what's a good font

In the book 'Creating Killer Web Sites', there's a chapter about fonts. The author, Siegal, lists a number of "Good-Quality Fonts."

His Sans Serif list includes: Avenir, Rotis, Univers, Gill Sans, Myriad, Stone Sans, Futura, Syntax, Frutiger, OCR-B, and Copperplate.

I've looked at many different font sites and these are all so expensive. Is there a way to find a set of these without spending $1000?

What are some other "Good-Quality Fonts"?

And by the way, what is a chargeable font (one you can put on a VISA? ;-)

I'm asking this because I want to use Xara to create a few simple logos for my wife's small business...

In the book 'Creating Killer Web Sites', there's a chapter about fonts. The author, Siegal, lists a number of "Good-Quality Fonts."

His Sans Serif list includes: Avenir, Rotis, Univers, Gill Sans, Myriad, Stone Sans, Futura, Syntax, Frutiger, OCR-B, and Copperplate.

I've looked at many different font sites and these are all so expensive. Is there a way to find a set of these without spending $1000?

What are some other "Good-Quality Fonts"?

And by the way, what is a chargeable font (one you can put on a VISA? ;-)

I'm asking this because I want to use Xara to create a few simple logos for my wife's small business...

Wow, not even a view in 30 minutes. I must work on my title writing skills.

We're just waiting for Gary to answer, but he is a "morning person" so expect reply sometime tomorow.
Lots of our "other hemisphere" friends are fontaholics also.
While you are waiting, check out www.efuse.com
Daniel Will-Harris is CERTAINLY opiniated concerning fonts.

Regards,,,,,, Tad .. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif[/img]

Time for a quick sales plug. You favorite software company also sells fonts on line. Most of the "good fonts" listed are proprietary fonts, with a price tag to match. (Gill Sans and Univers certainly come into that category.) However you can often find very similar fonts under different names. For example Eric is our version of Gill Sans. Have a look at BuyFonts.com

Mick of course is bang on. You can find excellent fonts for between $2-14 (US) on the Xara BuyFonts.com site.

I like to use Microsoft's Verdana, Georgia, Trebuchet MS, and a few others available on Microsoft Web Fonts.

Unlike the fonts that Seigal lists which are all basically print fonts, Microsoft, and otheres such as Bitstream and Adobe, have created fonts especially for use on the Web. They can be used for print as well.

Last time I checked, Microsoft was offering these fonts, and others, for free on their site. These fonts are also included and installed with Microsoft Internet Explorer and other Microsoft products and so are already installed on most peoples' computers so if you use the font face= tag in your site, and the vistor has these fonts installed on her or his computer the fonts will display as editable HTML text.

Gary

Gary Priester

Moderator Person

beehive or bus melt

Gary, I actually like and use all of the fonts you listed. But I'd like to use some of the fonts on Seigal's list. (BTW, Are there any famous logos which use the fonts you mentioned?)

Mick, it would be nice to have a complete list which compares fonts, sort of like, name brand versus generic.

I think you'll find this site helpful in terms of comparing famous name vs. generic...

http://user.glo.be/~gd33771/aliases.html

Some of the other categories are just as fun. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

to find great, original fonts is
Larabie Fonts.

Many are free, but you can also buy entire collections for a very small fee ( $6.99 for most).

I understand he will be retiring the site soon, as he is going into commercial font foundry work, so it might be advisable to check it out soon.

Joelle

The sandcastles of our lives are nothing when compared to the tides of our destinies.

rgremill asked for a list of the BuyFonts.com fonts that are similar in appearance to fonts from other sources. Sorry but the big font foundries are very touchy about such lists. Both ourselves and the foundry that supplies our fonts have had a run-in with some of the big boys in the past. We want to avoid it happening in the future so no list I'm afraid.

Hmm, maybe you could look at my list and suggest some fonts I might be interested in.

Try this, which gives you fonts supplied with certain programs. It will give you some idea of a basic "standard," i.e., many of the names repeat from program to program:

http://www.unleash.com/articles/fonts/fontlist.html

smorg, I was asking for a list of 'quality fonts' from buyfonts.com without any reference to the previously mentioned 'quality fonts'. Is this making any sense?

If you're choosing a font to use/change for a logotype alone, there is no reason to limit yourself to a core set of well-regarded fonts. In fact if you want a distinctive logo you might want to avoid the Old Faithfuls; the world doesn't need any more logos that are just the name of the company in Gill Sans all-caps!

There are plenty of cheaper and free fonts on the web and with software (including Xara), and even the commercial professional fonts are affordable if you only need one weight (as for a logotype). Choose a font where the single name you'll be setting looks pleasing and is appropriate to the business. Make tweaks for distinctiveness, if you like.

Decide for yourself! Not knowing the nature of your wife's business, all I can advise myself is to avoid tacky over-used fonts like Roost/Revue, BrushScript, MS Comic Sans! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Don't feel you need David Siegel's approval - especially in matters of Web. At the time he wrote the first-edition Killer Web Sites, he was still a print designer at heart, desperate for inflexible control of everything on the page and blind to all other concerns. Ooh, used to drive me up the wall he did!

Thanks for your reply Andrew. I'm not going to limit myself to using just the fonts Siegel suggests. I just wanted to either find a place that sells his suggested fonts cheaply or find some alternative fonts which look similar. To buy all of the weights of just one font would cost over $100.

Brushscript must be the most overused font on the planet.

My biggest gripe with Siegel's book was his suggestion about using entry pages and entry tunnels. Can you imagine the web if everyone would have took his suggestions? But, I'll give the guy a break, the book is ancient, it was written in 1996.

Mick, I'm still waiting for your list. I have my credit card standing by.

...but I don't think you're going to get it. When it comes to fonts, the "quality" comes from the foundry/designer and the better sites only offer that kind of quality. I suspect that was the principal reason Siegal listed the fonts that he did, not because the style and/or face alone are "quality." What was popular at the time he wrote his book also played a part in what fonts he listed. Every design book I have gives a different list than Siegal's for those reasons.

I've never used www.buyfonts.com, so if anyone reading this thread has, they would be in a better position to tell you whether this source is "quality." In the design world, quality can also mean fonts that are built right and don't trash your computer trying to work with them, and are licensed according to the law. By that token, Xara Ltd. would have quality fonts.

Just having visited their site, you can spend quite some time browsing their lists of TT and PS fonts to get an idea for what would work for your wife.

As for your determination to get a list, what Gary has given you as his personal preferences is what you're going to get from anybody else: a personal preference list. No one has the time to go through the thousands of fonts at www.buyfonts.com and come up with a list that will satisfy you, least of all Mick, who has already said "no list. If he wants to e-mail you to discuss this in further detail, or you want to e-mail him to pursue this, you're perfectly free to do so.

Having said all of that, I for one would be very interested in seeing what you choose for your wife, even some variations that you wanted to post for critique/comments.

I'm sorry no one seems to have been able to give you what you wanted so far.

smorg,
Mick has already started the list when he said Eric was like Gill Sans.

If he knows his products (which I know he does) he should be able to make a list of "quality" fonts, starting with Eric.

For my wife's logo we are using Trebuchet and Futurist. I think I may post the logo we came up with and get some feedback. She's not happy with it, but I never claimed to be a logo designer (although I play one on Xara!).

Are you planning to start releasing OpenType fonts, with ligatures, small caps and other really necessary functions for true quality type? I'm not buying fonts from you until you do that - but if you start selling good OT fonts, I'm quite willing to pay more than your present prices for TT/T1 fonts.


K

<blockquote>My biggest gripe with Siegel's book was his suggestion about using entry pages and exit tunnels.</blockquote>

Indeed. That's one of the more egregious symptoms of this common form of designer-misthinking, wanting to control the user's entire experience^* from entering to leaving the site. Of course people just don't browse that way.</p><blockquote>I'll give the guy a break, the book is ancient</blockquote>

Yeah, but it wasn't so long ago that good web design was a completely unknown factor! Most frustrating, watching every new lemming take his flawed advice as gospel!</p>

Ah well, he's repented now, eh. And some of the worst excesses of HTML abuse probably helped get some momentum behind CSS, at least.</p>

In conclusion, David Siegel has funny-looking arms.</p>

* - it's still a good rule of thumb that if a designer or marketeer describes their site using the words "user experience", you're in for a bad time and should run away. Very fast.</p>

Sorry been busy recently...
I can't find details of Avenir, Rotis or Stone Sans. The fonts which you might find useful are English, Europe, Straight, Tuwim, and OCR-B (all from our Professional range of fonts). I can't find exact details of Copperplate but as it's described as sans serif, Formal might be a near match.
Disclaimer: I'm not suggesting that these fonts are exact matches for the original commercial fonts.
Reply to Klaus: we don't have any current plans to introduce OpenType fonts. With the present set-up of the site it's difficult to add new types of font. (Adding more fonts of existing types is less of a problem, which is how we could add 300 new fonts earlier this year.)
Mick

Copperplate is one of the fonts in Corel9.
I have it, but see no use for it as it is boring.

A font I like much from the XaraBuyFonts is Oriental.

Chacun a son gout.

that just because you design a web site round a font, your visitors will have it. So unless you are creating gifs for the text in your special font, the user experience will vary.

www.thelondonhouse.co.uk

Mick, thanks for the list!

Simon, the fonts are for making logos.