Broaden Xara X's appeal

[stubbsuk]

"I would argue the fact that you refer to CAD functionality as bloat be unfair"

Why? I am saying it is very important to keep focussed on what XaraX is and one thing it is not is a CAD program. It's a vector illustration program.

"I do get asked to deal with DXF files which I must use other apps to bring in. Maybe this falls into better import/export, but still, I would like to import and export DXF files."

Yeah I'd say this was import/export which is, in my opinion, a completely reasonable request.

"And multiple pages and spell checking would be welcome additions and not bloat."

To be fair, I didn't suggest that this would be bloat.

My point is simply that additional functionality should be within the reasonable realms of XaraX's purpose - vector illustration.

I use XaraX1 for illustration/logo/web design, Word for letters, Ovation Pro for DTP, Sibelius3 for composition, PhotoshopCS for photo manipulation... each application is excellent at what it does, which I think is the point myself and a few others are trying to make.

[jaxtraw]

To me, it seems here that the issue is that Xara need to decide who they want X to appeal to (well yes, that's the point of this thread http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/smile.gif). If they want it to have a broad appeal to naive home users, they'll alienate the pro market. If they want it to appeal to pros, they can't fill it with stuff for home users.

I think the fact is, and I don't mean this in an insulting way, pros are rather snobbish, and don't like the idea of using something "for amateurs". That's not just true of graphics pros, or whatever, it's true of everyone- it's why e.g. power tools are always available in two ranges, one for amateurs and one for professionals. I was an electrician for years and, like everyone I worked with, wouldn't be seen dead with a domestic Black & Decker in my hands http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Now, that doesn't mean pandering to those who think an app is only "pro" if it's difficult to use. One wonderful thing about Xara is how simple (simple in a good way, as in ergonomic) it is. That means that amateurs *can* use it if they wish.

But I think, in terms of the "soul" of Xara, it has to retain a professional sheen. Filling it with wizards and such will ruin it on that score. No app can be all things to all people. It will end up not really appealing to anyone.

I think this is all a matter of balance. I think finding "make a birthday card" on a menu will be the kiss of death. Those of us trying to evangelise the product to people who ask us which vector app we recommend would have a much more difficult job. IMV Xara needs to be directly up against Illustrator et al.

So, if I were Xara, I would say to the people on this forum not "what can we do to broaden Xara's appeal to new markets?" or "what are your wishlist features?". I would say "What do you currently have to use Illustrator/CorelDraw to do that you can't do in Xara?" and make a list, and make sure there is a way to do every one of those things in X2. I'd make it integrate as seamlessly as possible with the other default apps, such as Photoshop- exporting to .psd format in layers with transparency preserved etc has to be an essential for X2.

Those aren't the only things that need to be done- new features are important too. But let's get the basics up to date first http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Sheff]

I apologize if I had overstepped my bounds.

I do feel overall, that I would use Xara for the things it does best. I also feel that there are some areas where it is close in terms of functionality that serve my needs. It just needs to go a little bit further.

I agree the that Photoshop is the best bitmap solution and an easier way for Xara to interface with it would be appreciated.

I think they should abandon XPE.

I agree with Jaxtraw in that Xara is unsure of who their target market is.

And like you, I use various other applications to get the job done, such as Dreamweaver for webdesign or Painter for digital painting.

Now that Expression/Acrylic are trying to be better vector painting tools, if Xara wants to compete in that arena, then they should fix their brushes and make it easier for painters. Because of my familiarity with Xara, I would really like to start using it for vector painting.

In terms of CAD functionality, all I really want is perimeter and area in the infobar and DXF import/export. If Xara can squeeze in a few more features that will help not hinder CAD users, then great. I don't expect Xara to compete with AutoCAD anymore than XPE can compete with Photoshop.

Whatever happened to Webstyle? Shouldn't this be the version for beginners? I think that Xara should also get their naming convention for their products to be consistent.

If they were to rename Webstyle to X2Lite or something like that, it would make very little sense to someone who knows nothing about their products.

If they want to 'dumb-down' Xara for beginners with Wizards and such, do it in Webstyle. Keep Xara lean for your existing customers. Pros will appreciate it if the attention to clean code were to carry over into the functionality.

[jaxtraw]

What about splitting X into two products?

A "home" version at a lower price. Includes wizards and stationery and suchlike. A carefully chosen feature subset- perhaps even X as it is now in terms of tools without new ones.

A "pro" version that has the features that make pros' palms sweaty, such as a powerful, rock-solid prepress environment/CYMK etc colorspaces, integration with other pro apps such as Photoshop, enhanced text handling (e.g. flow from box to box), multipage documents...

?

[RTK]

Lots of great ideas thrown around here! http://www.talkgraphics.com/images/smilies/smile.gif However, it would be nice if Charles could jump in and give the thread a bit more "direction"...

As for myself - I have seen a hundred ideas tossed around here, and in the "wishlist" threads that would make the application (even) better. However, as most here, I would hate to see Xara X balloon in to something it should not try to be. Add-ons/Plug-ins is probably the way to go.

[hillsy]

To be honest, I disagree with the idea that Xara should be made into "the only vector application a professional will ever need". If you want a professional vector app that does everything plus the kitchen sink, go get Draw or to a slightly lesser extent Illustrator. Of course in software power almost always = complexity.

IMHO, Xara should focus on what makes Xara great. Ease of use, great performance, low price, and a set of features that - while not always industry leading - cover the things most people want to do. They don't necessarily even have to target the non-professional user - I'm sure plenty of professionals would use Xara based on speed, ease of use etc.

Focus on what makes Xara different and good value, rather then on how to turn it into an Illustrator clone. Just my £0.02.

[stubbsuk]

I think you might be reading too much into our comments. Personally, I don't want an Illustrator clone. However, currently many people are forced to use such an application to finish off work or send work to the printers. So, the point is that you should most definitely not have to use Illustrator just to get a decent CMYK vector file to send to the printers. This is somthing that XaraX should have covered. You should not have to use Illustrator to import a file and convert it to a legacy format to import it into XaraX. XaraX should have modern filters. Mostly it's a case of finishing off what's already (almost) there.

[jaxtraw]

It doesn't make any sense to me for Xara's developers to choose not to make it as powerful as its competitors. I don't want another vector app on my system, thanks very much. I want Xara to do the lot from the first node to the final output. Swapping between apps is always very inefficient workflow- and if I know I'll need to use something else during the workflow, I may well start out with that app to save the hassle. Xara will always be difficult to evangelise if it chooses to be second rate.

[zee]

Michael,
Thanks for the information. Your points are well taken and I personally agree with them 100%.

[colin_e]

What do I or the family use other (vector) apps for?

* Multi-page documents-
CorelDraw, StarOffice Draw/Impress

* Quickshapes+connectors-
CorelDraw, StarOffice Draw

* Automatic dimension lines-
CorelDraw, StarOffice Draw

* Imposition e.g. greetings card layouts-
CorelDraw, MS Publisher

* Posterised printing-
MS Pub

* "natural media" brushes-
We've experimented with Expression 3.

Observations-

CorelDraw (old version admittedly) is ghastly to use after Xara, but multi-page docs in particular is really hard to live without. Flakey under XP.

Staroffice/OpenOffice draw is a lot more capable than many realise, and free/cheap.

Expression- Love the brush technology, i just wish it had the Xara interface.