Multi-person editing of a web site

I just read the Feb/09 edition of Outsider, in particular about the soon to be released Web Designer. One suggestion/request is the ability for more than one person to edit the website. Here's my scenario: I set up a web site and eventually transfer responsibility for updates and maintenance to the clients. However, when they need run into a problem or need some major revisions, I take over again from my remote location. Currently, there is no (affordable) web building software that allows this.

There are wiki pages and software like Drupal or Joomla, but my clients find these too hard to learn. The clients are entrepreneurs and not IT people and have limited patience.

I've successfully used a product called WebExpress and can teach someone how to use it in 20-30 minutes, over the phone. It's still the program I use and get clients to buy. Xara Web Designer looks promising especially the drag and drop.

I have tried solutions using synching services to synch the source files between two PCs, but this failed miserably. I've tried zipping the source files together and sending them to the client, but they don't know what to do with the files or where to put them. I've tried posting the source files to a folder on the web server, but the clients don't know what to do with them.

Here's my vision for a solution.
- The software stores the source files on the website
- The software checks and synchs the source files between the PC and the website.
- As edits are done, the HTML gets generated and posted to the website. At the same time, the source files on the web server get updated.
- As for managing the files so two people aren't editing at the same time, it's very simple and low tech: a phone call or email saying "I'm editing the website, I'll let you know when I'm done".

Anyways, I'm still shopping around for a straightforward solution so several people can maintain a website, one that is easy to learn. I hope the Xara developers consider this need and lack of competition.

Hi TonyW,

Welcome to Talkgraphics.

My understanding of this new application is that it does not have built in support similar to Source Safe to share editing in a controlled environment.

More than one person can edit the native file format (the file extension is .web) one at a time by sharing the file between their computers. Each person must have Xara Web Designer installed on their system to edit the source file. The web site must be exported and the new html, graphics, and script files must be upload to the web host after any edits.

Tony

The solution is probably to get people signed up to a 'cloud' service like the Microsoft Live Mesh (which is a beta); you can then share a file - it gets synched to the local folder.

Thanks Bill and Simon,
I've tried variations on the shared/sync'd files. Microsoft had a free service a number of years ago though the name escapes me, but essentially each there was a designated folder on each PC. When there were changes to any files in these folders, the changes were reflected in the folder on the other PC. The problem was that the date of the files reflected when they were sync'd (i.e., when the other end turned on their PC and connected to the Internet) and not when they were edited. I don't recall the exact problem, but the web design software got confused between the dates on the files and it's own internal tracking of revisions and revisions got lost. The solution was not usable.

My solution now is to use VNC, LogMeIn, or TechInLine and remotely operate the client's computer to run the web design software. So there is only one set of source files. But this approach means they can't use their PC while I'm working on the website. Recall I'm talking about small businesses with 1-3 people in the whole operation.

Actually writing this gives me another idea, I can remotely operate the client's PC, zip up and grab the source files, work on them on my PC, then package them up and do 2 FTP sessions (upload to webspace/cloud, then download to the client's PC) and put the files back on their machine without them having to get into the technical details and tying up their PC.

In anycase, thanks for the leads, I'll check them out more closely. Live Mesh has possibilities in other applications.

For the solution I'm looking for, it seems a small step for the web design software to use the same built-in FTP function to optionally upload the source files to the webspace. Then when I go to help the client, the source files are sync'd between the cloud and my PC. After I'm finished, the source files are sync'd back to the cloud. When the client runs the web design software, his/her source files are sync'd with the cloud before any edits to the website. Because the web design software (hint Xara web designer!) is doing the FTPing, it can manage the file time stamps. Anyways, that's how I as a non-techie envisions it, perhaps there is a lot more to it than on the surface.

[update] Live Mesh looks promising. Am experimenting now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stlewis

Tony

The solution is probably to get people signed up to a 'cloud' service like the Microsoft Live Mesh (which is a beta); you can then share a file - it gets synched to the local folder.

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I've been using 'Drop Box' over the last 6 months for similar purposes (not related to Xara software though) and it works very well.
Free for Windows, Mac, and Linux

I think that Bill answered a question that I had already here. But I would like to clarify. Maybe Bill or someone else can verify for me.
Does the web designer export to CSS, just like Xtreme 4 did ? This makes it so you pretty much have to use The web designer program to edit page layouts and such.
And if this is the case then I guess that these files are not easily editable in other html text or WYSIWYG editors ?

Bruce XWD uses absolute positioning CSS layout which is 100% W3C valid

Check the source at http://webdesigner.xara.com/
You will see that it is much cleaner and easier to read by a human than the code Xtreme 4 exports.

I gather that Xara do not believe that source editing is a 21st century thing to do ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sledger

I gather that Xara do not believe that source editing is a 21st century thing to do ;)

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Yes. This is a main point. After all, how many people edit PS files manually nowadays? Or LaTeX? Source codes are for programmers and programs. Not designers for sure.

Microsoft has made it possible for designers to never see code and for programmers to no longer need to design the interface.

Expression Blend can be used by a designer to create a web interface or a Windows application interface. Expression Web 2 can use the web interface to create a web site. Visual Studio 2008 can use the output from Expression Blend to create a Windows application.

Xara Web Designer can do many of the same features of the web abilities of Expression Blend.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tonyw

There are wiki pages and software like Drupal or Joomla, but my clients find these too hard to learn. The clients are entrepreneurs and not IT people and have limited patience.


Here's my vision for a solution.
- The software stores the source files on the website
- The software checks and synchs the source files between the PC and the website.
- As edits are done, the HTML gets generated and posted to the website. At the same time, the source files on the web server get updated.
- As for managing the files so two people aren't editing at the same time, it's very simple and low tech: a phone call or email saying "I'm editing the website, I'll let you know when I'm done".

Anyways, I'm still shopping around for a straightforward solution so several people can maintain a website, one that is easy to learn. I hope the Xara developers consider this need and lack of competition.

---

As one who is in webdesign-business since 2000 (Started with NetObjects Fusion) - created websites with it and teached customers how to edit sites in a minimum of time (Fusion is just simple as Word, but -----
----) as you really realized it:

It is necessarry that more than one person can edit a website
(this can be done, but just like in XARA you have to have the program to edit the site and this is one of the most killing arguments against every software-solution)
So last year after 8 years in business i started with Joomla and of course it was much more difficult to learn for me - but much of my customers who worked former in Fusion now working with Joomla said:
Much more easier than before...
Why is it easier?
Because i combine a pakage just like i had done in my Fusion time:
I create the whole site in Joomla and then i create an user account in the frontend, where the user can do more wrong, because he only can edit texts or add pictures into a site, but the rest doesnt need to be done....

Only this is the future solution and this need more requirements as a good webediting program.
Yes the webdesign features of XARA are great only when i think about how a picture can be positoned in relation to Joomla/Fusion (its a pain) - but if you have to work with more persons on a webpage and changes had to be done in a minimum of time; a CMS system like Joomla/Drupal/ or any other CMS is necesarry, no other webeditor, no matter if it is Dreamweaver or whatever can do this in such a range...

So now i drive on both ways:
For static sites a normal Webeditor and for dynamic pages where more persons have to work on a CMS.
Everything else i a waist of time, because the market needs both.
And if you only work with one tool you're going to loose clients - i know what i'm talking about, i have lost few clients on an other web-agency who working only with a CMS...

Michael

One of the primary strengths of a CMS, like Drupal or Joomla, it the editing capabilities - and let's face it --- for the client - owner/operator - it's all about the text editor, if they have full control of editing the website they are going to go loco at some point, move or delete a bunch of stuff and then call you to fix it. Drupal keeps track of the changes and edits which is nice (change/log) and if it's a case of multiple content editors then a CMS is a must. Which means PHP programming and not a Wysiwyg editor.

Looks like the primary strength of XWD is that if you are a experienced with Xara - then you have a huge advantage now in being able to leverage the graphics software to meet the needs of the "small" website --- which is most websites --- so you can churn out some really strong landing pages and are also able to plug in widgets --- it would be nice if there was an option --- 1. full admin/editor mode and 2. text only, perhaps in a future release.

I LOVE THE REPEL FEATURE!:D