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I just received my Macbook today and was extremely disappointed that both OpenOffice (a big shock) and Inkscape required X11 to be installed. If I wanted to run applications through X11, I would use Linux, not OS X, and I refuse to install that diabolical piece of stone age software!
I haven't seen wether Xara LX will require X11 or not, but please tell me that the goal is that you won't have to install it!
Crossing my fingers and waiting for a reply...
You missed something, openoffice exist in aqua native build and don't need X11 to run. It's name is Neooffice look here :
http://www.planamesa.com/neojava/en/
Xara uses wx-widget wich has been ported natively on macosX. So it does not use X11 as far as i i understand. When i launch XaraLX no X11 window is launched.
But it uses the unix base system. You need the developpers tools and have some unix libraries to be installed via Fink etc...
I think that X11 and the unix possibility of macosX are a great chance for this OS.
Don't gorget that the sentence of mac is " think different " :)
X11 does not belong on a home or media intense desktop, and never will.
Sounds good that LX can do without it, but surely, the "final" product will not require developer tools to be installed, but should work out of the box on a vanilla OS X installation?
Also, the "native" OpenOffice seems to wrap everything in Java (urrrgh) and is based on the 1.x source and not the slick, new 2.x code.
Why do you say that?Quote:
Originally Posted by eobet
I agree eobet, at least to the extent that X11 and all other 'exposed technical complexities' have no place on any computer system that expects to be used by a wide / large audience.
So you can rest assured the Mac version will be a true Mac style application. It will require NO special anything to be installed. It will install via a copy, just like all good Mac apps, and it will just work with no dependencies. We completely and absolutely understand the Mac 'keep it simple' philosophy - we share it to our core.
Having said that it has to be said the Mac version is quite a way behind the Linux one, but the goal remains that we will have a slick Mac app. Depends on how much help we get from the outside world.
There are many reasons. For example, the average home user will never need a remote desktop, so why use a system that is built especially for that functionality? As it was explained to me, because it is built around that functionality, the client desktop (ie. the one you see) basically can't do a single thing by itself, but needs to pass every click, every redraw and every window movement to the server, which is costly and unwanted by someone using a media intense application.Quote:
Originally Posted by jedfrechette
I mean, for crying out loud, 3D graphics accelerators weren't even invented when X11 was created, and today, the OS X desktop is entirely drawn using OpenGL!
Thank you for your post, Mr. Moir. I am looking forward to be able to test LX on my Macbook in the future!
I think a native fully easy install XaraLX will be possible in the future.
maybe Like gimp.app or maybe like gimp on windows ( GTK is installed by a setup and then gimp can be installed ). Well if it did not change, i switched some years ago. ;)
I am not sure that this argument is entirely correct. According to Wikipedia modern versions of OS X and Windows have similar subsystem seperation and the performance hit is minimal.Quote:
Originally Posted by eobet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X11
Considering that Xara is an outgrowth of Artworks a program that is only 4 years younger than X11 I like to think of both programs as being mature. As far as hardware acceleration goes an OpenGL X11 desktop will be here in the not to distant future http://www.novell.com/linux/xglrelease/.Quote:
Originally Posted by eobet
I agree with you that having Xara independent of X11 on OS X is a good thing. However, this is largely due to the lack of integration between X11 and the rest of the OS X desktop rather than any fundamental failings of X11. This is one of my main gripes with OS X, that and the lack of builtin virtual desktops. I bet you can guess which OS I migrated from.:)
As of now, you do not need X11 or XonX (or whatever) for XaraLX on the Mac.Quote:
Originally Posted by eobet
To continue your soccer metaphor, the Mac version of Xara LX will have a native appearance, provided by wxWidgets, from the time that the ball is placed on the centre spot, before the whistle is blown for the kick-off.
Inkscape requires X11, insofar as its interface is GTK. You can knock X11 if you wish, but modern window managers such as XFCE are highly usable and both Gnome and KDE have their adherents.
Inkscape has the advantage of actually working, and if you can find the time, I would suggest that you overcome your distaste for the 1980s and products from MIT such as X11 and try out, really test, push, push to its limits and punish Inkscape and as many of its features that matter to you. I am hoping that you will find Inkscape to be of some value. Personally, I find it almost fantastic that on my Mac I can read and write a file format such SVG knowing that it is cross-platform and people who boot up their machines with, say say, Ubuntu can use my files and review my ideas.