649, Upgrade $169 = 26%
Carrara 5 - $249 Upgrade $99 = 39.7%

In all cases the products reflect significant improvements for professionals and hobbyists, yet the upgrade price is less than half the full price. Xara Xtreme Pro - $199, Upgrade $120 = 60%

As for the "Pro" label, I see much more weighty additions in the Pro versions I'm familiar with. Carrara 5 Pro and Vue 5 Pro boast dozens of important features not included(or needed) in their Standard version counterparts. Since I'm on the subject of features, I'd like to say a little about how they appeal to me as a professional. The overall goal here, for me (and one that would warrant the upgrade purchase) would be to replace Illustrator CS in my daily tool set. So...

• Flash animation - Sorry, as other folks have said. I have other Flash tools that are more advanced.
• Multi-page support - I can already do this with page tiling and output to Multipage PDF via CutePDF Writer (free utility)
• Enhanced Text tool - Great, important
• Photoshop PSD import and export - also important
• PDF/X support and many PDF export improvements - Never had a need for PDF/X or extended PDF options, but maybe time would tell
• Color Separations - Great
• Pantone spot and process colors - Great
• Levels control for XPE - Would rather use Photoshop
• Short-cut key configuration utility - This is the single most important improvement to me because it would greatly improve workflow without having to memorize a new command set.

But here's something that really kind of bothers me: Charles Moir said "Xortcuts is a utility that was created and donated to us from Rubem, as a result of a thread of TG forum some months ago about short-cuts. It's his code and product really - we just told him what the config files were to modify the short-cut settings." If rubem offered to donate this in the TG forum and in fact did donate this feature so that we could all have this improvement, and if it required no work from Xara then why do we have to pay $120 to get it. I think it should be offered as a free update for Xtreme. I would also be quite happy to pay rubem or Xara a reasonable price for the utility. But why do we need to wait for Xtreme Pro when the utility is already a done deal?

To sum up what I'm saying in this post, I would not argue with those who feel Xtreme Pro is worth the price or more, for that matter. I just believe very firmly that a lower, more market conscious price for both the full version and upgrade will yield more profit (by selling many more units) and help Xara develop a broader user base.

[pauland]

Interesting stuff Parris, but it's not a view I or many others share.

In the professional world, I don't think that the price is as sensitive as you would have us believe, nor is it as sensitive in the hobbyist world either. I think that Xara have come to realise this, as well as the danger that underfunding development at the lower price point might endanger their professional following as rival product continues to be developed. I think the pantone features was particularly a problem in some circles.

I think they have it right. At $200 I still think Xara software is comparatively cheap software (though I am now hoping for great things in the future).

[Nostaw]

Parris, quite interesting to read your thoughts. I agree with some things you say, but I don't see XtremePRO in the same Product line as Xtreme because I see the features in PRO aimed for different audiences, but that's just me. Compared to similar products, there is no Illustrator and IllustratorPRO, but yet Xara broke the rules we have been used to. Strangely, you can upgrade which shouldn't be possible in the first place really because I don't see it as an upgrade, rather than a new product line. An alternative could have been, no upgrade is possible, but the XaraPro for $99 - but i hear people already complaining about that too.

A full time illustrator would never need XtremePRO, a full time DTP person won't need illustration features - but yet we have it, and its called XaraPRO, so we should accept this new pricing sheme as it can't be compared to anything else out there.

Will new customers accept this pricing of $199? - No idea, it will be hard but only time can tell.

Honestly, anyone who works for years in Graphic Design using Illustrator and CS2 couldn't care less about any other product, i see it at my friends who are just too lazy and settled in their software pipeline and not willing to learn anything new, even if some tasks are way easier - but that's another topic.

[Soquili]

Some of the newer members may be interested in the prices of the Xara X series of programs.

2000 - Xara X retail $149 USD
2004 - Xara X¹ retail $189 USD
2005 - Xara Xtreme retail $89 USD
2006/7 (depends on release of retail version) Xara Xtreme Pro $199 USD

I've upgraded with each new version and will upgrade to Xtreme Pro when it is available to purchase (I try at least once a day ).

I'm a hobbiest in the graphics world. Xara's products work the most logical of any programs I use. FYI: I use Photoshop 7 & CS, Illustrator 10, Paint Shop Pro versions 6 through 8.1 and I have used the trial versions of Freehand and CorelDraw. I also use Cinema4D 9, Maya 5, and TrueSpace 4 for 3D graphics.

[Parris]

pauland, thanks for reading. But when you say " it's not a view I or many others share" , I assume you mean posters to this forum and not the world abroad. I'm sure that would be true in that case, since most posters are fans, even the ones who are asking for more ( me too to some degree).

I agree $200 is comparatively cheap software when compared to Illustrator or Corel Draw but at $200 Xtreme Pro will be the most expensive in it's weight class (again I'm talking market share not feature/value).

If I were still working for a company, rather than freelancing, my bosses would have asked me why I need another vector drawing program besides Illustrator. I still would have to give them a good answer, even though it's only $200 dollars. To be truely competitive with Illustrator and attract pros who likely already own Illy or similar, with all Adobe's Marketing advantage, Xara would have to match Illy feature for feature (at least most of the important ones) and then offer the full version for close to the same price as Adobe's upgrade. Then when it comes time to either upgrade or change apps it's a no brainer. Those who know about Xtreme Pro would choose it hands down because of faster redraw, better variable trans., etc.

You need a good answer to this question: Why should a current Illustrator owner choose Xtreme Pro over just upgrading their Illustrator license?*Good for you Soquili for answering this somewhat already. Logic is a very good argument.