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Yeah!!!
But it is promoting Xara Page & Layout Designer 11, which is so stale:
Version: 11.2.3.40788
Filesize: 89.6MB
Date: Sept 01, 2015
Magix are selling it at £50 and yet Xara Photo & Graphic Designer has more features and is £5 cheaper and is up-to-date with a version date of March 29, 2021.
Acorn
Odd to see Quark as a InDesign substitute. Back in the day, InDesign was considered a poorman's QuarkXPress and while some thought InDesign had some cool features, it was never going to replace QuarkXpress.
If I were not so old and intractable at this point I would start using Affinity Publisher. They have really designed a true publishing programs from the ground up instead of adding a feature here and pasting on part of a function there.
But in terms of books — I've now done a dozen — I know how to get Xara to do what I need and I have been pretty happy with the results.
Not that software comparison "reviews" were ever true dives into the software, but in the late 1980s and through the 1990s they were better. Closer to a true review.
The linked one demonstrates the author has no true clue what layout software is and should do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwenz
In all fairness, the author clearly indicates if the listed software is for beginners (such as, Xara) or professionals etc. (such as Affinity).
Boy, is it fair to fail on price and freshness of the wrong product?Quote:
Originally Posted by Boy
Acorn
I’m just glad we got mentioned, although I agree with what others have said.
.
I never imagined a mention of a Xara product would cause an argument!
No, in fact it isn't but then we should also discuss the freshness and fairness of all Xara/Magix apps. How fair is XDA's pricing? How fresh is XDP?Quote:
Originally Posted by Acorn
I bought XDP 18 because of a timely and substantial discount and a whole load of free goodies thrown in. I love XDP and want to have a relatively current version for when Magix might stop selling it. I certainly don't want to be hooked up to the XDP+ IV and be forced to pay yearly subscription fees simply to have access to it.
To be sure, I do respect the route you favor.
that's because [as I don't need to tell you] the article does not contain any review materialQuote:
Originally Posted by mwenz
to be a review the programs would need to have been tested in use and the results compared and benchmarked
in fact what the article contains is just descriptive material
it's as if egon ronay had written about menus and decor and the appearance of the staff... but not actually sampled the food....
web is full of it
Yes, all true. I specified comparative review, which is slighly different than a full review.Quote:
Originally Posted by handrawn
For a decent comparative review, the author needs to be at least intimately literate in the software being compared and how they are used, even if the review wasn't deeply compared. That author wasn't up to the task even an informal comparison review. Else APub wouldn't have been so favorably mentioned. Scribus is far more feature-rich than APub. XaraAnything wouldn't have had a mention at all, much less a defunct application version. Viva Designer should have, would have, also had its Linux and web versions mentioned too.
Oh well. I don't put any stock in these click-bait, regurgitated reviews anyway.
Couldn't you guys just be glad that Xara had a mention without picking the whole thing to bits?
:)Quote:
Couldn't you guys just be glad that Xara had a mention without picking the whole thing to bits?
Gary & Paul, say you created something 6 years ago but vastly improved it since then and your reputation and business hinged on what you now produce rather than your original artwork...Quote:
Originally Posted by gwpriester
...it shows up Xara's efforts in a poor light.
Acorn
nicely put acorn
All that required was "Why doesn't Xara tell this guy he's recommending out of date software?" or "Why doesn't Xara get mentioned elsewhere?".Quote:
Originally Posted by Acorn
I'd rather there was a mention of Xara than no mention.
You guys also conveniently miss out the price/capability issue. Maybe it would never be recommended at a higher price point. Once the price point goes up Xara looks weak as a page layout program.
Anyway we all have a different take on this and my take-away is don't bother with Xara mentions again!
sorry paul, but sh*t reviews are endemic on the web.. that is is the most important thing here
sure there is a price point - but I would argue you recommend something with legs, not something dead in the water that will not take you where you should be going as you develop
sure it is good xara was mentioned, just a shame about the context
Why? Why does Xara deserve a mention as a software for doing layout work? What is, Layout Software?Quote:
Originally Posted by pauland
That is not to say that some manage to do layout work with an Xara product. Hell, I've hammered in nails using a Crescent wrench and would criticise an article about hammers including a Crescent wrench in it.
Now that's a man talking! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by mwenz
I'd like to think that Xara getting any positive mention outside of TG for any reason is a good thing.
Some people have used Xara for book production so while it is far from being the best for that purpose it is possible and favoured for that by some eminent users.
It was simply a heads-up for a rare mention of Xara and never intended to be some kind of dissection of the article or of Xara.
I'm quite saddened by the way people have and are responding to it. I guess it's a sign of the frustration of users with the development.
Perhaps it's time to close this thread, or even just delete it given the overwhelmingly negative response.
Again, Why? Why close it or delete it? Because there wasn't only a bunch of enthuistic responses?
And I am quite "happy" that the 1-3 users that have created a, or X number, of book(s) in an Xara product have done so. But, then again, the article mentioned a defunct Xara product that, to the best of my knowledge, isn't/hasn't/wasn't used for said books.Quote:
Some people have used Xara for book production so while it is far from being the best for that purpose it is possible and favoured for that by some eminent users.
One of my issues with the referenced article using a defunct Xara application as a recommendation is people will/can be sorely misled by it. That missleading doesn't do Xara (the company) any good what so ever. Even if the article mentioned Xara Designer Pro, the article would be at best an inaccurate representation of XDP's capabilities--at least as regards a new user. Which, again, doesn't do Xara (the company) any good.
If Xara (the company) wants good press to further its name, there are ways to do that. Xara (the company) historically hasn't seem to care about actual marketing.
Is XDP, XP&GD, et al good software? I think it is. I would love to see real reviews concerning it. But they should be about the software's strength at the core of said review...even if the reviewer touched on edge-cases (such as layout).
I foolishly thought that (however flawed) some positive mention of Xara was a good thing, instead people seem intent on using it as an opportunity to lambast the post I linked to and indeed Xara in general.Quote:
Originally Posted by mwenz
I had expected some enthusiasm and some enthusiastic responses instead it's become a bad refection of the angst in the Xara community and really the whole thing now serves no purpose besides as a magnet for rather churlish users. The link is not to a review but simply to a subjective product summary.
I guess that I am in a minority of one in thinking that anything that directs someone to find out more about the product, even in a way that doesn't agree with some users is a good thing.
If an old version of the software is available at a low price, that's not a bad thing either since it is either a route to a discounted upgrade path or may well suit many users who have a restricted budget.
It's for the purchaser to decide the value of the product not the Xara expert users here.
You guys are a mean-sprited lot of so and so's !
You seem to have a poorer opinion of me than I do of Xara. I find that odd. I don't think I misrepresented Xara--the company or its products--and certainly wasn't "mean-spirited" about either.Quote:
Originally Posted by pauland
In any case, I'll leave the thread.
TG is here to help users, and prospective users; it is not here to push xara/magix product willy-nilly; at least that is my belief
don't take it to heart paul no one is getting at you
As for me, I use Xara exclusively for everything with the exception of web stuff which I do not do, it saddens me to see our user base diminishing.
Hi Wizard,
I just bought Xara Designer Pro X, about 3-4 months ago. I'm pretty happy with it. I also own Affinity. But I think that Xara is really nice and lightweight on Windows 10. I think it's a very underrated piece of software that perhaps most designers are unaware of. It has a good toolset.
Welcome at Talk Graphics and I totally agree! If they just gave it the TLC it deserves.... But some recent developments signal they might be doing just that.
lets hope so... :)
@pauland. Any publicity is good publicity. Reviews have to be taken with a huge grain of salt. That being said, anytime I’ve convinced a novice to start with Xara, they have not been disappointed. When I also explain it also does this, and this, and this too they’re amazed. It draws, publishes, web and newsletters.
Remember that we are long time users, and in a lot of cases expert users. These reviews are often times for people who are starting out.
I work on two platforms, and there ain’t nothing like Xara in the Mac world. Nothing even close if you exclude Adobe.
In my world I can’t figure out why Xara is not mentioned more,
Computer Active, a UK publication, for several years had a 'Buy It' section recommending the best PC, Laptops, Tablets, Mobiles etc to buy. One of these sections was the best website software of which Xara Web Designer sat at number one for getting on to several years.
Until a few months back this remained the case but then CA saw fit to remove the best website section and replace it with the best Smart Speaker.
I wonder what effect the loss of this constant recommendation had on Xara Web Designers sales?
@pauland, actually Paul I do more surfing on the pad more than I work with Xara+, and I see your point with the mention of Xara. Good or bad, whatever version of Xara, I believe Paul’s point that even the word Xara would spark some interest.
I find Xara is mentioned In a lot of places, and some of the lists are of course sketchy, but Xara is mentioned. So that’s a good thing. Xara pops up in unusual places, and mostly overseas.
Mention Xara in Canada, and many give you a side eye, so I assume that Xara is popular in the EU far more than North America.
This cloud version which I’ve explored, to me, seems to be a shot at the monthly Wordpress, and other iterations.
Cloud also is a solution if many are working on a file at once, but the Cloud Xara doesn’t even come close to Pro+.
I’m training a person on Xara this winter, but the client quite doesn’t understand that her uploads will be different than mine. I realize there is a process for working on the same file.
I’d like to know if Cloud is really working for Xara, but I’m rambling.
I know exactly what @pauland is trying to say. If someone with an inquiring mind sees the word “Xara”, it’s my hope they explore and land on the Xara home page. I know I did.
Interesting discussion. Thanks Paul for the original post.
you might equally argue that anyone who actually tried page and layer designer would be put off xara for life because of its obvious limitations
it depends how you want to second guess
btw xara gmbh [xara.com] do not sell themselves on the basis of providing programs - they sell themselves on the bsasis of providing solutions for business - some may include cloud, pro+ or both
it's important to realise this when you are trying to figure out what they are doing and where they are taking themselves