Google Chrome does not render WS4 Menus

Google Chrome does not render drop-down or fly-out menus that have been created with Webstyle 4.

Example (This only applies to menus created with Webstyle 4)

Assume a site has a menubar running across the top of the page. Some (or all) of the menu items contain sub-items. In IE, Firefox and Opera when the mouse cursor is placed over the top menu the menu sub-items will drop down immediately beneath the top menu item. This is normal behaviour.

In Google Chrome, when the mouse cursor is placed over the top menu item, the menu sub-items don't drop down beneath the top menu item but appear at a random place anywhere on the page.

The exact same behaviour applies to fly-out menus.

Assume a menu on the left of the page which contains sub-items. Normal behaviour is that when the mouse cursor is placed over the menu item the sub-items will be displayed adjacent to the menu item. In Google Chrome the sub-items appear anywhere at random on the page but not adjacent to the menu item.

This is a big problem for anyone who has developed site menus using Webstyle 4.

T.

Google Chrome is very much early public beta.
I'd wait until newer versions are released before considering it a mainstream browser.

Did you use the 'Report a bug or broken website..' feature of Chrome to alert Google?

I agree that these are early days for Chrome. And to answer your question, yes I have reported it to Google.

JavaScript has been with us since the very early days of the Internet and as a programming language it is a mature, well-defined and established part of web development. If Chrome is not rendering certain JS-based functions correctly, then that is a major concern, because this lies deep within the core of the browser and is not just an "oops lets fix it" type of issue.

As a test I created sample drop-down and fly-out menus but did not use WS4. These were rendered perfectly by Chrome. So at this stage it appears as if the rendering problem may be confined to menus created using WS4. That would be a major problem, because it is extremely unlikely that Google will modify core code in Chrome to accommodate sites developed using WS4.

WS4 drop-down and fly-out menus have worked without any issues for years in all versions of IE, Firefox and Opera. Developers should therefore be confident that the WS4 code is standards-compliant and is robust and that any problems are browser-related and not WS4-related.

However, I believe that it is incumbent upon Xara to assign some resources to investigate the cause of this issue. If it is a WS4 problem then we need a fix. If it is a Chrome problem then Xara need to exert pressure on Google to rectify the browser rendering engine.

It is almost certain that Chrome will become a major browser within 3 years, so core issues like this need to be addressed early in the process. It will be too late once the core code in Chrome is finalised.

T.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tabvla

However, I believe that it is incumbent upon Xara to assign some resources to investigate the cause of this issue. If it is a WS4 problem then we need a fix. If it is a Chrome problem then Xara need to exert pressure on Google to rectify the browser rendering engine.

---

One of the problems web masters thought was about to happen was "Oh no! Not ANOTHER browser to make may page work with" But the Chrome team made sure this wasn't the case by using the same open source webkit browser renderer that Safari also uses, therefore anything that works in Safari will work in Chrome.
If you view the Google announcment video you will hear the guys speak about this and more. Interesting stuff by the way.

Google Chrome announcement (52 minutes)


In so far as Webstyler being updated? I couldn't really say, though I believe there have been no updates to this older app in 4 years or so. Now that Magix are a major factor it remains to be seen as to whether webstyler will receive any attention at all, given that the move to XaraXtreme4 html output has been made.

Hi Steve

Thanks for your insight and the link to the video.

I still think (Magix or not) that Xara has a responsibility here. WS4 is still being actively sold, so presumably there are budding developers out there that are laying out their cash. In fact Xara frequently promote WS4 in magazines and by email. This is not an "old" product or "old" version of a product that needs to be pensioned off. There is probably a legal and certainly a moral obilgation by Xara to fix WS4 if it transpires that the problem lies with WS4 and not Chrome.

The real problem I suppose is that most developers that use WS4 realise that it is not W3C compliant. Just try running a validation against a site that incorporates menus created with WS4 and the validation tool will have a seizure!! But.... those of us who use it and love it also know that it renders perfectly in all the popular browsers - IE, FF and Opera.

Xara are well known for creating outstanding products - and I own every single product that Xara has ever produced - so I know what I am talking about. What Xara is not good at is Support or bug-fixing. And to be fair the reason for that is that they probably don't do a lot of bug-fixing as their products tend to work "out-of-the-box".

I don't know too much about the Webkit Browser toolkit, so I won't show my ignorance by commenting :) What I do know about is how the vast majority of developers think when it comes to testing websites. If it works in IE and Firefox many developers won't bother to test any further. The more dedicated will also test in Opera. And then a few - perhaps 10% - will test in Safari. For many if it works in Safari that is good news, if it doesn't they don't care. I am not advocating that attitude of mind, but simply stating the way things are.

In this one critical respect Chrome is different to Safari. It really does matter that sites are Chrome-compatible. I will bet a months pay on Chrome becoming a very serious contender for top-dog within 3 years. Google have the money; the technical expertise; the marketing knowledge and the user-base to dominate the browser market.

I think that the message is clear. Websites had better work with Chrome.

Xara have a real responsibility to investigate this and if the problem lies with WS4 then either they should fix it or they should remove it from the product line.

T.

Hi Tabvla

I think you are jumping the gun a bit :) as Steve says Chrome is beta - long way to go yet.

In any event, unless Xara sell the software stated compatible with all known browsers, and/or sold it to be compatible with all future browsers, there is no obligation here on them that I can see, legal or moral.

If xara/magix wish to carry on selling it there may be commercial pressure - but again like Steve I see the introduction of HTML into xtreme as an indicator that WS may well be on the way out...

I for one shall be very interested to see how far this browser goes - Google is no better than Microsoft to many, and as for those who don't see a problem with either, will they bother to change ?

Hi Steve & Steve

Thanks for your feedback and sharing your views. Always interesting to hear the opinions of others.

I suppose it is time for me to put my money where my mouth is :p .... so here's the deal - I will buy each of you a case of French wines if this prediction is wrong - I predict that in 3 years from now Chrome will have captured 20% of the browser market - that is a big slice!

I have had a prolonged tour through IE8 and I am impressed. Microsoft at last seem to be taking the browser market seriously. IE8 (beta) has more bugs than the Everglades - but once these are sorted I believe that IE8 will be widely approved of by the corporate market. This is a serious piece of software.

So why am I so confident about the chances of Chrome. Well, just take a look under the hood. Chrome brings in a whole new approach to browser design. This approach will almost certainly make the entire concept of "everything online" a much more feasible reality. I like it. This is smart programming.

We live in interesting times..... :D

T.

Quote:

---

One of the problems web masters thought was about to happen was "Oh no! Not ANOTHER browser to make may page work with" But the Chrome team made sure this wasn't the case by using the same open source webkit browser renderer that Safari also uses, therefore anything that works in Safari will work in Chrome.
If you view the Google announcment video you will hear the guys speak about this and more. Interesting stuff by the way.

---

Well, I'll play the ball back to you guys ;)

I can reproduce the same problem when using Safari, so this issue is a tad bigger than just "blaming it on beta"

As Safari is the standard browser for MAC users, this needs some "looking into" imho

regards

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ceemosp

I can reproduce the same problem when using Safari

---

Er yeh... Same webkit rendering engine. Why does this surprise you?

Unfortunately, the www.opencube.com QuickMenu ($149) doesn't display well either.

What's weird is that instead of not showing a menu, it shows ALL the menu choices from ALL submenus at the same time. Quickmenu is supposed to work with javascript DISABLED, which is one reason I invested in it, as well as WS4.

But, yes, early beta....expect Chrome to exceed expectations when full v.1 hits the market.

I'm sure WS 4 menus will work when we get close to the first full release.

Rich

Quote:

---

Er yeh... Same webkit rendering engine. Why does this surprise you?

---

I didn't say it surprises me BUT it surprises me that this bug is "brushed away" with a flick of the wrist (other browsers work) instead of being tackled - or did I miss something essential here?

Safari is not really all new PLUS it's the default browser for MAC users. So the question arises if it is wise to lock out MACs from a site by just going the "let's wait and see approach" ?

I think you have the wrong end of the stick here.

No-one is locking anyone out of anything.

Webstyle 4 is old software. It hasn't been updated in years, even well before Safari was released.
Web technologies have changed and been updated several times since, Webstyle 4 hasn't.
There have been no indications that WS will be continued or updated now that Xara Xtreme 4 is being actively developed with HTML export features.

Support for legacy (dying) web technology by newer browsers (iow, those that are *new kids on the block*) is possible (maybe?) but unlikely.

This should be kept in mind when using older software such as Webstyle 4.
(I know nothing about OpenCube so cannot comment there)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rafleet

Unfortunately, the www.opencube.com QuickMenu ($149) doesn't display well either.

---

As said in the previous post I no nothing about OC. I did however visit their website and found no problems when using Chrome with their own nested menus. Of course, I am assuming they are using their own software to create their own navigation menus.

BTW, disabling JS in Chrome for anyone who wants to:
=================================================
In Windows Vista:

C:\Users\%username%\AppData\Local\Google\Chrome\Ap plication\chrome.exe -disable-javascript

In Windows XP:

"C:\Documents and Settings\%username%\Local Settings\Application Data\Google\Chrome" -disable-javascript

Other parameters:
-disable-images
-disable-java
-disable-plugins
-disable-popup-blocking
-start-maximized
==================================================

The problem is not related to the fact that Chrome is an early Beta but rather that it uses the Webkit Rendering Engine, as does Safari. The WRE resolves complex menus differently to the method deployed by IE, Firefox and Opera.

WebStyle 4 by default creates menu-rendering code that conforms to the same standards as used by IE, Firefox and Opera. This means that WS4 menus display correctly in these browsers but incorrectly in browsers that are based on WRE, such as Safari and Chrome.

The key difference is that the standard used by IE, Firefox and Opera renders menus using the "absolute" location whereas the WRE as used by Safari and Chrome renders menus using the "fixed" location.

A possible work-a-round for this problem would be to ask a question within the document.write statement. In simple English the question would read something like this: -

IF the browser is WRE based THEN menu positions are fixed ELSE menu positions are absolute.

In a real website that uses WS4 the real code may read something like the following: -

if {SAF}
document.write(".filename_menu {z-index:999;border-color:#a5c7db;border-style:solid;border-width:"+bd+"px 0px "+bd+"px 0px;background-color:#185a99;position:fixed;left:0px;top:0px;visi bility:hidden;}");
else
document.write(".filename_menu {z-index:999;border-color:#a5c7db;border-style:solid;border-width:"+bd+"px 0px "+bd+"px 0px;background-color:#185a99;position:absolute;left:0px;top:0px;v isibility:hidden;}");

In most cases this modification to the WS4 generated code will enable complex menus to be displayed correctly in IE, Firefox, Opera, Safari and Chrome.

If you implement this fix will you please post your results to this thread so that we can see how successful (or not) this fix is.

T.

149$ for a menu?

free and with good results in modern browsers: ADxMenu

Remi

The following article has been on the xara support site since September

http://support.xara.com/index.php?_m...articleid=2630

This will allow you to overcome the display problems with sub menus of a navbar in Chrome

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tabvla

Google Chrome does not render drop-down or fly-out menus that have been created with Webstyle 4.

Example (This only applies to menus created with Webstyle 4)

Assume a site has a menubar running across the top of the page. Some (or all) of the menu items contain sub-items. In IE, Firefox and Opera when the mouse cursor is placed over the top menu the menu sub-items will drop down immediately beneath the top menu item. This is normal behaviour.

In Google Chrome, when the mouse cursor is placed over the top menu item, the menu sub-items don't drop down beneath the top menu item but appear at a random place anywhere on the page.

The exact same behaviour applies to fly-out menus.

Assume a menu on the left of the page which contains sub-items. Normal behaviour is that when the mouse cursor is placed over the menu item the sub-items will be displayed adjacent to the menu item. In Google Chrome the sub-items appear anywhere at random on the page but not adjacent to the menu item.

This is a big problem for anyone who has developed site menus using Webstyle 4.

T.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ceemosp

Well, I'll play the ball back to you guys ;)

I can reproduce the same problem when using Safari, so this issue is a tad bigger than just "blaming it on beta"

As Safari is the standard browser for MAC users, this needs some "looking into" imho

regards

---

After an intensive search on Internet, I found out that Apple Safari (3.1) does not support Javascript well enough for useable menus.
(More than 100.000 hits on the subject, narrowing the search with "solution" did not bring up any chearfull sounds)

Could be that I overlooked something, but is seems that Apple users will have to deal with first pages of websites, to raise their appetite. They will have to use other computers to see how the webworld develops.

I tried to post a question on the Apple website, only to get an "404 error" when clicking for their support page. Most probably blocked for non-Safari users?

Hi,

Xara Menu Maker menus will not work in Chrome either. The .js file contents for both Webstyle 4 and Menu Maker are really identical - apart from one line made for mozilla and IE problems (which is optional, can be removed) in Webstyle 4.

Yours,
Ty

Perhaps this can help? http://support.xara.com/index.php?_m...&nav=0,454,460

I don't believe Chrome will do anything about WM4 incompatibility.

I got around this problem on my website by using transparency gifs and rollovers.

See the result: http://www.tysaustralia.com

Put the cursor over "Vacation Australia" to see the submenu items.

Try it in IE then Chrome. You see the differerence.

In Chrome the submenu is shown when the cursor is on "Vacation Australia" but it it actually disappears when you move it away. But if you move the cursor under the main menu item it shows the submenu items in transparency and rollover gif format, which works ok. These rollovers are not seen when viewed in IE.

I have discovered that chrome has taken notice and my WM4 menu/submenu does now work on my website: http://www.tysaustralia.com

You will have to make a change in the "mynavnewindex.js" file to make the submenus line up with the main menu item, as follows:


from this,

startSubmenu("mynavnew_b4","mynavnew_menu",98);
submenuItem("Sunshine Coast","javascript:;","","mynavnew_plain");
submenuItem("Gold Coast","javascript:;","","mynavnew_plain");
endSubmenu("mynavnew_b4");

loc="";

to this,

startSubmenu("mynavnew_b4","mynavnew_menu",1);
submenuItem("Sunshine Coast","javascript:;","","mynavnew_plain");
submenuItem("Gold Coast","javascript:;","","mynavnew_plain");
endSubmenu("mynavnew_b4");

loc="";

Note the change from "98" to "1".

Good luck with your webmastering.

This is your solution:

Your mynavnew.js file, or whatever you will name it must look like this,

//©Xara Ltd
if(typeof(loc)=="undefined"||loc==""){var loc="";if(document.body&&document.body.innerHTML){ var tt=document.body.innerHTML;var ml=tt.match(/["']([^'"]*)mynavnew.js["']/i);if(ml && ml.length > 1) loc=ml[1];}}

var bd=0
document.write("<style type=\"text/css\">");

document.write("\n<!--\n");
var tr="filter:alpha(opacity=99);-moz-opacity:0.99;";if(IE5) tr="";

if(SAF)
document.write(".mynavnew_menu {z-index:999;border-color:#000000;border-style:solid;border-width:"+bd+"px 0px "+bd+"px 0px;background-color:#807d5e;position:fixed;left:0px;top:0px;visi bility:hidden;}");
else
document.write(".mynavnew_menu {z-index:999;border-color:#000000;border-style:solid;border-width:"+bd+"px 0px "+bd+"px 0px;background-color:#807d5e;position:absolute;left:0px;top:0px;v isibility:hidden;}");

document.write(".mynavnew_plain, a.mynavnew_plain:link, a.mynavnew_plain:visited{text-align:left;background-color:#807d5e;color:#ffffff;text-decoration:none;border-color:#000000;border-style:solid;border-width:0px "+bd+"px 0px "+bd+"px;padding:2px 0px 2px 0px;cursor:hand;display:block;font-size:8pt;font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;}");

document.write("a.mynavnew_plain:hover, a.mynavnew_plain:active{background-color:#c5b899;color:#000000;text-decoration:none;border-color:#000000;border-style:solid;border-width:0px "+bd+"px 0px "+bd+"px;padding:2px 0px 2px 0px;cursor:hand;display:block;font-size:8pt;font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;}");

document.write("\n-->\n");

document.write("</style>");

var fc=0x000000;
var bc=0xc5b899;
if(typeof(frames)=="undefined"){var frames=0;}

startMainMenu("",0,0,2,0,0)
mainMenuItem("mynavnew_b1",".gif",15,37,"index.htm l","","Home",2,2,"mynavnew_plain");
mainMenuItem("mynavnew_b2",".gif",15,102,"adventur eaustralia.html","","Adventure Australia",2,2,"mynavnew_plain");
mainMenuItem("mynavnew_b3",".gif",15,77,"australia nhistoriography.html","","Historiography",2,2,"myn avnew_plain");
mainMenuItem("mynavnew_b4",".gif",15,94,"australia nculture.html","","Australian Culture",2,2,"mynavnew_plain");
mainMenuItem("mynavnew_b5",".gif",15,95,"vacationa ustralia.html","","Vacation Australia",2,2,"mynavnew_plain");
mainMenuItem("mynavnew_b6",".gif",15,63,"australia nrealestate.html","","Real Estate",2,2,"mynavnew_plain");
mainMenuItem("mynavnew_b7",".gif",15,62,"australia na.html","","Australiana",2,2,"mynavnew_plain");
mainMenuItem("mynavnew_b8",".gif",15,91,"animalsau stralia.html","","Animals Australia",2,2,"mynavnew_plain");
mainMenuItem("mynavnew_b9",".gif",15,64,"australia ntechnology.html","","Technology",2,2,"mynavnew_pl ain");
mainMenuItem("mynavnew_b10",".gif",15,109,"funnyph otos.html","","Funny Animal Photos",2,2,"mynavnew_plain");
mainMenuItem("mynavnew_b11",".gif",15,50,"visitaga in.html","","See yah!",2,2,"mynavnew_plain");
endMainMenu("",0,0);

startSubmenu("mynavnew_b5","mynavnew_menu",95);
submenuItem("Sunshine Coast","http://tysaustralia.com/sunshinecoastqueensland.html","","mynavnew_plain") ;
submenuItem("Gold Coast","goldcoastqueensland.html","","mynavnew_pla in");
endSubmenu("mynavnew_b5");

startSubmenu("mynavnew_b3","mynavnew_menu",111);
submenuItem("Gold Rush Tasmania","goldrushtasmania.html","","mynavnew_pla in");
endSubmenu("mynavnew_b3");

startSubmenu("mynavnew_b1","mynavnew_menu",54);
submenuItem("Blogspot","blogspot/index.html","","mynavnew_plain");
endSubmenu("mynavnew_b1");

loc="";

When you have created your WS4 menu save it to a new folder you create anywhere on your computer.

Open the "aaaaaaa.js" file with Notepad and change the file accordingly, as above.

Save the file back into the same folder (be careful, sometimes Notepad will add ".txt" to the end of ".js". If this happens just rename the file and remove ".txt" leaving "aaaaaaa.js").

Now upload the "aaaaaaa.js" file, the "xaramenu.js" file and all the gif files into the main folder of your website.

Load the gif files also into the "image" folder of your website to make sure you cover all of the addresses you have made with WS4.

You will now find your menu will work correctly in any browser.

Yours,
Ty