Size error?

**jen0dorf** · 26 March 2006, 10:58 AM

HI

The learning curve is getting steeper!.

I have a graphic attached which in windows explorer shows up as 500*332

If I drag it into Xara it shows up as 160*106

What am I missing

thanks

Ian

**Charles Moir** · 26 March 2006, 11:15 AM

Whatever created this jpg image (Nikon D100 via Photoshop it seems) has created this as a 300 dpi image (you can see this by doing a Properties on it in Explorer).

So Xara Xtreme correctly imports it as a 300 dpi image. In Xara you can see on the status line that it says this is a 300 dpi image. (And a 300 dpi image that is 500 pixels wide should be shown as 1.6 inches wide, which Xara gets correct, but most others do not)

Explorer preview (and many other packages) simply ignore the dpi setting and show the image at 1:1 (96dpi) always, which is a bug in their software.

However because so many people are used to this and expect JPG image to be shown at 1:1 at 96dpi we are going to bodge future versions of Xtreme to ignore the dpi of photos and always load them at 1:1 96dpi irrespective of their internal dpi setting. This is technically wrong of course, but so many other people now get this wrong that it's the expected behaviour.

The easiest way to view this image at 1:1 is, knowing it's really a 500 pixel image, is to type 500pix into the object's width field on the Selector Infobar. This makes it 500 pixels wide and you'll see the status line will now report this is a 96dpi image. It will now appear at the same size as other programs such as Windows Picture Viewer.

**jen0dorf** · 26 March 2006, 11:34 AM

Hi

Thanks, I think I understand time will tell

cheers

Ian

**Cappbill** · 26 March 2006, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by Charles Moir

Whatever created this jpg image (Nikon D100 via Photoshop it seems) has created this as a 300 dpi image (you can see this by doing a Properties on it in Explorer).
So Xara Xtreme correctly imports it as a 300 dpi image. In Xara you can see on the status line that it says this is a 300 dpi image. (And a 300 dpi image that is 500 pixels wide should be shown as 1.6 inches wide, which Xara gets correct, but most others do not)
.

I am puzzled.
My jpgs from a digital camera are 1600x1200, 300dpi images, 5.333x4.00 inches.
When I open/drag/or import.XaraXtreme opens them as 96dpi.(as shown on the status line). The Selector Infobar shows 1600 x1200 pixels, or when the units are changed to inches, 16.667 x 12.5 inches.
The Bitmap Gallery shows 1600x1200 pixels, 24bit, 96dpi, 652kb.
To get the 300dpi image I have to change the dimensions in the objects width and height fields to 5.333 x 4.0 inches.

Why does XaraXtreme open at 96dpi and not correctly at the original 300dpi?

BIll

**Egg Bramhill** · 26 March 2006, 03:31 PM

Bill
dpi is only relevant in print, not monitor display.The only thing that's important for a computer monitor is the pixel size.

Why does XaraXtreme open at 96dpi and not correctly at the original 300dpi?

This is what Charles is trying to explain above. Your photo is 1600x1200 pixels. At 96dpi (standard PC screen resolution) this relates to a 16.6" x 12.5" image. This is how Xara displays the photo.

To get the 300dpi image I have to change the dimensions in the objects width and height fields to 5.333 x 4.0 inches.

By reducing the on screen physical size to 5.333" x 4.0" you are not getting a 300dpi image, your just reducing the pixel width from 1600 pixels to 512 pixels / pixel height from 1200 pixels to 384 pixels, but it is still displayed at 96 dpi on the monitor.

Egg

**Charles Moir** · 26 March 2006, 03:45 PM

Cappbill, you're right and the whole area is a mess.

Its seems that there is some subtle difference in the internal JPEG storage. I believe (but I might be wrong) that it's something like the inch dimensions are being used (also stored in the JPEG if I'm correct) and that some cameras store a dpi that does not match the inch dimensions, some have both that match. We're aware that JPGs from different cameras behave differently and they all contain different DPI settings.

And why a camera would want to pretend images are 300 dpi is another mystery. I guess it has to pick some value from thin air because obviously JPGs in cameras don't have dimensions (other than pixels) so it's a meaningless measure. I have cameras that store values of 72dpi, 180dpi and 300dpi.

So this is all good reason why we should change our behaviour to assume 96dpi for all images no matter what dimensions or dpi settings they have in the file.

**Cappbill** · 26 March 2006, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by Charles Moir

Cappbill, you're right and the whole area is a mess.
We're aware that JPGs from different cameras behave differently and they all contain different DPI settings.

Many many, thanks for your reply
That clears my mind and I now fully understand why jenOdorf's 300dpi image and my 300dpi image open differently in Xtreme.
I see jenOdorf's camera is from the same manufacturer as mine so the discrepancy is not only between different manufacturers but with different models from the same manufacturer.

Bill

**RedWombat** · 26 March 2006, 04:46 PM

Why don't you dump the whole inches thing, working with the native print resolution etc, and give users the option of selecting the dpi upon import?

Print and web designers would have options at their finger tips. A print designer might select 300dpi and Xtreme would scale the image correctly. A web designer might want 96dpi and the image would scale correctly.

You could even allow for dimensions to be selected and have the application put the image in both correct print size and resolution. Of course locking the aspect ratio would help keep it proportional

What do you think Charles?

**Daniel** · 26 March 2006, 05:54 PM

I understand the relationship between resolution and pixel size, and appreciate that Xara X imports things correctly even where others don't, but there is an inconsistency when pasting into the application.

Take this image - it started life as a 2592x1728 at 96dpi photo on my Sony DSC-P92. It imports into Xara X just fine, my camera must flag the resolution as 96dpi because Windows and Xara report the same pixel size.

http://diniel.com/forums/thamesbarrier.jpg

I resize to 600x400 and export as a JPEG. I can re-import into Xara and it's fine: still 600x400 at 96dpi.

Upload it to a website though (or even, just view locally in a web browser - both IE6 and Firefox 1.5), right click the picture and copy it, then go to Xara X and paste, I get a 192dpi image at 300x200. Look in the bitmap gallery and the correct size/resolution is reported: 600x400 at 96dpi.

I'm sure this is a bug in Xara's pasting because if and do a CTRL+SHIFT+I and paste in the URL (http://diniel.com/forums/thamesbarrier.jpg), the image imports just fine. Copy/paste the image itself though and the resolution goes wrong. This seems to happen for all pastes from a web browser, but I'm using this as an example because the bitmap originated from an Xara X export.

**Egg Bramhill** · 26 March 2006, 06:08 PM

Daniel
Are you sure your not getting confused between the paste methods.
If I copy then paste into Xara I get the option Paste Special, with two options.

If I choose 'Device Independant Bitmap' the image pastes in at 300 x 200 pixel 192dpi bitmap.

However of I choose 'Bitmap' the image pastes in correctly at 600 x 400 96dpi bitmap.

For this reason I always choose 'Bitmap' as the import option.

Here's what the help file states (not very helpful tho):

Paste Special Dialog Box

If when you Paste with data on the clipboard from another application and there is more than one format that the data could be transferred as, the Paste Special dialog box will appear giving you a chance to choose the specific format that you require Xara Xtreme to import. The highlighted format (always the top item in the list) is the one which is considered the "best" format to paste.

Egg