"Click here", Gary.

[RTK]

I had nothing against people voting for the XaraXone. It was the unethical tactics of your ‘click-here’ posts that got to me. I have lost count on how many times I have said that here at Talkgraphics and in private emails. Did I not even provide you with tips, and a link to a CGI script that would make it easier for you to implement an easier, and more effective linking strategy to Graphics.com?

As well I would not have bothered writing this had you not felt compelled to also insult me personally in your "It's a new week :-)" post (omitting my name makes it no less insulting). I’m truly and utterly disgusted! Please, remove everything that has my name on it at the XaraXone - anything else would be just plain wrong!

Risto

risto@ristoklint.com

Visit my web site!

[ChrisDickman]

You know, if Xara placed that link to Graphics.com on their main site, they'd generate far more traffic than anything TalkGraphics itself could ever generate. Seems like a win-win situation to me. Why not encourage them to give it a try? Failing that, they could run a banner on the top of this page -- either way, then Gary wouldn't have to constantly "rally the troops".

Best wishes to all!

Chris Dickman

[joroho]

Risto, It really does seem to me that you're over-reacting here. I see you taking insult where none was intended. Certainly Gary never implied that you needed his permission to start another Xara-related forum, but he does deserve to have been notified of your plans.

I sure hope you two can find a way to come to some agreeable arrangement which will allow your material to remain on the XaraXone.

Let cooler heads prevail.

.joroho.

http://www.joroho.com/initials.gif

[gidgit]

Oh for heaven's sake... must have been a full moon recently eh?

Well, laundry duty calls and I can't do it here so...

Happy Creat'n all

[Ross Macintosh]

Ya, let's move forward. Gary's "frame challenge" thread still has lots of room in it for more postings!

Regards to all,
Ross

<a href=http://www.designstop.com/>DesignStop.Com</a>

[RTK]

... be more than a slight confusion here...

Talkgraphics and the XaraXone are not the same websites. (I know it might seem that way.) To the people who sent me emails (and Steve?) I never asked anything to be deleted from Talkgraphics.

Risto

risto@ristoklint.com

Visit my web site!

[GroWeb]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>by Risto Klint:
More than enough have already been said on this issue, don't you think?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Absolutely!

Glen

[RTK]

joroho - did you read the original post or the self-censored one?

GroWeb - I appreciate your concern for me! http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/smile.gif Perhaps, you just missed the self-censored (Like the last one...) and deleted threads?

Your quote: "You seem to have gone from being... etc..." I guess you missed the other posts around here... TG and PP are not the only forums on the web. It might come as a shock to you but there is also something called: "helping out in your community..."

Derek - What can I say... http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Risto

risto@ristoklint.com

Visit my web site!

[Ross Macintosh]

Gary - another option is for you to take the time to really think about the ethics of the "click here" promotion strategy. Of course you are right about the nice referal benefits of the XaraXone ranking highly at graphics.com - that's not the part to think about. Rather think about the somewhat artificial means being used to boost the ranking and what do you think was the original intention behind Chris' including the rankings on his site. Others have repeatedly told you they believe the "click here" promotion strategy is unethical. Why do you think that is?

I personally side with those uncomfortable with the strategy. I certainly don't see the benefits as a justification. Either it is ethical or it isn't.

I wish Chris would just can the whole rankings feature. I realize he probably has a benefit in even hollow hits in that he can tell his advertisers his site is getting so many hits. Likewise, I understand that the XaraXone's sponsors probably like to hear that the site is getting lots of hits. Those aspects should not override the underlying ethical question.

Regards, Ross

<a href=http://www.designstop.com/>DesignStop.Com</a>

[GroWeb]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>By Risto Klint:
GroWeb - I appreciate your concern for me! http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/smile.gif Perhaps, you just missed the self-censored (Like the last one...) and deleted threads?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It really is concern, and I am taking your smiley as an indication that you realize that. And no, I don't think I missed any of the threads that have come up here, though I may have missed the censored part of a self-censored post. However, I think the self-censoring was an well-intentioned attempt at damage control. If Gary were adamant about ideas he had expressed, he would not have censored them. Try to see positive motives in his actions rather than assuming ill intent. (This is what I meant by being positive rather than negative.) And even where the intent may be wrong, rise above it; why get your nose out of joint? You know that Gary's general pattern around here is very positive and helpful. Allow him to be wrong once in a while. Agree to disagree, and move on.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>By Risto Klint:
Your quote: "You seem to have gone from being... etc..." I guess you missed the other posts around here... TG and PP are not the only forums on the web. It might come as a shock to you but there is also something called: "helping out in your community..."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know that TG and PP are not the only forums on the web; but what has that to do with what we are discussing? And, as I mentioned above, I think I have caught the other posts around here.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but your comment about the "something called: 'helping out in your community'" seems like an angry attempt to make me feel bad about myself. Speaking as a person who does a great deal of volunteer work, and whose profession is a not-very-well-paid social service, I can assure you that you are wrong about this. Web forums are not the only form of community to which one can contribute. And you will perhaps notice that my posts in these forums -- including the two in this thread -- have invariably been efforts to contribute constructively to this community.

Getting back to the point: how come you're taking such umbrage in response to Gary's actions? There are bigger fish to fry. And besides, it looks from here as though he has recognized his mistakes and is trying to build bridges (though there is probably more he could do in this direction). The actions on your part that have concerned me include a decision in the recent past to pack up and boycott this forum (a decision you reversed in response to others' expressions of concern), and the decision to have all reference to you removed from the XaraXone. These actions stem from emotions that seem rather out of proportion to the events that have apparently set them off. What's up?

Glen