Can I say how much I hate.. ?

[Soquili]

DukeofThomas, it is obvious that your own opinions are very set and are also very important to you.

I am not trying to dissuade you from you opinions, only trying to point out that they are different from mine and other people.

Everyone has a right to have their own opinions. I cannot say yours are right or wrong, only different from mine.

Previously in another post you mentioned you do not have programming experience. I do have experience as a programmer (software developer to differentiate from other types of programming).

Even simple changes require a very thorough examination before they can be implemented in a functioning code base. They must be approved by many people involved with the project.

Design of an interface requires code to support it. Changes in that code requires integration into the other code within the same project.

You cannot change design independent of the code.

[DukeofThomas]

As I said before in another thread, you are using an old piece of software (from 2004).

Well, I bought it about a month ago because Xara offered it for a bargain price. I'm not going to upgrade to Xtreme when I don't need to, just for that one fix.

[DukeofThomas]

DukeofThomas, it is obvious that your own opinions are very set and are also very important to you.

I am not trying to dissuade you from you opinions, only trying to point out that they are different from mine and other people.

Everyone has a right to have their own opinions. I cannot say yours are right or wrong, only different from mine.

Previously in another post you mentioned you do not have programming experience. I do have experience as a programmer (software developer to differentiate from other types of programming).

Even simple changes require a very thorough examination before they can be implemented in a functioning code base. They must be approved by many people involved with the project.

Yes, I know that.

Design of an interface requires code to support it. Changes in that code requires integration into the other code within the same project.

Yes, but isn't it easy to change, for example, the colour of a button? Like, REALLY easy? The interface accepts input from the user. If the inputs are the same, but all we are changing is the interface, then I understand that you have to recode the interface (it doesn't happen by magic), but since the values that are being fed back to the program are the same, where is the big problem? If I want a set of up/down arrows moved to a different screen location, made bigger, their colour changed, etc. they still only send one value back to the program, 'up', or 'down'. Plus or minus. No change there. No need to integrate any of that with the already existing code. Only the interface part of the code has to be changed.

You cannot change design independent of the code.

Well, not the interface code, I agree.

[remi]

Well, I bought it about a month ago because Xara offered it for a bargain price. I'm not going to upgrade to Xtreme when I don't need to, just for that one fix.

So, as I said before, keep cool and sit down with a cup of tea and create a nice drawing with Xara X1/Xtreme...

And please consider: This is a friendly forum and you are far away from being friendly...

[DukeofThomas]

I disagree vehemently but I'm not about to waste any time arguing with you since you are clearly not interested in anybody else's opinion but your own. You have forgotten that it is merely your opinion, not an unassailable truth.

Well actually, you can call it a 'truth' by simply testing the two different options on a few thousand people who have never used either option before. Or ten thousand - the more the better. Then you'll find which option is the best. There IS a best way of doing things. It's the way that the MAJORITY of people want it to be done. That is 'normality'. It's highly unlikely to be the least efficient of the two methods. I also don't think for one minute that he was "clearly not interested in anybody else's opinion but (his) own"...
The attitudes visible on this board are exactly why we are still even having discussions about user interface design: some of the people who make the decisions on user interfaces are just like us - some think this way is best, some think that they should ask as many people as possible and find out WHY one method works better for the majority...

[DukeofThomas]

So, as I said before, keep cool and sit down with a cup of tea and create a nice drawing with Xara X1/Xtreme...

And please consider: This is a friendly forum and you are far away from being friendly...

I'm quite cool, Remi...
The problem is that other people attribute what they think THEY would be feeling if they wrote things in as black and white a fashion as I do - I feel quite happy and am enjoying the discussion. If others can't face people disagreeing with them, then we may as well just silence all dissent and tell all programmers to quit trying to improve any programs that currently exist.

Did you see the 'Save' graphic that suggested I go away? How offensive was that? Yet nothing was said... It didn't bother me in the slightest. If I had done the same to any of your members, what would you have said about it?

[remi]

btw: How is the weather in your country?

[Availor]

btw: How is the weather in your country?

LOL

[DukeofThomas]

Duke of Thomas, are you able to explain me the following: If you have no programming experience, how could it be, that you know, that programming a user interface is REALLY easy to do?

Because the code that makes the user interface is already contained in the Operating System. All you need to do is call it.
And because it's DESIGN, that's why.
Are you suggesting that the reason we have bad user interfaces is because it's difficult to program a good one, rather than to DESIGN a good one?
I know it's possible to put two arrows over here, then make them bigger, then make sure there's no 'dead space' between them. I know it's possible to make sliders bigger so they are easier to grab with your mouse. I know these things are easy because they are tiny amounts of static pixels, and my PC can shift millions of them when playing Painkiller, which is about a thousand times more advanced. I know it's easy because all of the things that need changing in the user interface are simply a matter of moving things to different locations, making things visible that are unnecessarily hidden, and changing the specific wording used. It's as simple as that. I also know how easy it is because I've used DOS programs that were fast and efficient, and then watched them get ported to Windows and become slow and awful to use, because of bad design, nothing else.

I know, what you're talking about by people who aren't easy to convinced. But I wouldn't call your manager a "idiot", like you do. You has to convince your manager and if you're not successful, you has to work on your argumentation (style). It's important for you, to learn something about this. Don't you think so?

I wouldn't call my manager an idiot, but if a customer of mine couldn't use my website because I'd designed it badly, then I'd WANT him to call me an idiot, so I shift my butt and fix the problem. Some of us just aren't so touchy about these things... All I see is the interface, not who designed it. When I ask my friends about my website's design, they know they can tell me whatever they feel - what use is it asking them if they have to pretend it's great even when it isn't? That's a bit like the feeling I'm getting here: no criticism is allowed.

[pauland]

If most people here are like me, they enjoy a debate and continual lectures prove tiresome. I'm here to learn new things and discuss with others - not get battered with someone's self-centered philosophy in post after post. It's getting to be a PIA to read the posts here.