Double page/facing page

Dear all!

It's nice to have double page option but there are some problems to use this option on 4 or more-sided brochure. The problem is that in this option the last document page always need to be on the place of the 1 page on spread. No office printer could understand such page order and there is some work to prepare the document for proper page order before print/press.

Attachment 109505

The "first" page in the first doublepage spread should not be visible and the "last" page on the last spread should not be visible too.

Best regards,
Jakob

I could see a need for both layout options. +1 indeed.

-- Ben

Other than using an imposition plug-in for Acrobat, I never prepare PDFs for anything other than in Reader Order (single page A-Z order).

Adobe Reader & Acrobat, as well as most all PDF readers, can output as a booklet properly (presuming the requisite number of pages is met). Many/most better Office printers also have built-in booklet functions.

Mike

BTW, I didn't mean to detract from the request.

DTP-type of features need to be added and those that more or less exist, need revamped or fleshed out in order for XDP to be useful for such work.

In a vector editing application such as XDP, I design using a page size of the trim size, add bleed if required, and simply arrange the material as needed.

Most all the time, I will use a page layout application in preference to any vector application for layout. I'll still output in single page reader spreads, and if I want a proof printed using one of my printers, I will either use the Print Booklet function in Acrobat/Reader, or actually impose using the Acrobat plug-in (especially when there are cross-over graphics/images).

Mike

I can't think of any commercial printers (including us) who will want imposed pdf files. Simply supply 1-up and the printer will do the impostion.

Having the ability to convert a document to booklet layout after the fact is all well and fine, but the ability to see things in a double-page spread while doing the layout has value on its own, especially when trying to balance artwork placement. In other words, the view itself is more important to me than output options.

-- Ben

Which is why I use a page size equal to the trim size as mentioned for a quickie brochure.

BTW, this is doable in XDP. One cannot use the All Pages the Same in the page options. So each page needs to be made the proper size individually.

Attachment 109509

Mwenz that is it!
It seems like a lot of noise about nothing.

Regards

I use Xara to do a 4 page handout all the time I use the double page spread and I layout page 4 on the left side of the first double page spread and page 1 on the right.I add a second double page spread for pages 2 and 3 the handouts are printed on single sheets of 11X17 paper and printed double sided. This is called a folio layout which is useful for printing booklets etc as the pages will be in correct order when printed collated and folded. While it's not difficult to do small brochures and hand outs this way, but doing a lot of pages is a headache as the page order is not a straight forward 1,2,3 What would be nice would be a way to automate this so you would enter the number of pages in your booklet and your folios would be created for you as numbered facing pages and also to complete the feature a way to autmatically swtitch from folios to single pages in a 1,2,3 order. This way you could create booklets that can easily be printed and converted to export as pdfs and to add to this an ebook export feature would be nice.

I know I'm dreaming here but hey we finally got the art brushes!

But are not all members here wanting to layout docs using "master page" function. As mike states it doesn't matter really about the imposition if the printing is being done by a printer their software will handle that. If you do any small printing project, you're going to print it, surely you can design into your doc any imposition for yourself. The problems gets amplified when it is a full grown booklet with many pages and that's why I say there is a strong need for Master Pages. I much prefer the way Adobe handles M/pages in InDesign rather than the way Serif does it in P/Plus both work but it is more intuitive in ID. So +1 if you really mean master page layout.

Setting up imposition by hand for home printing anything more than one folded sheet is very difficult. Even simple one sheet folded documents, like Mike's example, need to be adjusted for home printing in the way that Frances suggests with two double-page spreads in the page order (4, 1) then (2,3).

And even after you have manually setup pages in the correct order there are further problems for home printing: Automatic page numbering won't work. If text flows from page 3 to page 4 that flow has to go from the last page to the first - not a problem technically but not very intuitive. And finally, printing the correct content to the front side and reverse side of the correct sheets requires careful thinking and careful paper handling (if your printer is not full-duplex) and depends on whether your printer lays the sheets printed side down or printed side up.

Clearly the program could make this all a lot easier for users and so there is a very valid case for implementing a facing pages display mode and imposition in the printing system - even though, as Mike says, professional printing would not normally use the imposition implemented by the program.

A proper facing pages display would enable you to see the correct left and right handedness of single pages and to see which pages are adjacent in the final printed document and thus could have content spanning the join between them.


("Imposition" is the technical printing term for deciding the order of what page from the document goes on what piece of paper so that when the paper is cut and/or folded the reading order is as intended.)

Imposition and facing pages are not directly related to master pages.

Phil

For which reason as regards true imposition, I use an Acrobat plug-in.

One would also need to incorporate asymmetric bleeds as well. For instance, if one has cross-overs and intends on POD printing, there has to be a clear area at the spine with no ink. Easy enough to do with imposition software, but currently no POD print establishments' automated imposition software handles it. It's even a hassle to do in ID & QXP, currently impossible to do in PP, CD, etc.

But really, for most "home" or office printing, just using Acrobat's or Reader's print booklet feature handles it just fine. Export single pages in reader order, print either automatic or manual duplex from the print dialog.

With the exception X number of pages brochure. Then laying out at the cut size, which has been done since I began this madness in 1989, works well enough. With larger (page number wise) documents, use a page layout application. It's what they are made for. One still needs to understand about inside bleeds for PODs if they are needed, but that too can be dealt with in some manner.

Mike

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PhilM

...master pages.

---

Are still a separate, but good, idea.

To be honest, it's one of the functions that to me makes WebPlus easier to design a web site. And one reason laying out a print publication is easier in PagePlus, ID, QXP--and if one must, CD.