Upgrade Xara pro19?

Just had email notice regarding update of Xara designer pro x being upgraded to V20. Visited the site with expectations of "upgrade" only to find little or minimal information other than the "discounted" price of £120+vat. and
NEW
New Interface
NEW
Customizable Tables
NEW
Import data from spreadsheets
NEW
Widget upgrades
NEW
Multi-language support
IMPROVED
Live Copies
IMPROVED
Web Export
BUT no details or examples of what one is to expect or is included in the purchase price. It does not even appear in their product section so does this mean the death of xara designer pro x? Or a marketing ploy to sell a pig in a poke?
Ken

it's not officially released [launched] until 'next week' it probably says this in the email you received, it did in the one I got

release notes will probably follow when it is official

meanwhile I upgraded at the offer price, I was always going to upgrade out of the magix product, and the 'full price' of over 300 GBP if you include UK VAT is high to say the least

...it seems to me that, except for the exclusions mentioned in the email link, xara designer pro 20 [perpetual] has most of the features listed in designer pro+ release notes up to march 23; in any case some of the said exceptions were not released until after march

could be wrong but there is certainly a lot more than in version 19

and I expect, as said, that release notes will be updated one way or another before too long...

http://releasenotes.xara.hosting/des...plus/index.htm

The further detail is on https://www.xara.com/designerpro/v20/.

Some of its detail:

Font Selection
Automatically find and apply installed fonts with special characters.

Working with tables
Now you can design tables, product sheets, and invoices in Xara, use and edit them in PowerPoint and MS Word documents.

Copy external data into Xara
Copy and paste data from spreadsheets or other external sources into your Xara tables; for accurate and beautiful marketing and sales docs.

Fully Customizable tables
Re-order rows & columns with a simple click & drag, paste multi-line text from spreadsheets and copy cells from one table to another.

CMYK Color Profile Control
The Color Profile used to display CMYK colors on screen and on export can now be controlled for each document, via the View tab of the Options dialog

Fast-loading lines and brushes
Previous versions of Xara experienced a delay in loading the Line Gallery which in some cases also caused the current selection to be lost.

Widgets got more accessible
Using Widgets, Symbol Picker, Google Font Finder and the Erase Tool Guide are now accessible with the latest Microsoft Edge technology for a smooth workflow and widest range of widgets like PayPal and YouTube.

Align Toolbar
The distribute options on the Align Toolbar have been changed from Distribute centers, to Distribute equally spaced, a more common requirement because it works well with objects of different sizes.

A superior mobile experience
Page animations got improved on pages with vertical scrolling. A vertical swipe will no longer changes page on pages with vertical scrolling or if text selected.

Show readers where they stand
Now you can automatically show total pages alongside current page, for example Page 3 of 44. Just go Insert > Page Count. You can enter complex numbered lists, including a parent number.

Export as SVG
Export more types of graphical object to web using SVG instead of having to make separate bitmap image files for each one. As a result your website and web documents load faster.

New Repeating Objects option
The Repeating Objects feature now offers a ‘Make Repeating’ option. This turns the current selected object into a Repeating Object, without automatically copying it to all pages - you can then copy it onto selected pages.

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If you purchase before year end, you have a 60% discount for a perpetual licence - with no updates. It is also many releases behind Xara Designer Pro Plus (subscription). The latter is updated about bi-monthly (6 times a year0.
v20 is missing SVG element rendering for HTML and oodles of improvements that Pro Plus currently has. Expect a similar v21 upgrade cost, if it appears in a year's time.

You therefore have a cost and capability trade-off.
v20 --- £120/y (discount [60MAGIXV20])& behind by about two years.
Pro+ --- £108 (first year discount [40PLUS]) but £180/y thereafter & fully up-to-date. Xara usually offers attractive discounts every year.
So costs are almost on parity.
The lag will always put you a further £240 out-of-pocket, if you drop the subscription and want to have almost identical functionality.

My personal opinion, if you are a professional designer go for Cloud Pro+ - £204/y, but haggle with Xara for the Designer Pro+ discount. Give up a shop coffee each week to pay for it.
If you are a hobbyist (or the professional designer above) then get v20 and buy an upgrade every couple of years.

tl;dr Pay £200/y subscription for the latest and/or £100/y for a perpetual licence with a 2-year lag in function.

Acorn

P.S. Either path brings in Xara Support, making Magix a dim past.

thanks for that acorn, the link you give is the link in the email I received...

as ever, it boils down to what you want the program for

if it will do what you want for the forseeable future, the perpetual version is a fair option, as xara say in so many words; and it avoids getting locked into features you many not have really needed, but then have to stick with

I dislike the broad-brush catagorisation that the perpetual version is for hobbists; a professional graphics designer or web designer may think that, those in other disciplines may not...

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...making Magix a dim past...

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this however is a win-win :D

Thanks guys for that information (especially Acorn) why on earth this was not made easily available on the Xara website I will never know but only guess as a slow phasing out of designer pro but hey ho that's progress I suppose.
I think I will go for the V20 update.

Thanks again for the info and have a great Christmas and hopefully a better New Year
Cheers
Ken

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Originally Posted by mentorman

... have a great Christmas and hopefully a better New Year

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you are welcome, and wish you all the best too

xara marketing has always been 'interesting' :)

I love your signature, Nothing lasts forever lol

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Originally Posted by handrawn

you are welcome, and wish you all the best too

xara marketing has always been 'interesting' :)

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but of course... nothing else does :nerd:

> v20 --- £120/y (discount [60MAGIXV20])& behind by about two years.

That's outrageous. Xara are clearly trying to phase out perpetual licences if the are deliberately making the perpetual licenses 2 years out-of-date. :[

I have told Xara that being a self-employed user with unpredictable workload, I shall never EVER buy a subscription to any piece of software.

i.e. My view is that each and every time that they want more money from me, they will have to earn it with some new work that is of value.

They have been telling me that V20 "is a significant upgrade from v19." but if it is deliberately being kept behind by "about 2 years" that is not acceptable.


Decision: OK, I'll tell Xara that if & when they bring V20 up-to-date with the features in Pro+, then I would be delighted to pay the £120.

J

no one says you have to buy it

I did, but that was my decision, for me it was worth it

if you have read my post #3 in this thread you will see that I consider [having read the release notes such as they are] that it is currently about March23

I presume what xara mean is that it will be about March25 before they offer another perpetual version, ie two years out, but that is a presumption

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Originally Posted by shiphen

Decision: OK, I'll tell Xara that if & when they bring V20 up-to-date with the features in Pro+, then I would be delighted to pay the £120.

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but that cannot be

if the peretual and the pro+ are always at the same point, what is the point of having both; you either pay subscription for 'cutting-edge' or you don't, xara is by no means the only program where this is the case

emptoris arbitrium

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Originally Posted by handrawn

but that cannot be

if the peretual and the pro+ are always at the same point, what is the point of having both; you either pay subscription for 'cutting-edge' or you don't, xara is by no means the only program where this is the case

emptoris arbitrium

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Correct. There is indeed no point in buying two version of the same thing at the same time.
What we are discussing here is financing.

J

it is for xara to decide the price point at which they wish to sell a product, and for us to decide whether to pay it - some will, some won't; if not enough do then xara may change tack by either reducing the price or dropping the product; this is market forces

if you think the price too much for you, for what you are offered, that is your right and your budgeting

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Originally Posted by handrawn

if you think the price too much for you, for what you are offered, that is your right and your budgeting

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if you think the price too much for the product, for what you are offered, that is...

Fixed it for you. We all know the product, none know shiphen's situation.

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Originally Posted by ChrisM

if you think the price too much for the product, for what you are offered, that is...

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sorry chris, I'm not sure what distinction you are making here; the product is implicit in what I said, although if it is not clear then i apologise...

now here is the long answer:

in the context of this thread xara are not helping themselves by saying perpetual20 is behind pro+ - I can see why they do it because they wish to major on the subscription model, but really a more constructive way of looking at it here is that the pro+ version is ahead of perpetual20 and to be ahead you need to pay subscription; they have said as much elsewhere

with that in mind, the perpetual20 version is still ahead of magix version 19 in features and you get xara support instead of magix, you can forget about magix altogether - so perpetual20 can be considered as an upgrade to version 19 in the way it used to be before magix; ok - it may not be annual, and it may be at a higher offer/loyalty/call-it what-you-like for existing customers price, but everything is going up; I have no means of determining if it is a fair price [however that may be defined] and compared to, say affinity, it is more costly sure, but this is the way xara's business model is

120 + VAT is 144 GBP a year, is 12 GBP a month, is around 2.75 GBP a week which is, as another member here has already pointed out in regard to pro+, less than a cup of coffee at costa/starbucks/et-al; even where i live, let alone in the city

no I don't know shiphens's situation and I have [I hope] carefully avoided comment on what that might be, which is not my place; what I was taking issue with is conflating the feature set of perpetual with the the feature set of pro+ at a given point in time - shiphen clarified that point and then said it is the price [finance] he has issue with; I replied that it is as it is; xara may take his opinion on board, or they may not, again that should be implicit; and so that is as far as it goes...?

Yes, the subscription model may suit regular users, and the accountants of software developers love it (!), but as I have explained it does not suit irregular users.

In truth the subscription model is a great rip-off to many people who either forget that they have subscribed (it always adds up to more than you think) or people who it turns out may not use the product for many months.


Yes, coffee is arguably grossly over-priced too. e.g. Since your raise it, if I had a Starbucks Latte every day for a year it would cost £1,226.40 (from £3.36 x365)


But forget money, within this context I value my own time more than I value my money. And over the years, I have invested a lot of my own time learning Xara Designer and I don't particularly want to learn another system just because of the idiots who run software developers.

e.g. I tried Affinity Designer but found the UI almost unusable.
e.g. A lot of professional designers seem to use Adobe Illustrator. Looking over the shoulder of my designer I thought that it looks quite impressive, (at least lines terminate at the point of the arrows heads! ;^P )... however suffers from the "Licensing virus" and can only be rented... for about GBP 260/year last time I looked.


Xara has been a wonderful product but over the years, their senior managers have made a LOT of poor decisions. (e.g. Anyone remember the dreadful deal they did with Corel - who had vastly inferior product called CorelDraw... but who took Xara off at the knee-caps by [deliberately?] failing to promote it... )

Either way as a matter of principle, I shall never rent software, personally I choose to only ever pay a fixed amount of money for the work that has gone into a product.

Yes, I don't HAVE to buy Xara. I have been a Xara user since Xara Studio - about 1996 - and I have been telling anyone who will listen how good it is for many years.

However despite my broad loyalty, Xara have mostly failed to return the compliment and in my opinion have their upgrades have been GROSSLY overpriced compared to the value that I get out of them. For this reason I have skipped most of the upgrades.


XARA FEEDBACK

Meanwhile back to Xara v20, the Xara operative Matt says the following:

"... Xara v20 software license has most of the features in the Plus v23 product except for some recent releases and Modular Websites / Blocks."

"Thus Xara v20 is 'broadly' up to date with many of the Plus releases in 2023."

And he feel that the idea that v20 is "a couple of years" behind Xara Designer Plus is "completely inaccurate".


IS v20 WORTH IT?
It sounds like the jury is out. So I shall wait until I have a more pressing need for Xara before I upgrade.


J


PS Fwiw, one of the main things I like to use Xara for is editing PDFs. I also like using Xara for simple 2D engineering visualisations. This is mainly because I am used to it... and because I like the way that rotations, transparency, anti-aliasing work. (Weaknesses: Arrowheads on lines have always worked 'incorrectly'. Circular radiuses are almost impossible to draw... but Xara have never seemed interested in fixing either problem.)

thanks for passing on Matt's comments; Matt by the way is xara's CEO, I guess you might call him an operative, but he is one helpful guy

I tell you this: I truely value my own time so i would never worry about losing out on what for me are small sums because life is too short; I appreciate you think differently and i respect that

btw: there is coffee... and there is coffee; and in business overheads have to be factored in ;)

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Originally Posted by handrawn

...it seems to me that, except for the exclusions mentioned in the email link, xara designer pro 20 [perpetual] has most of the features listed in designer pro+ release notes up to march 23; in any case some of the said exceptions were not released until after march... ...could be wrong but there is certainly a lot more than in version 19

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It is good to hear that v20's upgrade will not leave users 2 years behind the Plus versions.
We had the 'strange' Xara Web Designer 19.0.2.67264 P x64 Jul 21 2023 and eventually v20 Perpetual around 12 November 2023. Neither were especially marketed to us in great detail.
I accept @handrawn's assessment that v20 Perpetual is roughly equivalent to a Plus version around March.
This would be v23.0, 13 March 2023, as that precedes the introduction of Web Blocks in v23.1 as at 24 May 2023.

We have had no confirmation that v20 will be upgraded annually but pricing seems this is a good guess.

Well if v20 Perpetual equates to Plus v23.0 then by 12 November, it is necessarily behind Plus v23.5, 14 November 2023 on its release by 8 months and six updates.
If v20 Perpetual goes to v21 next November then v20 will have been 20 months behind. My original "behind by about two years" is not that far out.
You might generously put it that the Perpetual version will at best be 6 months behind and at worst 18 months behind, under favourable circumstances.

I would like three statements from Xara around the Perpetual product:
1. The upgrade period.
2. When Bugs will be remedied.
3. Whether Perpetual will only ever be one product unlike Plus variant.

Acorn

I would also be interested to know the official answers to Acorn’s questions.

I did find this page on Xara’s website talking about “Legacy products’’ although not sure if it’s just an old rogue/obsolete webpage left over from the Magix era.

https://www.xara.com/compare-plusplans/

It contains the following bullet points:

• Standard Features The basics to get design done.
• Higher upfront commitment Buy one version and own it. Purchase yearly upgrades.
• Yearly Upgrade Simple improvements & fixes

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Originally Posted by Acorn

My original "behind by about two years"

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that was you... somehow I thought it was xara's estimate... sorry

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1. The upgrade period.
2. When Bugs will be remedied.
3. Whether Perpetual will only ever be one product unlike Plus variant.

Acorn

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+1

specifically bug fixes

@ jono

pretty sure 'legacy' is magix

XDA20 perpetual is not legacy

One of the things that really bothers me is that Xara is charging a price that was comparable to the upgrade price in the past but the program is 2 versions old. There is no way I can justify paying for this when it is this far out of date.

It is one of the reason Affinity is a better option if you are not doing web sites.

Ray

Only the price is terribly high, I already bought XARA several times, 10, 11, 15, 18 I sent XARA enough money and now I have to buy again for 120 euro almost the same version (20) that I have (19) and that's without Online catalog and no updates. Now there is an error and if there are no updates, the error will probably remain there. It's a shame. I don't make a living from the web, I work for the non-profit sector, so XARA will no longer receive money from me.

Start looking around for a product that fits in this niche and you'll waste more time, money and effort than just shelling out for the perpetual version. I was back on 19 and hadn't upgraded for the past two years. I love Xara but the lack of new features each year were hard to justify an annual upgrade and it served my purposes just fine. There are plenty of resources available that made the catalog something I didn't need to subscribe to. Here's my take: Xara has reluctantly released the perpetual version. I'm not seeing any passion for it from their end. Obviously, they want everyone on subscription if they had their druthers. I took the dive and now have it installed on my desktop and laptop. It was a good investment from 19 imho and even though I'm not one into straining at gnats and comparing every little feature, it seems to be much more of an upgrade than being a couple of "versions" behind the subscription version. I will assume that as long as there's money to be made holding onto people like me, they will continue to release future versions. But, I'm not banking on it. It seems it will be a guessing game from here on out, but in this day and age what isn't?

Matt here, the operative. I heard that about a wild thread in TG, looks like I've found it.

Xara v20 (now sold and supported directly by Xara) was based on Plus 23.5.0 (Nov 2023) without features related to Modular Websites and Blocks that are exclusive to the Plus editions. There might be a few other minor items, fixes, etc that didn't make the release as well. Release note links below.

We will determine if a maintenance update for v20 is required at a future date.

Xara v20 and Xara Plus products are based on Xara installers, Xara software updater, and Xara accounts as highlighted in the link above. Magix versions will be Magix.

As always, you can reach us through the chat on www.xara.com or via email at www.xara.com/contact-us. Happy to discuss your situation.

Happy holidays. <:)
Matt

More information
Designer Pro Release Notes and Product Page
Web Designer Release Notes and Product Page
Photo Designer Release Notes and Product Page

thanks for the update

et tu....Attachment 134349

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Originally Posted by RKissane

One of the things that really bothers me is that Xara is charging a price that was comparable to the upgrade price in the past but the program is 2 versions old. There is no way I can justify paying for this when it is this far out of date.

It is one of the reason Affinity is a better option if you are not doing web sites.

Ray

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Hi Ray,

Xara v20 being 2 versions old is not accurate.
https://www.talkgraphics.com/showthr...373#post658373

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Originally Posted by Spamiky

Only the price is terribly high, I already bought XARA several times, 10, 11, 15, 18 I sent XARA enough money and now I have to buy again for 120 euro almost the same version (20) that I have (19) and that's without Online catalog and no updates. Now there is an error and if there are no updates, the error will probably remain there. It's a shame. I don't make a living from the web, I work for the non-profit sector, so XARA will no longer receive money from me.

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Xara v20 is not 'almost the same' as v19. See the release notes.
https://www.talkgraphics.com/showthr...373#post658373

The 'error' on Magix v19 or older, I assume that you are referring to the Magix Update Service expiration notice. As mentioned, this is all Magix technology so it would be best to contact them to see if it can be turned off.
https://www.talkgraphics.com/showthr...373#post658373

Did you know that Xara has non-profit and educational pricing options?
As always, contact us through the chat at www.xara.com or email at www.xara.com/contact-us

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Originally Posted by MB365

Hi Ray, Xara v20 being 2 versions old is not accurate.
https://www.talkgraphics.com/showthr...373#post658373

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@Matt, thank you for the Product page links, advising the current offer prices and new v20 products.

When the Thread was started we had scant information on a nascent v19 that seemingly came to nothing. The Thread has been reflecting people's perceptions at the time.
The Product pages were published around 12 December and the Release Notes on 15 December though I think we discover the one Product Page around 05 December.
The Product pages seemingly are not integrated into your website. If they are I apologise. If not, those who never touch TG and possibly a few that do will still have no idea of what's afoot.
The Release Notes are more detailed that what the normally get with Plus upgrades so you have my appreciation.

Acorn

the email I received on the 4th December said 'The secret's out. Designer Pro v20 launches next week' - if it has been launched I missed it :D - perhaps it was notified elsewhere?

I didn't even get the email :-)

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Originally Posted by Spamiky

I didn't even get the email :-)

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Assuming I have the right email, you unsubscribed from Xara emails over two years ago. :rolleyes:

As always, please contact us through the chat at www.xara.com or www.xara.com/contact-us so we can help.

If version 20 does not have the Web blocks, only + versions have the Web blocks, would you still be able to use version 20 to make changes to a web sites that has had Web blocks used in it?

Thanks
Ray.

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Originally Posted by RKissane

If version 20 does not have the Web blocks, only + versions have the Web blocks, would you still be able to use version 20 to make changes to a web sites that has had Web blocks used in it? Thanks Ray.

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Ray, in v20 or earlier, I am sure you could still see the WB on the design page but they would appear without the full functionality.

I just tried all the way back to v11 and the items inside a WB can be manipulated regarding their placement.
You do not have the controls to change padding and other aspects.

So it looks promising.

Acorn