right aligned web-page

Hi All,
I'm considering to try out a right-aligned website but am not a Web-Coder. As I knew that there is the
Left-Aligned tweak I thought it might work to just replace all instances of "Left" in the Page-Header-Script
but there seems to be a little more to it. It did not work. Can someone help?



<script type="text/javascript">function my_lres(e){if(my_loldres)my_loldres(e);xr_xr.style .marginLeft="0px";xr_xr.style.left="0px";xr_dx=0;d ocument.body.style.backgroundPosition="0px 0px";};var my_loldres=0;window.onload=my_llod;function my_llod(){my_loldres=window.onresize;window.onresi ze=my_lres;my_lres();};</script>

Btw: besides being unconventional: Does anyone see functional limitations of Right-Aligned (in terms of not being displayed correctly?).
How do Left and Right Aligned Pages load on Mobile Devices for instant? Are there any problems to expect? Is there any trick to simulate
output to such Devices which on can use in XaraDesigner?

The origin point in web browsers is top-left. Changing things to right doesn't work because of this.
To align right you need some dynamic code that detects the how far from the origin the right is and this would depend on many factors.
It's unconventional and you don't see it because, well... what's the point?

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Originally Posted by sledger

The origin point in web browsers is top-left. Changing things to right doesn't work because of this.
To align right you need some dynamic code that detects the how far from the origin the right is and this would depend on many factors.
It's unconventional and you don't see it because, well... what's the point?

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Oh bummer - that seems like bad news / a complicated solution.
I think that left aligned and right aligned are definedly worth beeing re-considered in times where fast Internet-Connections are a standard.
On now can use individually created (centered and non-scolling) Page-Background as quite an important Design-Element of single pages.

Trying such a Design with a centered page is pretty limiting as the left and right margins are pretty narrow - non centered makes more sense
here. Personally - from a Design point of view I would rather read on the right side and place Background Graphics to the left. That's why I
thought of Right Alignment. Does that now make at least some sense to you?

Do you have experiences how non-centered pages look on Ipads and such?

Thanks Sledger!

Most web sites are centred because of the desire to balance the page within it's web browser context. Right aligning upsets the balance - particularly for western viewers who are taught to read from left to right.

I think you don't see right-aligned websites for a very good reason.

I don't follow why internet speeds are relevant to alignment.

Hi Pauland,

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Right aligning upsets the balance - particularly for western viewers who are taught to read from left to right.

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sorry, I solely asked for technical advise here, I'm not interested in leading a Usability-Discussion.
I'm convinced one could create highly attractive and inviting right-aligned Websites.

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I don't follow why internet speeds are relevant to alignment.

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Only some years ago one had to be very economic with kilobytes. That was one of the reasons why
mostly tiled or uni-colored backgrounds were in use. Nowadays as one is no longer bound by bandwith-limitations
one can also use individually created Page-Backgrounds to support the Content of a single page.
It no longer has to serve as a neutral backplate or invitation for a romantic mood (aka dawn+palm-trees) but that may
mean that Background-Images have considerable size in kb. But using that option works better if the Page is off center.
Is this a bit clearer now?

This is a sample page for Left-Aligned which somewhat demonstrates this principle. It of course could be applied to right-aligned.

You could use the left aligned page tweak and then create a very long horizontal website like this
► http://www.clholloway.co.za/

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Originally Posted by sledger

You could use the left aligned page tweak and then create a very long horizontal website like this
► http://www.clholloway.co.za/

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Thanks but that is again something entirely else :)

I was not aware that right-aligned causes technical problems.
So, if there's no easy fix I rather use left aligned instead.

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Originally Posted by polyxo

Hi Pauland,

sorry, I solely asked for technical advise here, I'm not interested in leading a Usability-Discussion.

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That's the trouble with open forums, people often don't do as you expect or want them to. You might not be interested, but others may be, or they can just politely ignore my comment.

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Only some years ago one had to be very economic with kilobytes. That was one of the reasons why
mostly tiled or uni-colored backgrounds were in use. Nowadays as one is no longer bound by bandwith-limitations
one can also use individually created Page-Backgrounds to support the Content of a single page.
It no longer has to serve as a neutral backplate or invitation for a romantic mood (aka dawn+palm-trees) but that may
mean that Background-Images have considerable size in kb. But using that option works better if the Page is off center.
Is this a bit clearer now?

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Maybe clearer for you, but it has no relevance to how a page is aligned.

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This is a sample page for Left-Aligned which somewhat demonstrates this principle. It of course could be applied to right-aligned.

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Yes, I'm familiar, suprisingly, with the notion of left-alignment.

I know polyxo isn't interested in a Usability discussion, but others may wish to check out the csszen garden. This does feature some designs that use right-handed menus and the like. You will find that these are not actually right-aligned designs, but fluid designs that will balance the page, either at the centre, or across the entire width (regardless of browser size). This kind of adaptability comes from CSS layouts and is not possible out of the box with Xara.

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Thanks but that is again something entirely else

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I forgot to add the smile and wink emoticons :cool:

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That's the trouble with open forums, people often don't do as you expect or want them to. You might not be interested, but others may be, or they can just politely ignore my comment.

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I just preferred to get a technical solution if someone feels invited to spend a thought on this.
How about a new thread on that matter?

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Maybe clearer for you, but it has no relevance to how a page is aligned.

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It definedly has a relevance as stated several times before in this thread.
If margin is 100% then a centrally aligned page gives you two times 50% which may or may be not what you want.
Off-center gives you 100%.

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Originally Posted by sledger

I forgot to add the smile and wink emoticons :cool:

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ok, cheers! :)

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Originally Posted by polyxo

It definedly has a relevance as stated several times before in this thread.
If margin is 100% then a centrally alligned pages gives you two times 50% which may or may be not what you want.
Off center gives you 100%.

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I was talking about internet speed. I have no idea what the quote above is intended to explain (and I do understand margins), but no matter.

Carry on without me.

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Originally Posted by pauland

I was talking about internet speed. I have no idea what the quote above is intended to explain (and I do understand margins), but no matter.

Carry on without me.

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It was by no means my intention to offend you.
However: I think we really look at things from very different angles.

I am saying that in case one wants to use the page-background for Design moving
the page off-Center gives you more contigouos space to work with.
Please say that we can agree on this.

With Xara, the space you can work with is fixed. It's the same space regardless of whether it's left-aligned, centred, or right-aligned; it's simply that Xara builds fixed size layouts.

You can certainly align things right, but I fail to see how that affects the design area that is available. The best you can do is to use design elements that trick the user into thinking that margin space is filled (background elements and such).

It's a design choice to try and right-align but it's not one that increases the available contiguous space. The design size in Xara is fixed and the spare margin space is dependant on the browser window and is unusable for active elements as far as out-of-the-box Xara goes.

Lets wait and see what you come up with.

Pauland, may I ask you to look at the Site I already posted as an example here?
Imagine your goal was to show something lenghy (a bycicle or so) on the page background. What was the more suitable option to show the Bycicle as large as
possible and not broken in parts/occluded by the Page itself? Centered or off-Center?
If you still think that there's no difference on a Standard 16:10 or 16:9 screen I think it's hard to go on discussing that matter.

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Originally Posted by polyxo

I am saying that in case one wants to use the page-background for Design moving
the page off-Center gives you more contigouos space to work with.

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What you are actually talking about is the browser background (the viewport) rather than the 'page' background yes?
This is called the pasteboard in Xara (a term used before Xara could create websites) and is what ends up as whitespace in the browser window.
Yes, this 'pasteboard' can be used for a tiled background texture or even an image - but it's technically not the 'page' content area.
The page content area is fixed in the centre as Paul explained earlier, but - with the left aligned page tweak you can have it hug the left edge of the browser window (viewport).
Having the page content area hugging the right edge of the browser viewport is likely possible with some really funky scripting but personally I see it as neither useful or aesthetically pleasing. I can't find any examples on line (some may exist, I don't know) so I think that's the general consensus.
Of course, I accept that you might want to tinker with the idea to see how it works and looks for yourself ;)

Polyxo, I understand the proposition.

Sites aligned to an edge can let large background elements be seen. There have been some sites designed that way that I thought were quite stunning, but invariably they need to go for less clutter in their active elements so that the full page images/design can be showcased. Yes it can look good.

Whether a site is aligned for such purposes to the left or right, doesn't matter - it doesn't really increase the available design space for Xara, it just allows the designer to incorporate and feature background images as part of the design.

As for right-alignment? It has no intrinsic advantage, design-wise to left-alignment, and definite disadvantages that would need to be overcome by rather a good designer.

Anyway, if you find a way to do it with Xara, we will be looking forward to seeing the result!

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What you are actually talking about is the browser background (the viewport) rather than the 'page' background yes?
This is called the pasteboard in Xara (a term used before Xara could create websites) and is what ends up as whitespace in the browser window.

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Yes, that's what I mean. Sorry for mixing up names. Thought my sample communicated what I mean.

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Yes, this 'pasteboard' can be used for a tiled background texture or even an image - but it's technically not the 'page' content area.

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Well, it's visible - that's all what matters to me :)

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The page content area is fixed in the centre as Paul explained earlier, but - with the left aligned page tweak you can have it hug the left edge of the browser window (viewport).
Having the page content area hugging the right edge of the browser viewport is likely possible with some really funky scripting but personally I see it as neither useful or aesthetically pleasing. I can't find any examples on line (some may exist, I don't know) so I think that's the general consensus.

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May I remind you of your own Signature :) Doing something new often has to do with break with some sorts of consensus.
I at least find that left aligned sample-Page conceptually very convincing and would not see how that wouldn't work the other way round.
But actually I would not do anything new: Right aligned pages seem relatively common in areas of the world where one reads from right to left.

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Originally Posted by pauland

Anyway, if you find a way to do it with Xara...

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Well - and that exactly was all I wanted to discuss :)

I could have imagined all the doubts and convention - matters beforehand and wanted to avoid wasting time with that.
This is not intended impolite, it's just being focused. I don't want to convince anyone in this matter but I also don't want to get convinced either.

Polyxo, you make me smile.

You didn't like my mention of the left to right convention in the west and finish by mentioning the right to left conventions favoured in the east!

I'm not going to try and convince you, but don't think the posts are wasted time. You may have asked the question, but many others are interested in the answer. They may be interested in the answer you didn't want.

I hope you find a solution - because I want to see the result.

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Originally Posted by pauland

I'm not going to try and convince you, but don't think the posts are wasted time. You may have asked the question, but many others are interested in the answer. They may be interested in the answer you didn't want.

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Thing is that I did a Web-Search before even asking here.
Of course one could read all these arguments elsewhere too.

I just looked for correction of a piece of code, so I feel that the reasoning is wasted time.
For me at least.

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I hope you find a solution - because I want to see the result.

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If right aligned is very complex to do you probably won't see me doing this.

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Originally Posted by polyxo

Right aligned pages seem relatively common in areas of the world where one reads from right to left.

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Well, right aligned content yes.

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... I also don't want to get convinced either.

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We aren't out to 'get you convinced', being convinced is actually something you have to become ;)
But as a discussion forum and forum members, we'll certainly be instrumental in helping you reach whatever choice you make. :)