Thank you and good bye! I'm no longer Xara's target audience.

Not relevant to the thread, I know, but I just had to say that Bob H's avatar has just made me laugh out loud. Nice one :D

Jon

Since I've been in the mood to bitch about Xara lately I'll throw my two cents in on this thread.

No body really gives a flying flip about what gets put in as long as it stays lean and mean and loads quickly and stays uncluttered and so far I think Charles had done a pretty good job of that.

Let's not pretend that everything Illustrator does is based on postcript either. A lot of it's functionality now is just a hack because Postcript still doesn't support Alpha transparency as far as I know. It's on-screen rendering sucks for the most part. It creates huge files and requires tons of memory just to run.

Also, you can't say that xara was only designed to be a niche tool. A lot of people can't afford Photoshop so the photo editing tools are a good move i.m.o., and I think most would agree. A lot of the other features are really cool like the web export and I for one love the fact that all of this was integrated into the app, and yet the interface is still very clean and simple like it was in the beginning not cluttered like Adobe apps, and yet the program is still super fast and loads files far quicker than it's competitors.

Not having a version for the Mac was a really poor move on Xara's devs part. Right now they would be kicking Adobe's tail if they had done so years back or Adobe would possibly have bought the program, either way it would be taken seriously in the pro design arena.

Our biggest complaint and I think this thread echoes so many others is that Charles has long ago stopped listening to the user base and decided to ignore what most of us want the most and some of those things like zeroing out rotations and other basic vector stuff would be quite simple to implement. Gone are the days when Charles and Kate actually had some interaction with this forum and listened, although compared to some other more progressive developers they have never really been that close to it's user base. I mean it would have been really cool if they had put up a poll or something about the new Object Manager to get some initial feedback of what people wanted but no, it's just "here is the way it's going to be and you have to live with it". I think that's what really has most of us upset that have been loyal customers for years and years. They put in all of these cool features but rarely do they do anything specifically that the users have asked for.

And finally if they would have created an sdk for plugin developers that would integrate directly into the core app so we could have vector manipulation tools none of these bitch and moan sessions that come up every release would even exist because somebody out there would have created the features we want by now as a plugin.

:)

I'm not sure if it is a case of not listening, the object gallery has many functions that have been requested before by lots of people. It may well be just too expensive or require too much time and other resources to implement new vector tools.

Covoxer tries to explain these things, but some of what is said goes way over my head.

and I would add :

something that I specifically asked for after the release of xtreme 4 has appeared in xtreme 5

thread here:

http://www.talkgraphics.com/showthread.php?t=32193

it had support [and to be fair had been mentioned before] and it was implemented, and I for one am grateful,

this is the sort of thing that can really help me - not some unspecified airy fairy 'new vector tool' but making a basic tool work better :)

the same can be said of the multi-stop transparency

I'm sure I could specify some vector tools if you like steve?

Eobet and other professional illustrators may unwittingly be settng Xara up as a straw dog here. The complaints and criticisms he and others raise are valid--e.g. need for more advanced vector tools like mesh fills, tracing tools, masks &c. But considering Xara's history and size the company have made good businss decisions.

Eobet says he is no longer Xara's target audience. Well, I think it would have been a mugs game, still would be, for Xara to try going head to head with Adobe, say, because this would require more resources and market share than they have. Instead Xara have sensibly put their efforts into building outstandingly good products for lower and mid-range users with a view to building a strengthened position for themselves in that market. I also know from hanging around the TG forums for quite a while now, that there are plenty of Xara users who are top-notch professional calibre graphics persons. So....

Xara's 'target audience' must include many like me who whatever their gifts and skill levels can't afford or else don't need highly sophisticated up-market tools like those of Adobe. For these users Xara is a gift. Xara's loyal and expanding user base suggests that they are on the right track.

XWD is a good recent example. Its of limited use and value to professional web developers who must rely on ASP.NET or some such in their work, no question. But XWD has still been a big hit. Not out more than a couple months or so and now, Xara having tested the water, already integrated into Xara 5. Sure, Xara might else have put their money into more and advanced graphical tools, but I'd bet XWD has helped Xara gain popularity and market. I hope it's being reflected in their bottom line.

If so its my guess that eventually, and maybe even sooner than later, we'll be seeing some of those advanced graphical tools that many have been asking for, maybe even see a product that can begin to compete with Adobe. Meantime let's hope that Eobet and others like him keep an eye on Xara and revisit these forums from time to time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Soquili

I think it is more a last hope that someone from Xara will post and say they are working on a Mac version of Xtreme. Which would not happen even if it were true.

Xara is well known for not leaking any information about any future versions.

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Some sort of update on their current Mac state would be nice.

Linux and Mac version (October 11, 2005)

Secondly, Xara plans to create Linux and Mac versions of the graphics application. Charles said, "Mac and Linux users have been asking, in fact begging, for many years that we create versions for their platforms. Our plans are to change the graphics software landscape forever, and that means we have to be cross-platform.

It's ironic that Mac still dominates the creative industries, and yet there are few really good, general purpose, low cost graphics applications now available. You can pay $500 ($900 in the UK) for the latest Adobe Illustrator, but when you can get a new Mac for that price, that's outrageous and unjustified.

With the likely elimination of Macromedia products, Mac users will have even less choice. So by making a Mac version and Open Sourcing it we hope to bring the world's fastest and most versatile graphics software to the Mac platform, at last"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarkMyWords

I'm sure I could specify some vector tools if you like steve?

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:D:D

I just don't think it helps to say 'give us more vector tools' and leave it at that as some do

Where specific requests are made that's good, especially if it is supported by a work flow example that demonstrates how it would be useful in
xtreme

Far more helpful to Xara too

There are some on these boards who say loudly that Xara is not listening to them, but I wonder if they try putting themselves in Xara's place?

@PHILT good post

Im sure that Xara is doing what ever is best for business, and when the conditions are right for them they will make a Mac version , or add more vector tools or what ever seems to be the best business decision at the time.
There must be more market or demand for the web designer functions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JokeArtist

Damn right ... I've not upgraded since 3.2 but I've put my hand in my pocket for Illustrator CS4 ... just to have a play with it. When you're a professional design then $600 is the earth to get new tools to do your job better when it equates to a couple of days work.

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+1

I have upgraded to each new Xara version so far.

If Xara's price would go up to $599 with vector tool enhancements (...) - I would still buy it.



BTW, Adobe Master Collection CS4 cost USD$2500 for 14(!) tools (including Illustrator, Indesign, Dreamweaver, Photoshop, Acrobat and much more).
That is USD$178 per application.