The death of the discussion

[jens g.r. benthien]

believe it or not, I don't need to switch between Xara X and Illustrator etc. It doesn't bother me at all to learn different keyboard shortcuts. Just imagine the CAD world would be forced to implement the graphics keyboard shortcuts. Or what about this: the graphics world should implement the CAD keyboard shortcuts.

A carpenter needs to learn different tricks than a layman or an accountant. So where is the smallest common denominator?

I grew up with Xara for 8 (?) years now. For me a change in keyboard shortcuts would mean to re-learn one of my best tools. Doesn't make sense to me.

Before you ask Xara to implement the 'industry standard', pls try to convince CATIA, Rhino, Ashlar Vellum, AutoDesk (AutoCAD), Maya, Lightwave, Soft F/X, Softimage etc to modify their applications accordingly... Then we can start to think about a 'standard'. Until this will happen I'll enjoy my apps as they are and produce results. And just in case I don't remember a shortcut there is always an icon to click on to trigger the desired action.

Finally: a hammer works and behaves differently than a screwdriver. And a normal car features an automatic transmission and not a 5 speed plus 2 on and off road transmissions like my truck. To be honest: I don't want an automatic transmission in my truck because the 5 x 2 = 10 different transmission options keep me going EVERYWHERE I WANT TO.

BTW, there isn't even a standard for seat belt locks, a feature that would be much more important for frequent travelers than kinky shortcuts. There is a life off the computer as well ;-}

jens g.r. benthien
designer
http://www.sacalobra.de

----------//--
If you don't know how to dream you'll never be a designer.
----------//--

[AjIsCoool]

I agree with my teacher Gary ( Gary did to a lot of us a big favor)
But i have to disagree a little with him, regarding Corel issue

I love XaraX, but it does not mean i don't use others, corel is one of them

There is a lot of features that can be found in corel that it will take a lot of workaround in Xara, and the opsite is the same, but has more more features


You glass button tutorial it is much easier in Coreldraw and it can be animated nicely by using the Lenses instead of faking the backround illusion, i hope my English is under stood [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

CorelRave is a killer, i will post some tutorial showing how easy to produce a nice effects for the web in no time (swf formats)

PhotoPaint is my favorite photoediting application that has a powerfull features in version 6 that adobe photoshop is achieved in it is leates version 7

Those alone Gray in the CorelDraw suite make it very powerfull

As i said before XaraX is the better in Brushes, Tools intreactivity, Anitalising, and Mixing Effects together, and Bevel tools....

Corel Lenses, Distroting, Grids and Guidline, layers, nodes editting,Basic shapes, Extruding,BitmapEffects,Corel Rave,Corel Photpaint....
And mostly a new version is out, this make us feel good, but Xarax makes us feel in doubt of the feature of it's support

Sorry Master it is only my humble opinion [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Note: Illustrator 10 has a cool effects and features i am trying to review soon

[Egg Bramhill]

The whole of this thread is pure speculation. I don't know anymore than any other member, so I'm not going to speculate. In general I agree with Jens, the program does more than I wish and I'm not champing at the bit for new additions. I would love a bug fix on the animation background bug and please, please, please give us a decent small font definition on export to raster, not only in XaraX but all Xara products.
As for keyboard short cuts I don't use them alot unless I'm cropping shapes in an animation file. I would hate it if Xara adopted an 'Indusrty Standard' shortcut key system. Xara is my number one program by choice. I use it even for word processing, not because it's better than a word processor (which it obviously is'nt) but because I know the program inside out as well as it's limitations. I don't even require a full blown W/P's like Word, with all it's bloat, to do a 2 page set of minutes etc.
Surely if shortcuts need to be altered, then let the end user have the choice.i.e. Default / Industry Standard (whatever that might mean) / or user configurable.
Egg

[Sheff]

I use Xara almost exclusively, but I need it to work better with other programs. Lets face it, with Xara's marketing plan they will never become industry standard. They need to capitulate.

I need Xara to do the basic things that other programs do. I would like industry standard shortcut keys. Hey, I've got a better idea, LET US PROGRAM OUR OWN SHORTCUT KEYS.

I often create multiple pages by using layers. I think it wouldn't be much of a stretch to add multiple page functionality. The ability to print all individual layers would be nice.

My clients and I also like to print much of what I create in Xara. It would be nice to not have to use another program to convert Tiff output to CMYK. The need to print has not yet been eliminated by the internet.

I've asked for a slew of very basic feature additions like these and some that are really wish list items. I don't think that is an impossible task for the team at Xara given the 2+ years they've had to work on it.

I doubt Xara will ever come to the Mac but if it did I would jump ship. I am tired of dealing with Windows headaches. Xara is the only reason I still use a PC.

There are reasons industry standards exist. Xara by being the oddball is not doing itself any favors or increasing its user base.

I've been asked by one of my clients not to use Xara and not to deliver them Xara files.

I hate that. If Xara doesn't step up and stop aiming for that "hobbyist" designer market, I will jump ship when I have no other choice and use an "industry standard" program because, I'm tired of increasing my workload. Not only do I have to do the design job, but I also have to take into consideration THE TIME I HAVE TO SPEND ON XARA WORKAROUNDS to deliver a file my clients can use.

I love Xara. It works and well, but it's getting long in the tooth and it's costing me more to use it than to avoid using it all together.

Again, would hate to have to repeat again what I've said here in another thread with the same subject six months from now.

Sheffield Abella
sheff@sheff.com
www.sheff.com

[diniel]

Sheffield, you got me thinking - there's nothing I do on my PC which I couldn't do on a Mac either - except use Xara.

I use Dreamweaver and Fireworks MX, Office XP, Internet Explorer, Netscape and MSN Messenger daily. Anything else is just shareware apps to organise images, or software drivers for scanners, cameras and printers.

It had never occured to me before that I might be able to use a Mac. I feel a general repulsion to Macs though, for reasons I can't explain. The dislike I have of a Mac must be in my genes, but since I had a similar (but much stronger) dislike of the PC while I used the Acorn Archimedes series of computers ten years ago - and I overcame that.

Next time I'm in a computer shop, I might not just breeze past the Macs as I have always done. Come to think of it, I quite like that gel look....

[jens g.r. benthien]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I often create multiple pages by using layers. I think it wouldn't be much of a stretch to add multiple page functionality. The ability to print all individual layers would be nice. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's simple: just lock and turn the unwanted layers invisible or select 'only visible' in the print options.

As I said: no one of you ever discovered ALL features in XARA X.

jens g.r. benthien
designer
http://www.sacalobra.de

----------//--
If you don't know how to dream you'll never be a designer.
----------//--

[jens g.r. benthien]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The dislike I have of a Mac must be in my genes, but since I had a similar (but much stronger) dislike of the PC while I used the Acorn Archimedes series of computers ten years ago - and I overcame that.

Next time I'm in a computer shop, I might not just breeze past the Macs as I have always done. Come to think of it, I quite like that gel look....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Acorn was - and still **is** - a wonderful machine with its RISC OS. Just imagine: a full blown OS with a graphical user interface in an eprom - size around a mere 2 megabytes!!!

But I think you've missed the right job if you base your computer purchasing on a gel look - hell, times are gettin' lousier every day <sigh>

jens g.r. benthien
designer
http://www.sacalobra.de

----------//--
If you don't know how to dream you'll never be a designer.
----------//--

[ED]

Typical user says...
I want, want, need, please fix, how about, this would be cool, why can't I... and on and on...

Xara Developers would say...
sure but, but wait, yea but, hold on a minute, are you sure, if we did you'd, we can't because it, and so on....

Now... lets imagine everyone got everything added that they wanted and Xara COULD do it.

OK... think about HOW they would have to do it. Where are you going to add all these wonderful features/requests? What would we really have then?

Let me guess... bloated menus, multi level menus opening menues with arrows to open other menus to find additional sub/sub/sub menus. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif[/img])

Or even popups poping up over other popus to go deeper into other popups with advanced dialog boxes with scrolling tabs leading to more popups to find what your looking for. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif[/img])

By now you should see my point, and to be honest this would be a GREAT way to ruin a wonderful program. Can you think of other examples of this?

For you long diehard users like Gary and a hand full of the others. You surely must recall the time when Xara was fixing bugs and by doing so was breaking other parts of the program. I remember this myself very well.

It's a delicate thing (this XaraX program), very delicate, so by messing with it you might not like the outcome. You might not like the added complexity. You might not like to reduction in performance. You might not like loosing the induitive, well designed menus you've grown accustomed to.

You might find yourself saying... why did they change the way it was? It's sure to happen. It must happen and it will happen if they listen to all the users.

Are you sure you wnat that kind of upgrade?

Now stepping down from soap box... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif[/img])

The BEST is good enough!

[Sheff]

I said that I use layers as a substitute for multiple pages.

I DO turn each one on and off to print my documents.

It's a hassle to have to turn on and off 50+ layers.

When I OLE a Xara document into Power Point, it looks like hell when I print. So, I'm better off printing from Xara.

You're never going to get me to admit that Xara will be better off without multiple pages.

Maybe I haven't discovered everything Xara can do, but I know how to make it do what I need and I know there's an easier way.

And Christ can we stop complaining about bloat?

I said this a long time ago; Xara has two factions it needs to satisfy. People who need more robust desktop publishing functionality and people who need web animation.

Break Xara into 2 separate programs one for print and one for web. Xara can avoid bloat and can potentially double their sales. I for one would buy both.

Am I repeating myself?

Sheffield Abella
sheff@sheff.com
www.sheff.com

[roman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>When I OLE a Xara document into Power Point, it looks like hell when I print. So, I'm better off printing from Xara.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

...you insert a xara object document to the powerpoint and it prints out badly? Maybe printing of object uses the default quality settings for print (xara has set that to "normal" on default. Maybe there is some way to set it to High on default?

Roman