On Line Etiquette

I have noticed that many of us appear to be getting a bit testy with one another of late. And while one or two of the examples of this lack of on-line restraint have been well deserved, most have really come from a failure to communicate.

Ross made an attempt at this topic some months ago rather eloquently, but it seems a good time to bring it up again.

We are here to learn, share ideas and images, and to enjoy the company of one another. The Xara Conferences are our little private world where people from all over the world (see Bruce's post Where Are You come to talk about Xara and to get to know one another. We are a little international community.

This is really cool.

But sometimes, and I fully admit my own guilt here, we get a little angry and say things in writing that we would never say to someone in person.

This is not cool.

So, without going on and on, I think you get the idea. Let's all try to make nice with one another, even if you think the other guy is a jerk and we don't agree with her or him.

I am going to make a fresh start and I invite all of you to join me. Before you press the Post Now button, read your message again and see if it says what you think it says. If you are joking, use one of the Instant Smilies to show that you are joking as you would smile if you were talking to this person face to face.

If you need help on something, by all means ask. We have more talented and knowledgable people in this conference than you can possibly imagine, who are eager to help. Try to ask your question in a very direct manner.

OK?

Gary

Gary Priester

Moderator Person

<a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~garypriester">
he tub mob relieves</a>

I have noticed that many of us appear to be getting a bit testy with one another of late. And while one or two of the examples of this lack of on-line restraint have been well deserved, most have really come from a failure to communicate.

Ross made an attempt at this topic some months ago rather eloquently, but it seems a good time to bring it up again.

We are here to learn, share ideas and images, and to enjoy the company of one another. The Xara Conferences are our little private world where people from all over the world (see Bruce's post Where Are You come to talk about Xara and to get to know one another. We are a little international community.

This is really cool.

But sometimes, and I fully admit my own guilt here, we get a little angry and say things in writing that we would never say to someone in person.

This is not cool.

So, without going on and on, I think you get the idea. Let's all try to make nice with one another, even if you think the other guy is a jerk and we don't agree with her or him.

I am going to make a fresh start and I invite all of you to join me. Before you press the Post Now button, read your message again and see if it says what you think it says. If you are joking, use one of the Instant Smilies to show that you are joking as you would smile if you were talking to this person face to face.

If you need help on something, by all means ask. We have more talented and knowledgable people in this conference than you can possibly imagine, who are eager to help. Try to ask your question in a very direct manner.

OK?

Gary

Gary Priester

Moderator Person

<a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~garypriester">
he tub mob relieves</a>

I agree with you Gary. I know as artists or creative people we can all be sensitive to the words of others. We should all be careful of the words that we post. If you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all. In a way we are also representing the Xara community when we post here. Let's keep it a nice and friendly place that anyone would feel comfortable to visit and and ask for help.

Gary now you are sounding like true humble moderator person. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

Post unto others as you would have them post unto you.

Although nothing and nowhere in life is perfect, I believe we come closer than most. I agree Gary, let's keep striving for perfection here, we can't set our goals higher!

Steve Newport

I visit these forums to view members techniques and images. I hate wading thru reams of flaming text. It's also very counter productive, keeping away possible posters, who just lurk and read the threads without posting. We should be doing all we can to encourage their input.

... once again, Egg! You are brilliant!

It is tricky for people that do not have English as their first language to always be on the mark with what they try to express.

I'm signing on, also! I will only be positive and helpful from now on...

... except when the other guy is being a total a**hole [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img]

Risto

diri@videotron.ca

Thank goodness someone has come out and said something. I visit this forum most evenings and I too have noticed the general trend in recent weeks. Sadly I can put my hand up as being one guilty of getting upset by things people have said. Hopefully I've responded in a tactful way and not upset anyone. I do try hard because I do NOT like upsetting ANYONE let alone those who try to help when I need it. Sometimes it's very hard to control what you say but for the sake of the forum lets all try a bit harder to be civil to one another.

Thanks Gary - thanks for starting this thread - it was needed.

Tracey

All over the internet you see much worse than here, and, gee I don't know, but I think sometimes the conflicts between people bring them closer to each other. And sanitized communications distance everyone. I think a certain amount of conflict is healthy. It humanizes the forum. We just have to be mature enough to handle it. And I think we are. I've seen conflict after conflict meet with resolution here. Something wrong with that?

Don't shoot X-men, don't shoot. See the little smiley face ...<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>.. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] ..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I totally agree with EVERYONE, including Deb, because one can argue and still be civil (well, maybe)

Rgds.....Tad.. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

I'm happy to listen to one person's point of view, however irate or offensive, what's boring is when other people react to it and an argument ensues. As Xara becomes more mainstream and this forum becomes more popular, we're bound to encounter more diverse clientele who aren't familiar with our genteel way of doing things. IMO, it's the responsibility of the senior members (anybody who is familiar) to not react and to try to reply without bias. Possibly easier said than done!

Regards - Sean

You nailed it... It's about Graphics and Art.

Not Rikki Lake or Springer...

But someone brought up "Civil War?"

"CIVIL WAR," GUNS 'N' ROSES. Damn Good Song! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

In all my different activities I meet different persons from different countries and with different backgrounds. I have found this forum is a splendid place to learn how to respect all differences!

Very friendly to all!

ivan

I never ever reject a good old-fashioned quality s-word-s duel. Just it must be decent, funny and opponents must respect each other. Have you ever heard of famous Monkey Island swords duels? ;-))

I'm proud to say I've never ever used a bloody smiley icon here. Do you guys want to see Jens and Frank and me becomy kindly, wishy-washy, Captain Kangaroos? Why be so afraid of some harsh words now and then? "Sticks and stones can break your bones, but words can never hurt you." These forums are staggeringly constructive, informative and entertaining - which is why ***I*** keep returning. So don't throttle the feeling of "energy" we have here by carping too much on bloody niceness-etiquettte!


K
www.pixpush.com/x-art

I just don't know. I use smiley faces with my posts and still I get accussed of being annoying and turned into Gary. There are people who will be offended by anything you type. Just breathing is annoying to them.

I don't agree. Humans are fragile, word can hurt exactly as much as weapon.

Dmagician,

"I don't agree. Humans are fragile, word can hurt exactly as much as weapon."

You're using words metaphorically, not literally - psychological "hurt" is NOT in the same category as physical "hurt". If I shout at you: "You're an ugly, despicable creep, who's life is not worth a cent!!!" - you are free to walk away and ignore me for the rest of your life. But if I take an ax and wack off your leg, you are NOT free to walk away - and my actions will effect you for the rest of your life.

THAT is the difference captured by that "sticks & stones" saying.

And it is a CRUCIAL difference in human life: among other things, the use or non-use of physical force is what defines the line of demarcation for the infringement of individual rights (but that's politics, and I've promised to not lecture on that here!).

K

Earlier I had posted some thoughts about this forum - perhaps they are the words Gary refers to above. I think the comments are appropriate to this thread so I'll repost:


"We are all individuals. By that I mean we are all different from one another. Coming from vastly different backgrounds and different cultures we do not all share a single point of view. Even if we all tried really hard we can't be 'politically correct' because it damned unlikely any of us are cosmopolitain enough to know what is politically correct in the near global context in which these forums operate. In the absence of political correctness we have to accept (and hopefully encourage) that fellow forum participants will speak up when they are concerned about an 'insensitivity' they perceive. Their speaking up can be educating for all of us.

Anytime someone advises another that they think they have been insensitive, it can be perceived by the recipient as a personal attack. Nobody wants to be insensitive and being accused of it can hurt. I know we all would have or own ways of dealing with such situations. I think in the context of a forum (about graphics) that the most appropriate response is to acknowledge the viewpoint, say 'sorry - no offense was intended', and if you have to - agree to disagree. Hopefully then discussion can move forward and stay reasonably on topic. Rarely in my experience is a counter offensive necessary or desirable.

These forums aren't a very effective place to conduct an arguement - so why start one. I know in many newsgroups some people try to create arguments to liven things up. Here at the talkgraphics.com forums I find discussion is usually lively enough for my taste without any arguements. If anything the arguements 'bum' out many observers to the arguement - it greatly lessens the appeal of participating.

Although I wish there weren't 'arguements' I do hope there is active criticsm. We all can learn from the comments of others. Fair comments - whether positive or negative - are a very valuable tool in our development as artists/illustrators. Unfortunaty, many of us have big egos that sometimes get bruised by what are objectively fair comments. The bruised sometimes feel they have to defend their work against comments they perceive as unfair. Fine. They should. Now if someone feels their work is constantly under attack, I think they need to step back and try to look at things as objectively as they can. If your threads are full of you defending yourself against attacks like "I think it might look better with a lighter background" then smack yourself in the head hard and get your ego under control!

IMHO most forum participants post images because they want some feedback. They enjoy the confirmation when others enjoy the work, and they genuinely appreciate feedback that might help them improve. I believe 99.9% of the comments made about peoples work here is intended to be confirming or helpful. In that regard I think we are doing pretty well. I know some people read things into other's posts. I say "forget it!" - take all posts at face value and you'll be much happier. Sure, some people (not many) play games at times - don't get suckered! Take all posts at face value and avoid looking for inuindo that might not be (and probably isn't) really there. Don't worry - Be happy!"

Regards, Ross

PS - any comments regarding the level of moderator 'moderation' would be appreciated. Should we for instance be shutting down more threads as they become nasty?

rgremill,

"There are people who will be offended by anything you type. Just breathing is annoying to them."

How true! And it's WRONG to spend one's time frenetically trying to second-guess what will or will not "hurt" some unknown neurotic out there. Speak your mind clearly and briefly - and the rest be damned.


K

Anyone into wips and leather? no smiley face.

Ross, I haven't seen any threads that were nasty enough to shut down.

I knew I could depend upon you :-) (And I am not too proud to append a smiley to a remark that might be misconstrued as sarcasm).

There is nothing wrong with discussion or argument. As long as it is civil. It is a good way to learn and express divergent ideas. Passion is one thing, hostility is quite another.

The problem starts when people begin to get off topic and take pot shots at people personally.

Of course, Klaus, if you started acting in civil manner, to anyone, there would be great cause for alarm and we might have to rush you off to the nearest medical facility for close examination. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img]

Gary

Gary Priester

Moderator Person

<a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~garypriester">
he tub mob relieves</a>

Gary, I defy you to dredge up ONE posting of mine which "takes pot-shots at people" and which exhibits "hostility" and which lack "civility".

I have, for instance, never cursed at anyone here. Nor have I ever sent anyone here a private email, telling them "I have no respect for you as a person" - like you have done to me.

You are confusing brutal, brisque expression of opinion and vigorous objections to notions I consider ridiculous or ignorant with "civility". But I don't entertain such a wishy-washy notion of civility.

I'm 43 years old, and VERY well used to the fact that most people find my forthrightness shocking. But some people LOVE my way of expressing myself - which is proof that they are MY kind of people.

The rest of you are no concern of mine.


K

I can kind of relate to that statement Klaus. Most of my life I was characterized by others as being very direct. And somewhere alone the line I realized that the kind of people who liked it were the kind I liked, and the kind who didn't, weren't. Maybe there's a correlation there...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Gary, I defy you to dredge up ONE posting of mine which "takes pot-shots at people" and which exhibits "hostility" and which lack "civility". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Klaus -- My comments were not directed at you. I stated I have nothing against spirited and passionate discussions. My reference was to some recent threads that turned rather nasty. Some of these threads I take personal responsibilty for and wish not to repeat. I do not need to link to these threads, I think anyobdy reading those posts know threads these were.

You and I are not the only participants in this conference. How you conduct yourself is up to you. I have no intention of telling anyone how to act.

I have only asked people to behave in a civil manner to each other when they discuss things. If you have a problem with this, so be it.

Robert -- There were several recent threads, which were locked from further posts upon the request of the author, which were just plain u-g-l-y. They should have been removed. They serve no practical purpose except to emphasize my point in posting this thread.

Gary

Gary Priester

Moderator Person

<a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~garypriester">
he tub mob relieves</a>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>PS - any comments regarding the level of moderator 'moderation' would be appreciated. Should we for instance be shutting down more threads as they become nasty?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

IMHO, it might be a mistake to close threads down too soon. Sometimes when we've had differences we like to sort things out and let folks know we're friends again!



Peter</p>



Peat Stack or Pete's Tack?</p>

OK, let it be! Back to the drawing board, fellahs!


K

I agree.

My mother used to say-
"If you can't say something nice
don't say it at all."
Somtimes not saying anything can
be just as good a statement.

Brian. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

Briar - My father is fond of saying "It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool - than open it and remove all doubt".

Moms and Dads can be very wise...

Regards, Ross

<a href=http://www.designstop.com/>DesignStop.Com</a>

Mom's saying is morally reprehensible: if people around you are saying ghastly things - say, that Jews are underdogs and should be gassed (and numerous other, much less extreme cases) - then "saying nothing and keeping shut" will, through your silence, imply that you agree. This is largely how evil wins in the world, through the silence of good people in speaking out against bad ideas and actions.

But Dad may well have a point. For some people . . .

K

Say rgremill,
How often are you turned "into" Gary. Is it like "Being John Malkovich" ?? Where is the portal?

Rgds,,,Tad... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

Tad, if I could turn into Gary and have his talent I might consider it, but I would have to be able to stay my age. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

Apparently it is a badge of honor to be turned into Gary. If it happened to Klaus it must be a good thing.

Gary, I must have missed the u-g-l-y threads.

Robert

want to be turned into a man who is about to go kicking and screaming into his 60th year, can barely see the screen anymore, can remember jingles from the 40s and 50s but can't remember what he did two days ago, and is described by his long suffering wife of 27 years as being a certifiable grump? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img]

Gary

Gary Priester

Moderator Person

<a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~garypriester">
he tub mob relieves</a>

According to your profile, Gary, you're already in your sixtieth year (which starts when you turn 59)! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img]

Peter</p>

Peat Stack or Pete's Tack?</p>

Now Peter - that 'splitting hairs' remark about the 60th year was uncalled for! Cleary the old guy is having trouble accepting his advancement into the senior years! You shouldn't rub it in! (sorry Gary - this is so fun I can't resist [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] )

Regards, Ross

<a href=http://www.designstop.com/>DesignStop.Com</a>

he should be grateful he still has hairs to split as well.


Wayne [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

Gary, we are all the same age, just at different time.

Øystein
Recycled teenager

Gary, with the staunch support of your no doubt long-suffering wife, I hereby relinguish the title of "everybody's favorite curmudgeon" - and hand it over to you!


K

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Gary, with the staunch support of your no doubt long-suffering wife, I hereby relinguish the title of "everybody's favorite curmudgeon" - and hand it over to you! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Klaus, you are too kind and too generous.

Actually, 60 is not as old when you finally get there as it seemed when I was 30, or 40, or 50.

Now my 86 year old aunt does not seem to be that old :-)

Gary

Gary Priester

Moderator Person

<a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~garypriester">
Be it ever so humble...</a>